Recovery from Image or b/u disk

[nithig]

Ah ... gotta love MS!
Didn't want MS Office on my new Win 7 laptop.
Tried many times to ask MS how to remove the 60day trial programs (ie Office)
but if you've ever tried to communicate with MS you'll understand why I gave up in disgust.

V.happy with Open Office and noticed the high volume of updates for MS Office -
such high volume can only indicate security issues etc and since I don't use Office thought - damn it, I'll uninstall and hopefully stop getting all these notices to update.

So I did.
The ususal way (Control Panel/Programs/Uninstall)
Well, that seemed painless.

Then noticed certain things not working (eg Soluto) .... hmmmm
turned out that unbeknowest to me I'd also uninstalled MS.NET Framework.
(Of course no mention of that where I uninstalled from).

Also ... can you believe all the MS Office Trial Programs are still in my Start/
All Programs list and they all still open. (I really don't care any more)

So ... as I'm on dial-up I can't d/load a new version of .NET but I do have
both an Image and a backup disk .... is it possible to recover .NET from
either of these?

 

[Zeplash]

You can't just pull the .NET out of a Image,there will be no Setup for the Framework..But if you restore the whole image you'll be exactly back to the point you made it and your .NET and all the dail-up setting will be restored.

 

[nithig]

Hi Zeplash,

you wrote

if you restore the whole image

have never had to do this ... how to do it? is this covered in the tutorials do y' know?

 

[mjf]

Recover System Image

But this assumes you made an image to begin with.

Did you accidentally delete the .NET Framework or are you saying it happened when you uninstalled the trial Office?

 

[nithig]

Recover System Image

But this assumes you made an image to begin with.

Did you accidentally delete the .NET Framework or are you saying it happened when you uninstalled the trial Office?

Only uninstalled those programs listed in 'Programs' as MS Office.
No other unistallations done. Certainly did not uninstall .NET deliberately,
so have assumed it was part of the MS Office programs.

 

[mjf]

Recover System Image

But this assumes you made an image to begin with.

Did you accidentally delete the .NET Framework or are you saying it happened when you uninstalled the trial Office?

Only uninstalled those programs listed in 'Programs' as MS Office.
No other unistallations done. Certainly did not uninstall .NET deliberately,
so have assumed it was part of the MS Office programs.

I'm not sure what it looks like now but I deleted it at one stage (and subsequently installed a boxed retail version). There was one entry to uninstall:
Microsoft Office Home and Student 2007

 

[nithig]

There was one entry to uninstall:
Microsoft Office Home and Student 2007

This system came with Pro vers. and there was more than one
entry for MS Office.
_________________________
Let's forget recovery ... I can live without .NET meanwhile.

Perhaps more important is for me to understand Backup.
I made a b/up disk according to instuctions.
When I go to 'top up' so to speak ... the disk is rejected and the B/up will
not continue.
I made a new b/up disk in case the first disk had a corruption but same problem

So my questions about backup are:
a. what sort of disk do I use? RW or R
b. should I insert same disk when I want to 'top up' the backup?

 

[mjf]

I've used DVD +R in the distant past for backup.
Some people have problems with MS imaging & backup (2 seperate things!)
The problems seem to increase when they use DVDs - I haven't seen a concise reason yet.

I (& just about everyone else will) recommend:
1) Don't consider DVDs for MS file/folder backup or MS imaging. This goes for third party backup/imaging software.
2) Use a relatively cheap external USB HDD
3) Read some of the excellent tutorials provided on the forum. Then come back and ask questions.

If MS backup/imaging continues to be a problem for you then there are (free) third party software alternatives that are highly regarded by forum members.

Clearly you need DVDs for factory recovery, and the MS system repair disk.

 

[nithig]

Ok, thanks MJF but just one question:
are backups cumulative (ie create an initial b/up then add new files)?
or is each b/up an entire b/up?

 

[mjf]

To make sure we are talking about the same thing
"Backups" as I said before involve 2 distinct activities. Images which are snapshots of whole partitions which includes OS, programs, data etc.
File/Folder backups which essentially is your personal data plus whatever additional folders you nominate. What people often think of as backing up. These are incremental. But after certain periods of time and when you change backup location a new full backup will be created. You can view and manage these backup sets by deciding to delete old ones for space. You can go into the backups and pull out folders & files leaving the backup in place.

