Security Cameras

[pparks1]

He probably wants the tress pruned to have a better lookout of the parking lot from the camera. I have a suspicion that your apartment complex is not going to allow you to string up cameras within their facility.

 

[seekermeister]

You may be right, but if they don't, I will be looking for a new place to live. I do not believe that they can stop me, if I put the camera on my own balcony, but that means tree trimming. I'm going to talk to the manager tomorrow, hoping that I can persuade her to have the complex install cameras itself. If I were the only one effected, that wouldn't happen, but I know of a couple of other people who have had their cars stolen from the lot recently. Like I said, I think that the thieves live in the complex themselves. Either that, or they are regular visitors to someone that does. When I spoke yesterday to the people that I suspect, they said that they were "housekeeping" for the person that actually lives here. They also mentioned that the guy had lent his car to a friend, before leaving town for a couple days. He was supposed to only drive it to the store and return it very shortly, but he has had it a couple of days now. However, I got the gut feeling that the couple I spoke with were truthful.

Whatever the case may be, a solution shall be found, or the complex will lose a tenant.

 

[pparks1]

The balcony is going to be iffy. Technically it's part of the structure, which you don't own...the landlord does. I'd say as long as you don't permanently attach it you are likely going to be ok. And you have to be sure that it's only looking at the parking lot and not possibly into a window of a neighboring apartment..this could cause an issue as well.

 

[seekermeister]

i suppose you could be right about if it was pointed at a neighbor's window, but I would think that would require a complaint from them. That is one reason that I don't want the camera to be lit up. As far as whether it could be attached to the balcony structure, I'm thinking about the FCC's OTARD regulation regarding TV antennas, saying that they can't be prevented, so long as they are attached to an area that is for the exclusive use of the tenant. A camera isn't an antenna, but the principle is the same. Also, they don't complain about the tenants hanging other devices on their balcony or patio areas, like flower pots, wind chimes, christmas lights, etc. In any case, the camera would have to be firmly attached for me to feel comfortable about it's security in weather.

 

[maxseven]

It had not occurred to me that you wanted the tree-trimmed so you could see your vehicle from your balcony!

Absolutely if you can see it, given especially all the trouble you've had, I would not hesitate to put a camera out on my balcony if it were me. Not sure what your mounting possibilities are, but there are still weatherproof options for you if you don't have an eave you can mount under. Like this:

Foscam FI8905W Outdoor Wireless IP Camera - Products
http://foscam.us/products/foscam-fi8905w-outdoor-wireless-ip-camera-23.html

 

[seekermeister]

That camera seems to have all the features needed. I don't want IP, but I guess that I can simply choose not to use it. As far as mounting, I would need to either mount it to the balcony rail, or to the outside wall of the balcony, because the eave is too high for me to reach, and that high of a position would be even more difficult to obtain a clear view through the tree limbs. Even with the camera mounted as low as possible, it will require some pruning. If not, I wouldn't even discuss it with the apt. manager.

EDIT: I just thought of another mounting possibility...I could put the mount into a large plant urn that I have on the balcony. That would eliminate the possibility of the manager complaining about it being mounted to the wall, and it would put it at a lower angle, missing more of the tree limbs. The only thing that I can see wrong with this idea is that it might splash mud on the camera and lens when it rains.

 

[seekermeister]

After reviewing the specs of that Foscam, there is one thing that if it is as it sounds, I can't use that model, because it says that there is no pan/tilt. If that only means that there is no remote control over those, that isn't a problem, but it sounds more like the parameters is rigidly set by the mount. Yet in the photos of an eBay ad for the camera:

Foscam FI8905W 60 LED Wireless IP Security Camera CCTV | eBay

It appears that there are angle adjustments on the mount. if I mounted it on the wall, the camera and the mount would have to be pretty much inline for it to work.

 

[seekermeister]

Something more that bothers me about that particular camera is the heat and humidity limits. While it will operate at the high temperatures okay, the lower limit (32 degrees) is often exceeded in the winter. As for the humidity limit (85% operating) is also frequently exceeded. The average R.H. here is 81%, but will sometimes exceed 90%. That seems to suggest that camera would be unreliable at best, and malfunction at worst.

 

[seekermeister]

Something that I haven't seen addressed in any of the ads for the cameras I have found, is whether it is possible to zoom in on the subject area. It wouldn't do any good to only be able to see people's forms, it would need to capture a person's facial image clearly enough for ID. Perhaps zoom is the wrong word to use, because it wouldn't necessarily need to be adjustable, but the focus would need to bring the subject area close. For my purposes, it would seem that if it would only display a 15-20 foot radius from a distance of ~ 75 feet, that would be sufficient.

 

[maxseven]

An outdoor camera with pan/tilt/zoom, and wider temperature specs, is likely to cost a bit more (a lot more?) but of course there are zillions of such cameras available so you have some serious surfing to do.

I don't understand your comment "I don't want IP". If you buy a wireless camera to comm with your wireless router, of course the camera has to have an IP address. You can either set the router to hand-out an IP address to the cam, or most (all?) cams will let you assign a static IP.

 

[seekermeister]

With your response, I now think that my comment arose out of ignorance, because I was thinking that the IP function was something connected with broadcasting over the internet, instead of how you explained it. I noticed that the Foscam camera that we have been discussing has 3 lens options which vary in the viewing angle (42, 30 or 22). Would the smaller angle enlarge the image on the monitor something like as those it was zoomed in, or only show a smaller picture on the screen? If the former, then the smaller viewing angle would better show the details of a person's image...true?

 

[maxseven]

Re: IP address, you have a router, therefore a LAN, and each gizmo on your LAN needs an address, though in your case a local address e.g. 192.168.0.xxx or .1.xxx. Typically you access your cam via a browser, and enter the cam address e.g. http://192.168.1.135 or whatever, although there are other applications that may be used also.

