Solved PSU went up in smoke. New PSU won't boot PC

[Mellon Head]

It's out of warranty. So I guess buying a new board would be the wise thing to do, right?

Any suggestions for an AM3+ board with SATA 3 headers? My last one had SATA 2, so I am thinking if I get a new board, I might as well get one with SATA 3 headers since I use an SSD as my system drive

Thanks a lot

I have one of these and it's rock solid as long as you're not overclocking:

ASUS M5A97 R2.0 AM3+ AMD 970 + SB 950 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS - Newegg.ca

Maybe that's available in India.

Also, these might be worth a look depending on your budget:

ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0 AM3+ AMD 990FX + SB950 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS - Newegg.ca

ASUS M5A99X EVO R2.0 AM3+ AMD 990X + SB950 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS - Newegg.ca

I prefer ASUS boards myself, as I've had the best luck with them. Others may have other good suggestions.

 

[bigmck]

I am also an ASUS fan. They make good boards. Can you do Online Ordering in India? Newegg.com is good if you can do that.

 

[RoasterMen]

I just have seen that CM Elite power supply fail in this video:

 

[IoNGeNeRaL]

Components burning? That's absurd.

If anything, you may overheat your PSU if you're overloading it which will severely reduce it's lifespan. As it's been mentioned before, watch for computer crashes while you're working or playing games. Without enough amperage, or if the voltage drops below it's threshold, the motherboard won't function and processing will stop.

Best case scenario if the PSU wattage is insufficient is that the PSU will shut itself down to protect itself. Worst case scenario would be damage to other components and/or the PSU itself. Normally an overloaded PSU will cause a lot of system instability.

I'd personally recommend the Corsair AX1200W PSU if you can afford it. Though usually (as I have that PSU) my PSU fan doesn't kick in unless it reaches a temp of 50°C. When the temperatures are below 50°C, the fan never kicks in even if I'm playing GTA V (which is at full graphics settings) with an over locked CPU and GPU.

My specs:
Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z
AMD Phenom II X6
Radeon R9 280X 3GB
128GB OCZ SSD, 3 HDDs (2x500GB, 1x 1TB)

My system runs flawlessly when it doesn't BSOD but those aren't occasional and aren't due to any power supply issues.

 

[westom]

They checked the mobo for a while and said that it has been short circuited and apparently it was giving shocks.

Impossible. Only voltages connected to a motherboard are 3.3, 5, and 12 volts. None of those shocks anyone. Otherwise a 12 volt battery in a car is also electrocuting many people.

If a motherboard was shorted, then PSU's fold back current limiting had shut off power. So nothing could exist to cause shocks.

It is always a first indication of deceit. If motherboard was short circuited, then the short circuited voltage was defined. Did they provide that number? If not, suspect the worst.

And finally, if it was short circuited, then they could not check it for a while. It would not work immediately. That short circuit would be obvious and defined in 20 seconds with a meter.

I watch auto repair shops do same to women. Claim a bunch of mumbo-jumbo knowing they can talk that woman into anything. Either a motherboard is short circuited - meaning a PSU shuts off immediately. Or it is magically generating well over 100 volts from a not shorted 3.3, 5, or 12 volts. What they said was so wrong for so many reasons that incompetence or intentional scam is obvious.

If a motherboard was defective, then they also said nothing on that motherboard can be repaired. Even a good motherboard manufacturer knows it is cheaper to shred a defective motherboard and build a new one. Why shred? Because better electronic manufacturers do not want their product rescued from a dumpster to be repaired by some third party operation. That only harms that manufacturer's reputation.

Facts are clear. Nobody has defined a defect. What was said about that motherboard cannot possibly exist. So you will shotgun. Replace good parts until something works. Because no one has yet said what part is defective.

 

[chefduane]

It's out of warranty. So I guess buying a new board would be the wise thing to do, right?

