Normal service is resumed as Windows 7's growth once again.....

[andrew129260]

:roflmao:

 

[Boozad]

I was a W8 basher after a couple of brief run ins with it trying to help people out, but now I have it installed as a dual boot I've played with it and got it set up so it looks virtually identical to my W7 set up. In that respect I'm warming to it a bit more each week, it's not as bad as I thought it was.

However, it takes work to get there. You have to do a lot of research to get 8 running like 7, and the majority of people who've made the switch are running a third party program to replace the Start button, and that is where I think 8's sales have drastically been hurt. Yes they made the OS to target mobile device users and that UI doesn't translate well to a desktop environment, and while you can poke and prod it to make it like previous versions it's not something MS have blatantly advertised. Many laymen who have used PCs over the years for basic tasks and recreational use aren't going to be digging round looking how to change the OS, they'll simply think that's what they have and they must learn how to use it and that's where they give up.

Of course, word of mouth speaks volumes and that will have hammered sales extremely hard but it's all of MS's own doing. While I don't dislike 8 any more it's still obvious that MS are indeed trying to force the touch screen UI on people through advertising and the lack of information on how to use the OS solely as a desktop environment.

 

[Computer0304]

I used to think Windows 8 would not be good because of the changes but now that I got to use it, I'm used to it and I am getting used to the Start Screen.

 

[A Guy]

I wish it worked like XP 7. I liked the way it worked in XP 7 better. You have to go through several steps to make it work like XP 7. Seems I have seen all this years ago.

Using 8 and discovering you do not like it is one thing, but once you get used to it, and make it work for you (as you did with 7), it can apparently be a great OS. Based on opinions from people who I respect, like Kari. Not liking it for valid reasons is also acceptable. And like Si has said, it's still not selling particularly well so far.

A Guy

 

[Kari]

... and then trying to get back to desktop, which never worked on the first try, or going into metro interface any time I accidently put my mouse on the right edge, with no easy way to go back I mean the list goes on and did I mentioned how ugly and space wasting Metro is. But I totally lost it when I wasted almost an hour downloading win 8.1 upgrade, then wasted another 30 min waiting for computer to update files etc and then I got to the screen asking to input my e-mail. Since I don't have one with MS I pressed skip, which promptly, without any warning revert back to Win 8 and deleted whole 8.1 upgrade download without even asking.
...

LOL.

Yes Siw, I laughed too when I saw the Pete's post; I couldn't have hoped a better example of purposely misleading and wrong information and sometimes simple lies the anti-Eight troops are spreading to falsify the facts.

Let's see that post. First what I have marked with bold red font: If the user is not experienced enough to switch between Start Screen and Desktop by a simple press of the WIN key, or by clicking Desktop tile on Start Screen, then maybe Windows (any version) is simply too much and user should find a system better suitable to his / her capacities.

About the bold green statement in above quote of Pete's post: Switching between Start Screen and Desktop does not happen when you bring the pointer to right edge. Never. It does not even happen when pointer is brought to left edge. It only happens when user clicks left mouse button when pointer is located at the bottom left corner. Even the Charms Bar does not show when the mouse is brought to top or bottom right without user thereafter clearly moving pointer up or down.

I repeat: Bottom left, not right edge. And no, it does not switch to Start Screen simply by bringing the pointer there. Never.

Then the clear untruth (can't use here the word I would like to), the part I have highlighted yellow. That is so invalid, false disinformation that it together with the strange "bringing mouse to right edge brings Start Screen" (real name for so called Metro UI) makes me wonder if this user has ever even seen Eight in action. There is no Skip button when setting it up, and the upgrade does not revert back to 8 without user actions and notifying the user.

If we users do not read instructions, we cannot blame Microsoft or any other company.

Let's see what happens when a Windows 8 with only Local account (no email based Microsoft account in the whole machine) is upgraded to 8.1. I did this just now to get screenshots to prove my point.

First the start situation, only one local account, no Microsoft accounts:

​

After 28 minutes, the over 2 GB upgrade was downloaded and installed. Reboot, 16 minutes for upgrade to set itself up, finally there:

​

Next screen asks if I want to go with defaults or change something small (customer feedback options and such can be disabled / enabled here):

​

Next screen asks me to sign to my Microsoft account, which I do not want to use in this machine, so naturally I select what Windows documentation asks me to select at this point:

​

Which brings me to screen where I can tell Windows I want to continue using my existing (local) account:

​

That's it, Windows 8 upgraded to 8.1 in about 50 minutes (including the download time), absolutely no SKIP buttons there. Only the four screens shown above are shown after first reboot when 8.1 upgrade is applied.

