random reboots without BSOD - sometimes several daily

[Layback Bear]

Just try another mouse. A non Logitech mouse.

Remove the Logitech mouse driver and program. Plug in the other mouse and let Windows load the driver.
Next time you leave the computer on; when you come back activate the screen using the keyboard.
Don't touch the mouse at that time.

Telling us what you think is or is not the problem is not helping. Please just follow the instructions and report back the results. If it was easy to figure out we would of been done 50 post back.
We only have the information in your post to work with.

We need to know exactly what you have done whether we requested it or not and the results.
You are are eyes and hears. We are on the other end of the internet and can't see or hear nothing about your computer.

 

[essenbe]

Plus, the Logitech mouse will work fine with no drivers from Logitech. But, like you say, you can't program certain functions without the software But, it will work as well as any mouse with no software.

 

[tgfyhre]

Okay here's what I've been doing:

I uninstalled the logitech driver and setpoint, and shutdown since the mouse stopped functioning. I plugged in my standard generic wired mouse and restarted the PC. I also uninstalled all my Paragon software.

PC ran for a couple hours okay before this. Shortly after more reboots started. I then re-enabled driver verifier and it started throwing up BSOD for my pivot software (which came with my HP monitor and allows my monitor to pivot vertically), and then it threw up a BSOD for an Avira driver (I use Avira free antivirus which just updated to a newer version about a week ago).

But then it went into another series of reboots, and that got me thinking: since the PC reboots sometimes before the Windows logo even appears, and sometimes just seconds after power on, and sometimes even in bios, and even once using memtest+, I'm starting to doubt it is a driver issue.

I'm almost ready to just give up and DBAN my entire drive after backing up some files. I'm still wondering if I have some nasty boot-time virus or something. I have an old Paragon backup image but it's very old and all my software in that backup is ancient now since I've updated lots of my software since then and it's a pain to re-configure all my software just how I like, so I've been praying I won't need to do that. I still have no idea what's going on but my backup was made before these issues ever started so if it's a boot-time virus or other non-hardware issue then I imagine the DBAN and re-imaging with the Paragon backup should do the trick. If it reboots after all that then it must be hardware right? From what I understand DBAN will wipe my MBR and all sectors except re-mapped sectors so it should wipe all traces of any nasty virus or other unwanted drivers or whatnot.

 

[tgfyhre]

BTW, is my memory running in spec here now? CPU-Z says:

NB Frequency is 2138.0 MHz
DRAM Frequency - 534.5 MHz
FSB DRAM - 2:8
CAS# Latency - 8.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# Delay - 8 clocks
RAS# Precharge - 8 clocks
Cycle time - 20 clocks
Row Refresh Cycle Time - 59 clocks
Command Rate - 1T

The memory is DDR3 1600. I can't use XMP settings in my BIOS because when I try it sets my CPU voltage in the red danger zone for over-voltage for some reason. It's always done this. I set my BIOS to defaults when I removed my overclock settings last week. Is the memory running at proper speeds here? I know earlier it was mentioned that it was running out of spec but since then I removed my overclock and reset to defaults.

 

[tgfyhre]

- Could this be a significant breakthrough?

I decided to shut down my PC after the last reboot and unplugged my hard drive sata plug. I left the power connected but no sata connection so the OS wouldn't boot, as the motherboard couldn't see it. Then I left the PC running at the screen where it says no OS or media found.

Within just a few minutes the PC rebooted like it always does!

So this should mean that it's got to be a hardware issue, either the power supply or the motherboard, correct? This should rule out drivers, corrupted system files, and boot-time viruses, since the hard drive wasn't even connected. Does this make sense?

So then a DBAN is pointless, as it seems to be pointing back to hardware. Does this sound correct?

I'd still like to know if that memory is running at proper settings though, just in case I have it configured incorrectly.

 

[essenbe]

First, your memory is running out of spec. You can look at the SPD tab and see what timings and voltage is in spec for each frequency. It will run fine at whatever you need it to run as long as the timings match the frequency and voltage You can set your bios to manual and put in the timings, frequency and voltage yourself. I always do that with mine. I know mine is right because I set it myself.

No drivers load until the OS starts loading, so if you are bsod in BIOS you can pretty much rule out drivers. As I've said all along. You have a hardware problem.

If you want to know for sure, download a Live Linux ISO, Burn the ISO to a CD/DVD using the Windows Image burner or any image burner you have. Burn it not copy it. and boot from the CD/DVD. Use the Live version. It boots from the DVD and uses none of your drivers and runs completely in ram. If it crashes, there is no doubt you have a Hardware problem. Any Linux distro will work Peppermint Linux, Mint Mate or Zorin are popular and will work on most any hardware. None of your drivers are used.

