New laptop setup, SSD questions

[blue skies]

I ordered a new laptop that should be delivered tomorrow, and I was hoping someone could answer a few questions for me. This is the laptop I ordered: Buy.com - Toshiba Satellite U845W 14.4" Core i5 6GB Widescreen Ultrabook

Toshiba Satellite U845W-S410 14.4" Widescreen Ultrabook, Intel Core i5-3317U, 6GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, 32GB SSD, Windows 7 Home Premium (64-Bit) - PSU5RU-00Q003

I have never had a SSD before. The Windows 7 will be already installed on the SSD. I was mainly wondering how I go about installing the programs that I use. The SSD is only 32 GB. How much space does the OS take up, and is it advisable to install all or most programs on the SSD (or at least certain programs I use often - Firefox, Thunderbird) - or do those use too much space?

My other question is... I believe Toshiba installs a lot of crapware on their machines. Is it possible to download a clean copy of Windows 7 Home Premium and use the activation key that comes with my notebook to replace the operating system? Or should I just uninstall as much of it as possible?

When I received my current desktop computer, I didn't realize how helpful it would have been to create a partition for just the OS and programs, keeping my data separate. It would have made the backup process much simpler for me. I am hoping to do a better job setting this one up. Any advice or recommendations are appreciated!

 

[blue skies]

I have been searching for more information about SSD/HDD, and came across the advice quoted below to

1. Move the Windows paging file to the HDD
3. Move the Windows restore points off the SSD.

Would either of these be useful and perhaps give me a little extra space for at least a few main programs? I am thinking my email program will be way too big, and Firefox itself might fit, but if I stream a movie or something would it automatically be temporarily saving all that data to the SSD also?

Programs and files on SSD vs HDD for max performance... - config-customize - windows-7
First thing you always want to do if you have your boot disk as SSD and second internal HDD get the Windows paging file off of the SSD. Reasons are that SSDs are expensive, the page file takes up some space but that is neglegeable, the paging file is constantly changing and parts are over written which is bad for an SSD because SSD has shorter life time of rewrites then HDD so the page file is needlessly eating away at parts of your precious SSD.

To do this click start>right click computer>properties>on left side tab click "advanced system settings" you need administrative rights>Performance>go to advanced tab>under virtual memory select "change">uncheck "Automatically manage" at top>now all your partitions should be listed, in this order select a partition on your HDD. Easiest to select system managed because if you don't know what your doing you can degrade windows performance>Now select you SSD partition and pick none.
Remember you did this because later if you want to format and repartition that drive it won't let you until you go back in and re/move page file to a new partition. Forgetting and having to figure out errors causes headaches and I speak from personal experience.

It opens page file up to fragmentation. I just make partition only for page file and if fragmentation is a problem, ill just reformat the partition. No harm done to anything else. If you choose to make partition for page file make it atleast the size of your ram, 1.5 x ram is better go no bigger than 2 x ram or your wasting space, especially if you have a lot of ram and windows doesn't do much paging...


Third is to check for Windows restore points because they can take up lots of space, move them off of your SSD or delete them/disable new ones from being made if you don't need them. I only keep until a little after a windows update or installing new drivers until I am pretty sure everything is running fine, and I typically only keep one. My preference though! I make my own drive images and backup. Google for a tutorial dealing with those restore points, there are tons.

 

[LittleJay]

My other question is... I believe Toshiba installs a lot of crapware on their machines. Is it possible to download a clean copy of Windows 7 Home Premium and use the activation key that comes with my notebook to replace the operating system?

Yes you can. I suggest you read this tutorial which will show you everything you need to know. Just click on the link.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/219487-clean-reinstall-factory-oem-windows-7-a.html

 

[indianacarnie]

32gb will be cutting it pretty close. Remember that you'll want some "free space" also, say 10%? Since it will be coming with the ssd installed already , most of the little things should be taken care of for you. I'd check and see if your hibernation is turned off if I were you. Also, I'd consider just canceling your page file for C. If you're a "regular" user you shouldn't need it with the amount of RAM installed. (always room for more though!)

And yes , you are entirely correct about the amount of crap/bloatware that will come with your Toshiba. I owned one...... I know ...... you'll love your machine after you get all that stuff cleaned up though, I'm sure. Just follow LittleJay's link and all will be revealed to you.

 

[blue skies]

Thank you for the link to the clean install tutorial, LittleJay. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, but I plan to study it. I've never installed an OS before.