Again, I repeat: Absolutely sure there are no dialogs showing a SKIP button which can cause you to lose the upgrade.

I hope those users still not sure if they want to upgrade to Windows 8 can and will use their own brain and see through this disinformation spread on the Internet.

Kari

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Actually W8.1 update 1 is not too bad at all -- there is a LOT of difference between W8 and the latest 8.1 with its updates so when people are writing about W8 they should make sure it's the LATEST version -- the Native (Original) W8 is actually now OBSOLETE.

You do though need a few bits of effort to get it to work if you are primarily a desktop type user - but as it now can boot straight to desktop that's not an issue any more --and you can use CUSTOM TOOLBARS as well as the quick launch bar and desktop short cuts so you can make W8.1 behave almost identically to W7 if you want.

Unless you have zillions of apps not having the START menu isn't really an issue any more --even with W7 I used custom toolbars in preference to the start menu.

My main complaints are - that unless you know the "get arounds" you need to create an Ms account, you need to input the serial number at install time (so no 30 day testing / etc until you get the config correct) and no ISO's (Grrrhhhhhh). (Retail copies have the ISO but not pre-installed versions).

Not having an ISO means you have to do updates via the wretched store thing so doing a clean re-install becomes very cumbersome. If you intend to use W8.1 it's worth getting a retail copy even if your machine comes pre-installed with W8.

If you can overcome these obstacles W8.1 runs often a lot slicker than W7, has native in built security and you know it's getting the latest security updates. Note also that those desktop themes you created for W7 will work on W8. The converse isn't true however.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[lffoar]

Remind me to never get between Kari and a bone :mad2:

 

[Boozad]

Unless you have zillions of apps not having the START menu isn't really an issue any more --even with W7 I used custom toolbars in preference to the start menu.

That's the one area I'd beg to differ on. OK, if people used custom toolbars on W7 then no problem, carry on as usual. But for people who do use the Start Menu religously then there's a big difference. I was completely lost without it so bought Start8 virtually straight away, it's now how I like it and it cost me $5. While there are alternatives to not having a Start button, you don't have to use them and learn a new way of interacting with your desktop.

 

[Britton30]

Remind me to never get between Kari and a bone :mad2:

True, Kari (and myself) get a 'bit' ruffled when opinions are presented as fact. If you have Win 8.x, maybe try a local PC tech for assistance. My neighbor just got a Win 8 lappy and I installed ClassicShell and she loves it, boots right to the desktop. Start8 is a paid-for option that does basically the same thing.

Try either one, it seems you've not really done anything.

 

[Anshad Edavana]

Personally i have no issues with the new interface of "Windows 8" and actually i like it. But in my experience, 8 seems to be less stable than 7. After testing 8 on a wide variety of hardware ( ranging from Pentium dual core to core i7 ), i decided to stick with the rock solid "Windows 7" as my primary OS .

 

[Windows Sniper]

Remind me to never get between Kari and a bone :mad2:

But what Kari has said holds a lot of truth..


I have had Windows 8 installed since PR, it has now gotten to the point that I am happy with where everything is, i even gave up using the start menu 'fixes' because it became a waste of time.


At the end of the day, after all the bashing that it was given i do find Win8 to be a quick and responsive system, and i like the fact i don't need to search for drivers for everything! It comes down to humans as a whole, hating change. I believe windows 8 is better than 7 because of the tweaks to the os (ignoring metro).


But you will still find me on the 7 forums, helping here. Because this is where the majority of users problems will be displayed.

 

[Anshad Edavana]

To my understanding, it is not the lack of start menu but Microsoft's dumbest decisions like hiding shutdown button, safe mode etc pissed off most users. In additions to that, UEFI and "SecureBoot" made multi-booting very difficult even for tech savvy people.

 

[Windows Sniper]

To my understanding, it is not the lack of start menu but Microsoft's dumbest decisions like hiding shutdown button, safe mode etc pissed off most users. In additions to that, UEFI and "SecureBoot" made multi-booting very difficult even for tech savvy people.

The first two points they addressed after release in 8.1..

I have had no problems multibooting to XP / 7 / 8, there is a boot manager program which is very good at fixing boot paths (BootDr, Or something? I can't remember)...

So it's not like MS didn't listen, even though they only listened to try and increase profits...