Any suggestions for an AM3+ board with SATA 3 headers? My last one had SATA 2, so I am thinking if I get a new board, I might as well get one with SATA 3 headers since I use an SSD as my system drive

Thanks a lot

I have one of these and it's rock solid as long as you're not overclocking:

ASUS M5A97 R2.0 AM3+ AMD 970 + SB 950 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS - Newegg.ca

Maybe that's available in India.

I prefer ASUS boards myself, as I've had the best luck with them. Others may have other good suggestions.

+1 on the M5A97 R2.0. No problems and solid as the rock since the day I first powered it up. I am not doing any OC. See "My System Specs" for the details on my rig.

 

[probuddha]

Thanks so much for your responses, guys.

Frankly, I do not trust the service center where I have given the mobo for repairing but I gave it to them to primarily identify which component is faulty. They checked my mobo with and without my RAM sticks and with their own PSU and even then the system didn't display anything on the screen. Then they zeroed it down to the motherboard itself. I called them today and they said that the parts of the motherboard in charge of power and display has been affected but they have not yet been able to repair them. Honestly, I don't trust them but at least now I know that the issue is with the motherboard.

I can do online ordering in India but don't think newegg.com would be shipping here and even if they did, it would cost a lot more than what I'll have to pay to buy from Amazon India or other online stores. In fact, the ASUS M5A97 is available at brick and mortar pc shops for around $95

I had used an ASUS board myself in my previous build and never had any problem with it. So yes, I am thinking of going back to ASUS. The only concern I have is whether my low end ATI Radeon HD 5450 1GB GPU would be compatible with the board.

Also guys, from what I have described above, do you also feel that it's the motherboard that's at fault
I don't want to end up buying a new board and later find out that the fault is with something else. I know it's not easy to pin point the defect remotely but going by the symptoms, do you feel that there is a fair chance of the mobo going defunct?

So much thanks for all your help so far. Really appreciate it.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Also guys, from what I have described above, do you also feel that it's the motherboard that's at fault
I don't want to end up buying a new board and later find out that the fault is with something else. I know it's not easy to pin point the defect remotely but going by the symptoms, do you feel that there is a fair chance of the mobo going defunct?

"going defunct"???

You are confusing me.

I thought you already had decided the motherboard was at fault and defunct or at least not worth any attempted repair.

Is there ANYTHING that leads you to believe it is NOT effectively defunct right now, as opposed to "going defunct"?

You can't get any onscreen display.

You have no indication of hard drive activity.

CPU fan spins

All connections are believed to be proper.

A local shop says the motherboard "has been affected".

You can spend hundreds or thousands if you want to drill down to the molecular level of the board to find out the sordid details. That's up to you.

Without sophisticated equipment, a high degree of technical knowledge, or lavish spending on diagnosis/repair, you have to make inferences and swap parts.

If your local shops are liars and thieves, there's nothing we can do about it. You have to do your best to diagnose the problem and decide on the next step without their input.

If you don't have bad cabling, a bad CPU, or a bad power supply, you are pretty much forced to conclude it's a motherboard issue. Bad CPUs are very rare. You say a swapped in good power supply did not improve the situation.

You should get some onscreen display even without RAM or hard drives.

As far as what replacement board to get, I wouldn't get in a lather over it. You can easily find as many horror stories as you want about any brand you can name. Cross your fingers and buy any of the top 3 or 4 brands that has the features you need and is within your budget.

Get a decent PSU in the 500 to 550 watt category. That's enough for pretty much any single video card system.

 

[probuddha]

Thanks for your response. Sorry for confusing you as I myself was a bit confused (being a non technical person). Thanks for clearing it up for me.

I will probably settle for an ASUS board based on above recommendations and my past experience with the brand.

Thank you very much

 

[probuddha]

Get a decent PSU in the 500 to 550 watt category. That's enough for pretty much any single video card system.

I have already purchased a 600 watt PSU. Thanks

 

[bigmck]

One thing to be aware of is the motherboard might be bad, but other things might have been affected also. Not trying to be the bearer of bad news, but the motherboard might not be the only that that was fried.