Thank you for your reply Indianacarnie. I am assuming that SSD have the same size discrepancy that HDDs have, so that an advertised 32 GB SSD will only give me 29.822 GB of storage space. Ninety percent of that is only 26.840 GB. Microsoft says you need 20 GB for Windows 7. So that gives me very little extra space.

I wonder if Toshiba installed their crapware on the HDD or the SDD?

I am also wondering if I can/should install only 64-Bit programs to the SSD? Does it matter? On my current computer the 32-bit programs are automatically installed in the (x86) folder. I wonder if all the folders will be already set up on both drives?

Should I install MSE on the SSD? Any issue there?

Sorry if any of these are stupid questions. I am still pretty confused about having to separate drives and how it all works together.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[gregrocker]

I wonder if the 32gb SSD isn't intended for a cache file to speed up HD. Those we've seen have all been 32 gb.

We have helped users install Win7 to them, though, so after checking if Win7 is already installed on it, if you want to do so you may need to delete and format it first with our help which is how this has worked before. This causes the booted installer to see the SSD so you can install there.

You may also need to turn off a RAID setting in BIOS (most often by changing SATA controller to AHCI before reinstall) and onboard Intel Rapid Storage technology in some cases. We can get into this more if these come into play.

So it's a challenge to install the OS to the small SSD intended for use as a cache drive but we can help you as we have with about a dozen of these already.

Step 14 in Clean Reinstall - Factory OEM Windows 7 also shows how to link the data easiest from the HDD.

 

[blue skies]

Thank you Gregrocker. I looked at your awesome Clean Install tutorial a little while ago. It is very well done.

You may also have to turn off a RAID setting in BIOS and Intel Rapid Storage technology in some cases.

I have come across these terms before, but I'm not really familiar with them. I also read a bit about small SSDs being used as a cache, but to tell you the truth, it is mostly over my head.

I am getting a little nervous and starting to wonder whether I should just follow your easier: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/219576-clean-up-factory-bloatware.html instead of doing a clean install.

I am curious to see how the computer is set up, and whether Toshiba installed the OS on the 32 gb SSD. I believe that was how it was described in a video review I watched a few days ago, but I'm not certain.

Darn, I wish the SSD that is just a little bit larger. A quick boot time will be nice, but I'm not sure how much of a speed increase I will get if most of my programs are on the HDD.

I don't play any games so that's not an issue. I thought it would be nice to have my browser and media player on the SSD. If I could have Thunderbird on the SSD too, that would be nice, but I would have to have all of the data stored on the HDD. Same with Firefox.

How would I go about making sure that the programs I install on the SSD don't store any big data files on the SSD? Does it depend on whether or not I can tweak each program? Change the destination path for the programs folders? A more global Windows setting I can change? Am I making any sense?

 

[LittleJay]

When you get the new computer, why don't you post a screen shot of your disk management and we can take a look at it, if you like and advise you further.

 

[whs]

When you get the new computer, why don't you post a screen shot of your disk management and we can take a look at it, if you like and advise you further.

That's a good idea because it is not clear whether the OS is really installed on the SSD or whether the SSD is only used as a buffer. A 6GB RAM system with full size pagefile and full size hiberfile would barely fit on 32GBs. But when 'tuned', it will fit easily.

Then 32GB would be plenty for the OS and all programs (no big games though) if done correctly. I have 6 systems with 6 SSDs and they all run around 25GB for the OS, All my programs and the pagefile of 2GBs.

Moving the pagefile is not a good idea. With 6GB of RAM, it will probably hardly be used. I always reduce the pagefile to 2GB. And I also delete the hiberfile completely.

ad3) You cannot move the restore points to another device or partition. That is only possible with the Windows server editions. You can, however, reduce the shadowstorage to nil (which is 300MB).

 

[blue skies]

When you get the new computer, why don't you post a screen shot of your disk management and we can take a look at it, if you like and advise you further.

I will definitely do that.

That's a good idea because it is not clear whether the OS is really installed on the SSD or whether the SSD is only used as a buffer. A 6GB RAM system with full size pagefile and full size hiberfile would barely fit on 32GBs. But when 'tuned', it will fit easily.

Then 32GB would be plenty for the OS and all programs (no big games though) if done correctly. I have 6 systems with 6 SSDs and they all run around 25GB for the OS, All my programs and the pagefile of 2GBs.