 

[TVeblen]

 

[Anshad Edavana]

I have had no problems multibooting to XP / 7 / 8, there is a boot manager program which is very good at fixing boot paths (BootDr, Or something? I can't remember)...

For a custom desktop which uses MBR partition scheme that is true but what about the vast majority of branded PC and laptops which uses UEFI and "SecureBoot" ?. It is still possible to install newest "SecureBoot" compatible Linux distros along with 8 but the process is not easy even for experienced users.

On some laptops it is possible to disable UEFI and enable "legacy" mode to install custom OS but due to pressure from Microsoft, recently manufacturers are started to sell "Windows 8" locked laptops which won't install any other OS even if "SecureBoot" is disabled.

Acer Aspire XC-603G-UW31 Windows Downgrade Problem.

 

[Windows Sniper]

I have had no problems multibooting to XP / 7 / 8, there is a boot manager program which is very good at fixing boot paths (BootDr, Or something? I can't remember)...

For a custom desktop which uses MBR partition scheme that is true but what about the vast majority of branded PC and laptops which uses UEFI and "SecureBoot" ?. It is still possible to install newest "SecureBoot" compatible Linux distros along with 8 but the process is not easy even for experienced users.

On some laptops it is possible to disable UEFI and enable "legacy" mode to install custom OS but due to pressure from Microsoft, recently manufacturers are started to sell "Windows 8" locked laptops which won't install any other OS even if "SecureBoot" is disabled.

Acer Aspire XC-603G-UW31 Windows Downgrade Problem.

I'm sorry this detracts from the thread,

But that is down right atrocious!


What would happen if you wanted to upgrade to windows9 (if it ever happens)? If you need to reinstall windows 8 due to a fault?

 

[Anshad Edavana]

I'm sorry this detracts from the thread,

But that is down right atrocious!

What would happen if you wanted to upgrade to windows9 (if it ever happens)? If you need to reinstall windows 8 due to a fault?

We are still on the subject mate. I was just trying to point out why 8 failed to meet the sales expectations.

Only god and Microsoft knows what they are going to do with "Windows 9".

 

[Layback Bear]

Folks I will in a short post try to explain.

My poke and go phrase came from watching Microsoft commercials and the opinion I gathered by watching them.
In my opinion Microsoft is reaching out for such people. (poke and go)

That does not mean that you can't use Windows 8.xx on a desktop or any way you please to. Many use it on their desktop and like it.

I have never seen a Microsoft commercial that show the use of a mouse and or keyboard. All the commercials show touch screens so I must assume that is the crowd Microsoft is reaching out for.

Is Windows 8.xx much more than a touch screen; absolutely and lots of members here have proven that.

Watch Microsoft's commercials and make your own opinion on who Microsoft is reaching out for with Windows 8.xx.

 

[gregrocker]

MS needs to come home to Win7, its most successful product, the most successful OS of all time, and one of the greatest achievements in tech history. It shows no signs of age, yet badly needs a SP2 for USB3 drivers alone, and could benefit from some of the popular improvements in 8 like the Task Manager and Explorer copy graphing.

The gambit of creating an all-in-one OS for both touch and mouse use has utterly failed, mainly due to poor execution and absurd assumptions that the desktop - where the productive work that drives the global economy is done - is dying. Instead Win8 became the catalyst for this - murder if you ask me.

If consumers want a touchscreen tablet or laptop then Win8 will work fine for them or they can get the real Ipad, but focus first on the desktop and laptop and come home to Win7, Microsoft, before it is too late. To pretend that Win8 is the future when all of business and most consumers are migrating off XPired to Win7 is foolishness worthy of a Saturday Night Live parody, which may be next if you don't come home soon to the best OS ever.

We need Win7 upgrades for all consumers stuck with 8 on their new laptops and desktops, distributed freely through the OEM's and retail stores. Then 8 should be rebranded for touch. Win7 w/SP2 retail copies put back on sale and not hidden. What company would take their most popular product off sale just when it's growth is spiking?

 

[ThrashZone]

You know it's kind of interesting to me anyway

When I first got win-7 I didn't have to do anything and I got one of the first upgrade disks from the manufacture,

Point being I still have not done any real tweaks,
Only one in the beginning to kill auto sort long enough to drag my files around and rename them in bulk with win-explorer,

I can't imagine having to use most of the tweaks to get to a win-7 display in win-8,
But it's nice to know the tweaks exist
Time cures all voids,
Some day win-8.... will be used by me but that's not in the near future,
Cheers.