 

[westom]

One thing to be aware of is the motherboard might be bad, but other things might have been affected also. Not trying to be the bearer of bad news, but the motherboard might not be the only that that was fried.

He is spot on. Never assume good or bad is defined by something working or not working. Reality is more complex. Learning how to fix things technical also teaches realities of everything else in life.

A good power supply can act defective in an otherwise perfectly good computer. A defective supply can still boot and run a computer. Other items may have been affected. That concept is called overstress.

Can anyone honestly answer your questions? No. Hard facts are not provided. Without numbers, then every answer can only be wild speculation.

A first post said get a meter and request some instructions. Make sure all parts remain connected and unchanged. Then use that meter and instructions to obtain some three digit numbers. Then a next reply exonerates or accuses each specific part - without wild speculation. Without phrases such as 'maybe' oir 'did you try'. An engineer who designed this stuff cannot provide assistance. Your replies are only as useful as information that you provide. No numbers means speculation. "It might be ...".

BTW, removing RAM was completely unrelated to your computer's symptoms. As made obvious had the shop used a meter.

A power 'system' has many components including a power controller. That controller decides when a PSU can power off, power on, and even when the CPU is permitted to operate. Is that power controller defective? Or does it get some input that says, "Do not start?". Or does it get some input that does not ask it to start? All these questions are layman simple. Had meter numbers been provided, then every question would have been answered by conclusions from hard facts. And you would have learned what a computer really does.

At this point, keep buying new parts until something works. You are doing what one would do without asking for help. Shotgun. You do not even know if a motherboard is defective. And never learned why failure happened - how to avert future failure. See that second paragraph. A good motherboard can act defective in an otherwise good computer. Shotgunning can fix a defect or only cure symptoms. Best (as in everything in life) is to see a defect before fixing it. Before disconnecting anything. That means perspective (ie numbers).

A final point. Always learn from mistakes. Mistakes are the source of most knowledge.

 

[probuddha]

Thanks for your suggestions. I brought the motherboard back from the local shop where they again did a round of tests with and without my RAM and the results were the same. They even tried with a different stick and there was no display. They tried my GPU, on board graphics, nothing worked. So it finally zeroes down to the motherboard or the CPU. I will try out with a new board and see what happens. Will keep you guys posted.

Keeping fingers crossed.

 

[westom]

Thanks for your suggestions. I brought the motherboard back from the local shop where they again did a round of tests with and without my RAM and the results were the same. They even tried with a different stick and there was no display.

So they did not observe what was relevant. They did not use a meter for 30 seconds to learn what exists. Then kept removing or swapping parts (ie RAM) that are totally unrelated to the power 'system'. Absolutely no reason to cross fingers. If they did not use a meter, then they have no idea how electricity works.

Everything remains suspect. Nothing has been exonerated.

Why would a CPU not execute? A CPU cannot do anything until the power controller lets it work. What is necessary to see what a power controller is doing? A meter. No way around that hard reality. Is the CPU defective, or a special power supply that power the CPU defective, or power controller defective, or power controller sees something else that is defective? Everything remains on a list of suspects. Nothing has exonerated a PSU.

Reminds me of a scene from Casablanca. "Major Strasser has been shot... round up the usual suspects."

 

[bigmck]

Thanks for your suggestions. I brought the motherboard back from the local shop where they again did a round of tests with and without my RAM and the results were the same. They even tried with a different stick and there was no display.

So they did not observe what was relevant. They did not use a meter for 30 seconds to learn what exists. Then kept removing or swapping parts (ie RAM) that are totally unrelated to the power 'system'. Absolutely no reason to cross fingers. If they did not use a meter, then they have no idea how electricity works.

Everything remains suspect. Nothing has been exonerated.

