Over-clocking/Warranty

[seekermeister]

Your comments regarding the idea of the CPUs shutting themselves off, before overheating is interesting, because when I first started in computers...not all that long ago, AMD processors were known to be very vulnerable to heat, and could fry in a couple of minutes, in the case of a fan failure. If current CPUs are smarter, I'm glad. Despite the fact that you want to drop heat from the equation, I have yet to understand how that can be done, regardless of how you have spun it.

While I have no doubt that they could quite aptly diagnose a problem, if they really applied themselves to it, I have far less faith in them than you apparently have. It may be unfair, but the fact that AMD returned a processor to me, after finding that it was okay, the fact that they sent it back with a severely bent pin, which was in the middle of the pins, in a fashion that I do not believe would have occurred, unless done intentionally, leaves me with a lower opinion of them.

 

[Fumz]

Is that what you think I'm doing... "spinning" you? :sarc:

Please Google "thermal throttling", then "cpu shutdown temp" since my word is no good. You can also check your bios' health section and set the temp yourself if the default is too high.

Yes, AMD just recently got around to implementing this. Btw, it was 8 seconds for an AMD chip to fry without a heatsink, not minutes. Intel has had this built in safety feature for quite some time.

After you find that cpu's throttle down and shut down when they get too hot, then you'll understand why heat is not a factor in killing cpus.

 

[sygnus21]

I have to agree with Fumz regarding voltage killing a CPU without showing signs of heat. Remember it's said that static electricity can kill electronic components, and we know that doesn't push a lot of "heat"

Also, (I can't speak for AMD as I've never owned one), Intel's CPU will throttle back if the heat gets to be a bit much for them. To see this you only have to look at Prime95 along with Real Temp and you will see workers shut down as the heat buildup gets to be a bit much, you'll also notice the load drop from 100% down.

Also over the long run too much voltage will eventually wear out the electrical components and cause them to fail, this may not show up to the naked eye as heat damage - the chip may look as pristine as the day you got it, take it apart and look inside though, and who knows what you'll see.

Anyway

Desktop processors produced using the Intel® NetBurst™ micro-architecture have a feature called thermal monitoring which allows the processor to modulate its core power to stay within its specified thermal envelope. Additional information is available in the features section of the product datasheets:

Processors — Processor performance effect due to thermal throttling - though it lists older processors some form of thermo throttling is used in the newer ones as well.

Here's a thread here discussing the subject..... Intel Thermal Throttling - Automatic? - AnandTech Forums

As to the faith that Intel/AMD can examine a processor - you may have had a bad experience, but that doesn't mean they don't have the tools to do the job.

Anyway the only way to know if your overclocked item will be warranted if the overclock kills it is to try it should the need arise. Some will succeed, some will fail. It's the nature of the beast.

My two cents.

 

[seekermeister]

Anyway the only way to know if your overclocked item will be warranted if the overclock kills it is to try it should the need arise. Some will succeed, some will fail. It's the nature of the beast.

This is precisely why I have never over-clocked any computer, because I have always thought that that I might, once the warranty had run out, but by that time, I was thinking about upgrading, and over-clocking no longer seemed interesting.

 

[sygnus21]

Honestly most PC enthusiasts who overclock (me included) don't really hold on to their components for a long time anyway.

Me, I usually do major upgrades (MB, CPU, RAM) about every 3 years, then move old the parts over to another system or put them away, I usually don't sell my old parts.

Anyway I'm a conservative overclocker so I don't really push too far beyond the limits - for example I see lots of folks pushing their i7-900 series processors to 4+gig. I have my i7-950 (3.06gig) pushed to 3.8 as I find that's a happy medium for my RAM, voltage, and temps. Sure I could run at 4gig but that would require more volts, and heat.

As for my GPU, I usually don't overclock those. Just something I never really got into.

Anyway any time you overclock you risk damaging the hardware and voiding your warranty.

My two cents.

 

[LiquidSnak]

Anyway any time you overclock you risk damaging the hardware and voiding your warranty.

Well said.

Read the warranty very well, then purchase the product if you want to overclock. AFAIK no processors are warrantied against overclock usage.

 

[GeneO]

Anyway the only way to know if your overclocked item will be warranted if the overclock kills it is to try it should the need arise. Some will succeed, some will fail. It's the nature of the beast.

This is precisely why I have never over-clocked any computer, because I have always thought that that I might, once the warranty had run out, but by that time, I was thinking about upgrading, and over-clocking no longer seemed interesting.

But you wouldn't need to upgrade if you had overclocked

 

[Wishmaster]

Im a pretty conserative Overclocker myself I think.

I mean, when I first build a new rig, I may push it a bit in the first few days to see what its capable of & paly around with it a bit... but then I back everything down.

My Q9650 has been running at 3.6Ghz (400FSB) since Ive had it. Thats really not that huge of a OC, but a good 24/7 OC I think.
Especially considering there are times my CPU works at full load for days without a break.
Thats also a OC that these CPU hit easily, and a good 98% even on the stock voltages.

 

[seekermeister]

This conversation has caused me to think about something that I thought that I never would...third party insurance policies. I scanned over the ad for one yesterday, and the only thing that was said that might pertain to this was something to the effect that it covered all problems IF PROPERLY USED. That leaves a lot of room for interpretation, but I'm fairly sure that they would deny coverage if there was overt signs of over-clocking damage. However, I suspect that they might be less able to test to the depth that the manufacturers are able to.

Of course, one doesn't really know what the provisions are actually in their contract, until you buy one.

 

[sygnus21]

I myself don't do third party warranties but whatever warranty there is, to me, unless there are obvious signs of tampering or user abuse, it's going to be hard to prove the user did the damage.

Years ago I was experimenting with a BIOS file for my GPU, long story short the GPU developed problems and I was able to have it replaced under warranty.

No one knows how you are using your equipment unless you tell them, or the item clearly shows signs of abuse.

You asked if overclocking voids a warranty and the answer is yes; but the real question is how can they tell? To me unless there are obvious signs I don't think they can.

My two cents.

 

[Mellon Head]

I'm not 100% certain because I've never tried it, but if you pop the heat shield off of the CPU and then X-Ray the die, someone skilled in the chip's architecture could probably tell if the CPU was overvolted.

Since semiconductor foundries routinely X-Ray and use electron microscopes on chips for QC purposes, I don't think it would be hard for someone at Intel or AMD to X-Ray a returned chip.

Now, whether they would really do it, I don't know, but they do have the tools at their disposal.

 

[sygnus21]

I seriously doubt the RMA department is going to that extensive in examining returned chips. Unless there are obvious signs, or a strong suspicion, they're just going to do a quick exam, maybe a test or two, and move on.

 

[Mellon Head]

I seriously doubt the RMA department is going to that extensive in examining returned chips. Unless there are obvious signs, or a strong suspicion, they're just going to do a quick exam, maybe a test or two, and move on.

Oh definitely. They might trot it out if they had a specific user/company returning chips frequently, but you're right. I doubt they would do it for just anyone, or make it a regular occurrence, but they do have the gear.