Moving the pagefile is not a good idea. With 6GB of RAM, it will probably hardly be used. I always reduce the pagefile to 2GB. And I also delete the hiberfile completely.

ad3) You cannot move the restore points to another device or partition. That is only possible with the Windows server editions. You can, however, reduce the shadowstorage to nil (which is 300MB).

That is all very good to know. It seems I will only be able to use up to 26 GB total, so the fact that you are able to run the OS, all your programs and a 2 GB pagefile gives me a lot of hope.

Thank you for your help!

 

[whs]

But again, the setup in these systems is sometimes very different. So only the Disk Management screenshot will tell us how to proceed..

 

[blue skies]

Here is my disk management screen cap:

 

[whs]

Well, that's as I suspected. The SSD is not even identified as a seperate unit. They put this hiberfile on it (probably for fast boot) and the rest is hidden and probably used as buffer for the HDD.

The setup of the HDD is knid of strange too. I wonder what the idea of this seperate 12GB primary partition is.

 

[gregrocker]

I would not change anything until you scope it out fully to understand exactly what you're dealing with. There are a number of approaches to do this which I'll outline here based on seeing several of these over the past year:

The full 32 gb SSD is not shown. Type CMD in Start Search box, right click to Run as Admin, type Diskpart, then List Disk to see the actual size of all disks onboard. The 32gb may show up there. If so select it using Sel Disk # then Detail part. Grab a screenshot with Snipping Tool.

You may also be able to see more in a map format using free Partition Wizard bootable CD which shows hidden OEM partitions. A camera snap posted back would be helpful.

It may in a be RAID so that it isnt' shown until unRAID'ed. Boot into BIOS setup to check the SATA controller setting. Is it RAID? In the past it had to be changed to AHCI so that 32 gb would show up independently to delete, partition and format with Partition Wizard CD. This makes it visible to the Win7 installer to choose for install.

First thing I would do is make your Recovery disks following the steps in your setup literature or online Manual, or accessing Toshiba Recovery in All Programs to find the app.

I would also call Toshiba Tech Support to ask them where the 32 gb partition is and if it can be used for Win7 install. They may not be forthcoming since they work from scripts that may withhold this information, even warn you that to change this will void your tech support warranty. Just say you're trying to understand your system better but never disclose what you intend to do with your property, even after you've clean reinstalled. If you ever need to ship it back under warranty first run the Recovery disks or a backup image you've made of the factory preinstall.

 

[blue skies]

I would not change anything until you scope it out fully to understand exactly what you're dealing with.

I was determined to try a clean install on my next computer, but I think this situation is just way too complicated for me.

Thanks again to everyone who replied with advice and suggestions. I was expecting the 32 gb SSD to contain the OS and to be very straightforward and accessible. I guess I will have to leave it the way it is, try to remove as much extraneous junk as possible, and just live with that.

I will probably need to remove a lot from the start menu too. This notebook is using a ton of memory even when I don't have any programs open. Stupid Toshiba factory install.

 

[gregrocker]

You can still do a Clean Reinstall - Factory OEM Windows 7 to shed the bloatware and get Win7's native performance. Leave the Toshiba Recovery partition and make your Recovery disks so you have a path back.

Until then I'd Clean Up Factory Bloatware.

 

[whs]

Yeah, Toshiba puts a lot of stuff on their PCs. Just get rid of all that stuff in the startups. You need to keep only the AV program and anything you put there yourself, e.g. Sidebar (gadgets).

Removing things from the startups does not mean that those programs will not run. They will be loaded when called. But if they are out of the startups, you will boot faster and have a smaller RAM footprint at idle.

 

[blue skies]

I went to look at startup, but when I type msconfig in the search box, nothing shows up. I went to look for the folder in PCHEALTH, and it's not there.

 

[whs]

In msconfig, you have to click on the startup tab. But best is to use WinPatrol to manage startups. And that program is also useful to protect your registry. Download WinPatrol 26.1.2013.0 - FileHippo.com

 

[blue skies]

In msconfig, you have to click on the startup tab. But best is to use WinPatrol to manage startups. And that program is also useful to protect your registry. Download WinPatrol 26.1.2013.0 - FileHippo.com

No, I mean I can't even get to msconfig. It's missing on this notebook.

ETA: ok, I just retyped it again after waking it back up, and it finally showed up. I tried so many times before and it just wouldn't show.