Why would a CPU not execute? A CPU cannot do anything until the power controller lets it work. What is necessary to see what a power controller is doing? A meter. No way around that hard reality. Is the CPU defective, or a special power supply that power the CPU defective, or power controller defective, or power controller sees something else that is defective? Everything remains on a list of suspects. Nothing has exonerated a PSU.

Reminds me of a scene from Casablanca. "Major Strasser has been shot... round up the usual suspects."

He has a new PSU. We have moved past that for the moment.

 

[townsbg]

He has a new PSU. We have moved past that for the moment.

Does that mean that it is any good? Manufacturers have been known to release bad parts or it might have already been damaged somehow. IMO simply stating that something is new isn't enough. I agree with westom in that until it is tested by a meter all we can do is speculate.

 

[probuddha]

Agreed that the new PSU could be a dud but when the system was checked with another PSU, it gave the same results
So we can rule out the PSU to be the culprit here

 

[bigmck]

Agreed that the new PSU could be a dud but when the system was checked with another PSU, it gave the same results
So we can rule out the PSU to be the culprit here

I doubt if it is bad, but to find out, hook the PSU to your DVD drive. press the button on the drive and see if it opens.

 

[Mellon Head]

A meter can fool you too. It's not always a clear cut case.

1. You can test an unloaded PSU and determine that the voltages are all there, but one or more disappears or falls greatly under load either due to a fault in the PSU, or a short on the motherboard or somewhere else in the system.

2. A component on the motherboard or other item could be burned "open" and not shorted. A shorted component will cause the voltage to drop to zero or nearly zero, whereas an open component will cause the voltage output from the PSU to read normally (assuming it read normally unloaded).

What we know so far:

- The graphics card and RAM are not the source of the problem. They have been swapped out and there has been no change to the operation of the computer.

- The computer will not boot using a presumably working supply in the computer shop, nor will it work with a brand new supply. I'm not saying that the brand new supply is not defective, but it is unlikely that both it and the repair shop's PSU is defective at the same time.


What we don't know:

- Does the computer at least beep when started up?

- Are there any burned smells either from the motherboard or from the old power supply?

- Are there any burned or scorched marks on the motherboard itself? Do the regulator components around the CPU look burned or bubbled?

- Are the capacitors on the motherboard swollen or puffy? Or ruptured?

These are all things that I would ask in the absence of a meter, since the OP may not have one, or may not have access to/know how to use one. I would not depend on the repair shop to do a competent job of investigating the problem.

Judging by the symptoms described by the OP, I would tend to suspect the motherboard. Given that the voltage regulation circuitry is the first thing encountered when the PSU comes into the board, a failure in the PSU could have caused the voltage regulation circuitry on the motherboard to fail for either of the 5V and 3.3V lines, or both. Either one will prevent the motherboard from booting. An extreme failure will compromise components by burning them.

One of the first things you do before working on a damaged circuit with a meter is to unhook the power and use your eyes and nose. Look and smell for burning. Then hook up the power. Shorted or compromised components can pop or burn, causing further damage or injury.

And probuddha, your Radeon card will work with any motherboard you select, as long as it hasn't been damaged.

 

[probuddha]

Thank you so much Mellon Head for your advise.

Let me answer the questions you have asked above:


- Does the computer at least beep when started up?

No, not anymore


- Are there any burned smells either from the motherboard or from the old power supply?

The guy at the computer repair shop told me that he got some burnt smell on the motherboard. As for the PSU, let alone the smell, I could already see the charred and puffed capacitors inside.


Are there any burned or scorched marks on the motherboard itself? Do the regulator components around the CPU look burned or bubbled?

Not that I have noticed myself.

I will be going to a computer shop today and get a new motherboard and hopefully it will put things in order.

Also, one vital question to ask you guys

How can I prevent this from happening again? My pc wasn't hooked on to an UPS but I was using a surge protection strip (which clearly didn't do its job well)

Should I get a UPS or a voltage stabilizer?

Kindly advise

Thanks again