 

[marsmimar]

Try doing a System Restore to a date/time just prior to uninstalling Office (not to be confused with restoring a backup or restoring a system image.)

Windows 7 Features: System Restore

If your computer is returned to it's previous condition, then I would suggest investing in a external hard drive so you can do those system backups and/or system images.

 

[karlsnooks]

Ok, thanks MJF but just one question:
are backups cumulative (ie create an initial b/up then add new files)?
or is each b/up an entire b/up?

What program did you use to make a backup?

The word backup means different things to different people and even Microsoft does not use the word consistently.

I will give the big picture of what I do for "backup".
1. I make a system image (this term also means different things to different people and software companies).
1. I make a straight backup with no compression of my data drive.

For Step 1, I use Windows 7's Backup & Restore.

For Step 2, I use Microsoft's SyncToy.

Both the image and the data backups are done to a USB drive.

Backups to a DVD are ridiculous -- slow, expensive, cumbersome and problematic (don't ever lose a single DVD in a backup set!).

I backup by data drive daily. I create a new system image on the average of once a week but that is because I do much testing and experimenting which forces me to create a system image in case something goes astray and those system image backups have saved me from great disasters.

 

[mborner]

nithig, understanding the backup utility in Windows 7 is really quite simple. First, the backup utility in Windows 7 can accomplish 4 different things.

1. It can backup
2. It can image
3. It can create a restore disk
4. It can restore data

The term backup means that the utility will backup your user data and settings. Basically, it will backup everything on your drive that you'll likely need in case of data loss. The only thing that the utility won't backup is Windows, itself, and any installed programs that you have that did not install from the Windows installation DVD.

The term image means, literally, a picture, a snapshot. An image is basically a duplicate of your hard drive. An image includes everything, including the operating system, all programs, all data, all settings, and yes, even all viruses, if they are on your drive at the time the image is made. If your system is running sluggish because of malware, creating an image, and then restoring it, accomplishes nothing. A system image even includes your partitions and drivers. After restoring a system image, it's a good idea to restore your latest backup to get your system as up to date as possible.

A restore disk does not contain any of the data on your HDD. Simply, the restore disk is used as a utility to access your image data in case Windows won't boot so that a system image can be restored. It's nothing more than a bootable utility.

Backing up data and system images should be done on an external HDD. Backing up to optical disk drives is not recommended. The only thing you need on a CD or DVD is a restore disk. All of your data goes to an external HDD.

Yes, Windows 7 does incremental backups, backing up only the data that has changed since the last backup. Obviously, the first time you run the backup utility, Windows will do a complete backup. (Don't confuse this with image) You should be aware, though, that every once in a while when you run the backup utility, Windows will do another complete backup. When this will happen is debatable, just know that each "complete" backup is called a "backup period." These backup periods will show up as date ranges under "view backups". System images will also be shown there.

You have control over how many system images Windows keeps on your HDD. It's generally good advice to keep at least the latest system image. Backup periods have to be deleted manually, again, keeping the latest backup period.

 

[karlsnooks]

mboner,

I think you would also benefit from reading that tutorial to fine turn your explanations.

Actually, the Win 7 Backup and Restore can backup just data, or just create vhd images of the partitions you select or any combination of these.

What gets restored depends upon the type of backup you make. Data backups are incremental and are stored in .zip file.

For laptops, external usb drives are the most common by a very large margin.

And by making a system image backup then you have backed up Windows and the programs you have installed. You can use the System Repair Disc to restore your system image. Please note that Win 7 does not make a sector-by-sector image backup. Although all of this is explained in that tutorial.


Notice that Win 7 uses the term Repair Disk and not Restore disc.

The system repair disc can do much more than just restore a system image. Here you can make one, boot from same and investigate the options.

Win 7 Backup will delete old backups if it needs space. The handling of multiple system image backups doesn't agree with MS documentation. for this point, the tutorial correctly explains the handling.

I have used Win 7 Backup and Restore system image capabilities to backup a hard drive, then insert a new hard drive and restore to the new drive from the backup. Works great. Useful to remember if you ever consider either using a SSD or new hard drive.