As for viewing angle, AFAIK these are selected according to where your cam is located and how wide its field-of-vision needs to be to see everything you want, and nothing you DON'T want e.g. a bright light or something. PROBABLY a lens of 22 will be slightly (VERY slightly) sharper than 42, but I wouldn't count on that. So I don't think any one of them is going to give better detail than another--the reason for the different angles is application-dependent: For a short stoop and a doorway, you want a wider-angle lens. For your application, it seems to me you'd want the narrow-angle lens, unless a.) you're willing to capture all activity in the lot, not just your vehicle's surrounds, or b.) you can't count on parking in the same-or-similar location every time so need a wideangle lens anyway. I have several woodworking tools here I might use to try to determine whether 22 or good or 42 is needed, just by setting & aiming. Not sure how else to determine that.

You may be asking a lot to get a good ID on a person's face at a distance. I'll only refer you to the crummy shots we've all seen in newspapers and TV from security cams in 7-elevens & banks et al. In the end you still need a cooperative Law Enforcement dept to follow-up anyway?

 

[LiquidSnak]

With your response, I now think that my comment arose out of ignorance, because I was thinking that the IP function was something connected with broadcasting over the internet, instead of how you explained it. I noticed that the Foscam camera that we have been discussing has 3 lens options which vary in the viewing angle (42, 30 or 22). Would the smaller angle enlarge the image on the monitor something like as those it was zoomed in, or only show a smaller picture on the screen? If the former, then the smaller viewing angle would better show the details of a person's image...true?

The smaller angle lens will show a smaller area as being "larger," yes. The only other difference is distortion. Not like, fuzzy faces and what with a good camera because you have a wide angle lens, but some things may appear at funny angles, like they are slightly tilted. The lens is what gives you the viewing angle, so it's the same resolution camera, but the lens allows more of an image to be captured, at the cost of distorting the angles slightly. It's like having a bubble mirror in a hallway, you can see around the corner, but stuff looks funny.

 

[seekermeister]

I just spoke with the apt. manager, and while she balked at the idea of the complex installing cameras, she is not adverse to me placing a camera on the balcony. I think that she will have maintenance prune the tree limbs as needed. She is to call me after she has a chance to look at the situation. Therefore, I now have to make a decision about which camera to get.

LiquidSnak,

If I understood what you said, I would be better off with a lens with a narrow viewing angle, so long as it is wide enough to take in the parking spaces. There are only four of them in the parking area that I can observe that would need to come within the field of view, and usually the one that I would probably use is always empty. If the field of view only took in two of them, if I were forced to park in one of the other two, I could manually re-aim the camera as needed.

That only leaves the question about an affordable camera that has temperature and humity parameters that would permit it to function reliably.

 

[seekermeister]

I got to thinking about how useful that motion detection would be, because I would imagine that snow, rain or even tree limbs swaying in the breeze would set it off, and it would probably run continuously. If that were so, then the only way to keep it from filling hard drive space would be to have it set for photos, rather than motion picture film. I guess that would suffice, but I still wonder whether snow and rain would set off the camera?

 

[LiquidSnak]

snow maybe, rain no. I'm not up on security camera companies ATM, but yes, something to take in the four parking spaces would be good, and possibly a second one to capture the common way of entrance if you feel it's necessary.

 

[seekermeister]

I've lost count of the number of cameras that I have looked at since starting this thread, and every one of them had one thing or another wrong with them. Surely there is a right camera somewhere.

 

[maxseven]

I got to thinking about how useful that motion detection would be, because I would imagine that snow, rain or even tree limbs swaying in the breeze would set it off, and it would probably run continuously. If that were so, then the only way to keep it from filling hard drive space would be to have it set for photos, rather than motion picture film. I guess that would suffice, but I still wonder whether snow and rain would set off the camera?

There are sensitivity adjustments that intend to deal with rain, maybe snow, dunno about tree limbs--a security pro would probably tell you that your field-of-view has to avoid certain things like swaying fronds or whipping flags etc.

The Foscams I have record for a minute upon detecting motion, and they are low-res 640x480 i.e. not High Res so aren't the biggest files imaginable. I'm not pitching Foscam cameras, but they're what I have and I've been impressed with what you get for the $. You might want to DL a manual or two from their support page and take a look. You'll also want to YouTube to see samples of what these cheapo cameras are capable of:

Support

 

[seekermeister]

No explanation necessary. I fully understand that a person can only talk about what they have personally dealt with. I have nothing against Foscam, except their tolerance to temperature and humidity. As these limits are stated in their specs on the cameras that I have found, I'm forced to assume that they would be problematic in the climate that I live in. I wish that were not so, because otherwise they appear to be exactly what I'm looking for.

The problem with other brands so far, has been the lack of technical specs...at least where I have looked. It seems strange to me that some vendors of these cameras do not provide full specifications themselves, because it has become apparent to me that there is a lot more to these cameras than how they look and how much that they cost.

Thanks for the link, I'll browse around there some, whether I buy a Foscam or not.

EDIT: As far as the tree limb/motion detection issue, I will have to wait to see just how much the apt. manager is willing to prune the limbs. If she will remove the lowest branch, and not just the limbs dangling from it, I should have a pretty clear shot of the parking lot. Even with just the dangling limbs removed, the camera should be able to see the area clearly.

one of the biggest problems I have run into with other cameras is their viewing angle. Most of them are too wide...even wider than the Foscams.

 

[Britton30]

Where I used to work had a security cam system which allowed us to set the motion detection to be ignored in parts of the field of view. The screen adjustment was laid out in a grid and the sections could be turned off as needed.