 

[Layback Bear]

Thank you for the great information tgfyhre. You did a great job narrowing the path with your testing. Motherboard are very hard to isolate. You do it pretty much by eliminating everything else.
Also keep in mind that a poor quality power supply can drive a motherboard crazy or damage it where it will never work properly.

Please follow essenbe last recommendation. It may also give more needed information.

 

[tgfyhre]

First, your memory is running out of spec. You can look at the SPD tab and see what timings and voltage is in spec for each frequency. It will run fine at whatever you need it to run as long as the timings match the frequency and voltage You can set your bios to manual and put in the timings, frequency and voltage yourself. I always do that with mine. I know mine is right because I set it myself.

No drivers load until the OS starts loading, so if you are bsod in BIOS you can pretty much rule out drivers. As I've said all along. You have a hardware problem.

If you want to know for sure, download a Live Linux ISO, Burn the ISO to a CD/DVD using the Windows Image burner or any image burner you have. Burn it not copy it. and boot from the CD/DVD. Use the Live version. It boots from the DVD and uses none of your drivers and runs completely in ram. If it crashes, there is no doubt you have a Hardware problem. Any Linux distro will work Peppermint Linux, Mint Mate or Zorin are popular and will work on most any hardware. None of your drivers are used.

Thank you. I've checked the SPD tab and I'll go into the BIOS and match it.

 

[tgfyhre]

Okay I must be doing something wrong with putting in my memory timings. I've set the Freq to 800 and set the timings to 9,9,9,24 and command rate of 2T. I can't change the voltage - it won't let me. Currently CPU-Z says DRAM freq is 400.9 MHz with a timing of 9,9,9 24. Not sure why DRAM freq is only 400. My ASUS BIOS gives me a choice of auto manual or XMP. I had it at auto before and that ran the memory out of spec like you mentioned above.

If I set it to XMP then everything seems to set up ok but I'm afraid to run it because the voltage jumps to 1.66v and turns red. And a message appears above it saying:

According to Intel CPU SPEC, Dimms with voltage setting over 1.65 may damage CPU permanently!

XMP sets it to 1.66. Is this an issue? Can I just leave it at that or is that extra little bit enough to hurt the CPU? I should think the XMP setting should know not to set the voltage too high since it's all automatic, but that warning sounds scary. I can't seem to get the memory to run according to spec. I'm not an expert of course so some of this is confusing to me. I'm not sure what I'm setting wrong but XMP would be great if I could just set it to that and be done. This has been a point of confusion for me since I put this PC together.

Apparently the ASUS BIOS doesn't offer a 1.65 voltage setting, just 1.64 or 1.66. It's mentioned by somebody else who was confused by this here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261751-29-asus-dram-option-comments-please

Is 1.66 safe for the CPU?

 

[essenbe]

Wht does the voltage say on your ram sticks. Also, your frequency should be set to 1600 in bios and cpuz should show it as 800, or real close. If you ram sticks show 1.65V, 1.66 is fine for the ram. If instead of XMP, you set it to manual, you should be able to set the frequency, timings and voltage manually. But, the voltage must be what the ram sticks require. If that is too much for your board, you need to get new ram or set it up for a different frequency.

EDIT: I just checked your CPUz screenshots. You can run your ram at 1600 9-9-9-24 at 1.65V or 1333 9-9-9-24 at 1.5V.

 

[tgfyhre]

Wht does the voltage say on your ram sticks. Also, your frequency should be set to 1600 in bios and cpuz should show it as 800, or real close. If you ram sticks show 1.65V, 1.66 is fine for the ram. If instead of XMP, you set it to manual, you should be able to set the frequency, timings and voltage manually. But, the voltage must be what the ram sticks require. If that is too much for your board, you need to get new ram or set it up for a different frequency.

EDIT: I just checked your CPUz screenshots. You can run your ram at 1600 9-9-9-24 at 1.65V or 1333 9-9-9-24 at 1.5V.

Okay, thanks again. I set it to XMP as it seems on other boards lots of people say it won't make a difference between 1.65 and 1.66. CPU-Z now says 801.7 MH7 with 9,9,9,24 timing, tRFC of 88 and Command Rate of 2T. FSB-DRAM is 2:12.

Should the DRAM Freq be saying 801.7 or 1600? I'm guessing the 2T is doubling the 801.7 so it's really running @1600 - is that correct? I just thought it would actually say 1600 in CPU-Z but it doesn't.

EDIT: Ah I see you have to double the 801.7 as shown to get the real freq it's running at so I guess it's running @1600 which seems correct.

 

[essenbe]

No, it won't say exactly 1600 it will be very close though, so it sounds like you have it set up right. It says 800 because you have DDR3 ram the DDR means double data rate, which means you double what cpuz says. The 1T and 2T has nothing to do with it. That is the command rate and 2T is much more stable than 1T. The 1.65V or 1.66V will make no difference to the ram. It can make a difference to the memory controller, but I doubt it. Mine is running at 1.65V and is fine with it.