 

[mjf]

Ok, thanks MJF but just one question:
are backups cumulative (ie create an initial b/up then add new files)?
or is each b/up an entire b/up?

You can see my feedback and some from others.
I think you now have to put the time into reading the tutorials as well as the followup questions that trail the tutorials. Plus your own hands on use of the tools.

 

[mborner]

mboner,

I think you would also benefit from reading that tutorial to fine turn your explanations.

Actually, the Win 7 Backup and Restore can backup just data, or just create vhd images of the partitions you select or any combination of these.

What gets restored depends upon the type of backup you make. Data backups are incremental and are stored in .zip file.

For laptops, external usb drives are the most common by a very large margin.

And by making a system image backup then you have backed up Windows and the programs you have installed. You can use the System Repair Disc to restore your system image. Please note that Win 7 does not make a sector-by-sector image backup. Although all of this is explained in that tutorial.


Notice that Win 7 uses the term Repair Disk and not Restore disc.

The system repair disc can do much more than just restore a system image. Here you can make one, boot from same and investigate the options.

Win 7 Backup will delete old backups if it needs space. The handling of multiple system image backups doesn't agree with MS documentation. for this point, the tutorial correctly explains the handling.

I have used Win 7 Backup and Restore system image capabilities to backup a hard drive, then insert a new hard drive and restore to the new drive from the backup. Works great. Useful to remember if you ever consider either using a SSD or new hard drive.

Yes, I've read the tutorial, and several other sources, plus my own personal experiences. I understand the Windows 7 backup utility pretty well. My post may have been a little simplistic in nature as I just wanted to make it clear to the OP, the differences between the terms "image" and "backup", as he seemed to be struggling with the definition. Sure, there are many, many, more details involved in Windows 7 backup but it wasn't my intent to exploit the full capabilities of Windows 7 backup. Your entire post is correct, although, perhaps a bit daunting for the OP.
Cheers.

 

[DeaconFrost]

So many things in the first post have me scratching my head...so hopefull we can figure them out for clarity's sake. Nothing bugs me more than blaming MS for something that isn't their doing. Anyway...if you "gotta love MS", and you use Open Office...I have one word for you: Linux.

First, it sounds like you have a prebuilt, OEM system. If the problem is that bad, why not roll back using the recovery discs? I've also removed the Office trials from several OEM systems, without any issues, using the standard Programs and Features applet. Not once have I had an issue, nor did it remove .NET either. Sounds like you either clicked the wrong thing, or you bought a misconfigured system. If it was my system, I'd be getting a disc and doing a clean install.

Dial up? In 2010? Seriously?

 

[nithig]

Deacon Frost wrote

why not roll back using the recovery discs? I've also removed the Office trials from several OEM systems

well Deacon that sounds good ... what does it mean (btw you're right it's a pre-installed system)?

blaming MS for something that isn't their doing

I do not want a 60 day trial vers of Office.
So putting it on the system and making it so difficult to remove ... we'll I'd say that is MS's doing, wouldn't you?

Dial up? In 2010? Seriously?

Parts of Australia where anything else is just too prohibitive
financially. There is a NBN (National Broadband Network) underway but there are many clouds mostly due to the enormous cost of laying optic cable everywhere.
__________________________________

To all the other contributers ... thanks heaps.
Ok to summarise: I've ditched the disks
Now I've got a portable HDD
The whole b/up and Image process is now much clearer to me.

So all I need to do is find a way to get .NET back and make an Image onto the external HDD.

btw tried a Restore and it won't do it. First claimed an anti vir was blocking so turned that off and tried
again - then it stated that there was a file it couldn't access.

 

[karlsnooks]

Sounds like progress.

Which backup software are you using?

What are you trying to backup?

What anti-virus software do you use?

 

[nithig]

Which backup software are you using?

What are you trying to backup?

What anti-virus software do you use?

- The one which comes with Win 7 (can you recommend alternatives?)

- First I would like a Image of the whole system then b/up files
(before this is done want to get .Net back on ...may go to a computer shop and ask if it can be put
onto a flash drive for me).

- Zone Alarm (but have tried Restore with ZA off - makes no diff.)