Stability Question

[DeaconFrost]

That's a quality brand, and should be enough juice. If the PSU is going bad, that could also cause hangs, reboots, and instability.

 

[Mellon Head]

I just noticed the type of RAM. I had two sticks of the same RAM for my new build and they went bad in about two weeks. Both sticks, one after another.

Random BSODs, reboots, freezing. It was a nightmare to troubleshoot. Good thing I had RMA insurance on them. I won't be buying the Gold series from OCZ anymore. Platinum, Reaper, yes, but no Gold for me. It kind of soured me on OCZ RAM, and I've never had trouble with it before. Looking at the OCZ forums, I wasn't the only one with problems with the Gold series.

 

[jalebi]

I just noticed the type of RAM. I had two sticks of the same RAM for my new build and they went bad in about two weeks. Both sticks, one after another.

Random BSODs, reboots, freezing. It was a nightmare to troubleshoot. Good thing I had RMA insurance on them. I won't be buying the Gold series from OCZ anymore. Platinum, Reaper, yes, but no Gold for me. It kind of soured me on OCZ RAM, and I've never had trouble with it before. Looking at the OCZ forums, I wasn't the only one with problems with the Gold series.

I've run memtest86+ on them for more than 10 hours and there were no errors. Doesn't that mean that there is no issue with them?

Also, what do you make of the fact that the BSODs seem to occur almost always while playing a game?

 

[DeaconFrost]

Also, what do you make of the fact that the BSODs seem to occur almost always while playing a game?

That's why I was pointing towards your power supply, since you already testedt the memory. Gaming is an increase draw on the PSU, so if that I failing, or you have one of the lines overloaded, it can cause those issues. Heat issues can cause freezing and reboots as well, considering your temps will rise to their highest point during a gaming session.

If you are getting BSoDs, those should be pointing you into the right direction in terms of what the fault is.

My next step would be to check airflow in the case and maybe swap out the PSU with another one to test.

A failing video card will also cause these issues during a gaming session. Just another point to consider.

 

[jalebi]

Also, what do you make of the fact that the BSODs seem to occur almost always while playing a game?

That's why I was pointing towards your power supply, since you already testedt the memory. Gaming is an increase draw on the PSU, so if that I failing, or you have one of the lines overloaded, it can cause those issues. Heat issues can cause freezing and reboots as well, considering your temps will rise to their highest point during a gaming session.

If you are getting BSoDs, those should be pointing you into the right direction in terms of what the fault is.

My next step would be to check airflow in the case and maybe swap out the PSU with another one to test.

A failing video card will also cause these issues during a gaming session. Just another point to consider.

I've run Furmark to stress test the GPU and get it to high temperatures. Everything went well, no crashes or BSODs.

Someone in another thread suggested it was Device Verifier that was causing all the problems. I've now switched it off. Could this program (ironically designed to prevent drivers from causing damage) be causing the BSODs - i.e. does it have a great influence on the system?

 

[DeaconFrost]

Is Device Verifier a third party program?

 

[Dave76]

It's a MS tool.

Driver Verifier is included in Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Windows Server 2003 to promote stability and reliability; you can use this tool to troubleshoot driver issues. Windows kernel-mode components can cause system corruption or system failures as a result of an improperly written driver, such as an earlier version of a Windows Driver Model (WDM) driver. This article describes how to use Driver Verifier to isolate and troubleshoot a driver in the system.

Using Driver Verifier to identify issues with Windows drivers for advanced users

It stresses the driver to try and cause them to fail, if a questionable driver is found or forced to crash it Blue Screens (BSoD) and makes a report so you can update or replace the offending driver.

jalebi, have you checked your temps during testing and games?
Have you checked/cleaned your case?
Your max temp is 73c, check here:Processor AMD Athlon™ II X3.

Is your RAM in ganged or unganged mode?
Try unganged if not selected already.

How many RAM sticks? 2 or 4?
This may affect how your RAM is preforming.

Have a look at this thread: VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING AMD AM3 CPU's and RAM SPEEDS

Read his first post on page 2, he made a clarification on ganged and unganged.

You may need to change your RAM to 1066 Mhz to get stability.

It would be much easier for everyone to help you if you would fill out your system specs.
Someone with a similar setup or familiar with this issue might be able to help with a little information.

 

[jalebi]

It's a MS tool.

Driver Verifier is included in Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Windows Server 2003 to promote stability and reliability; you can use this tool to troubleshoot driver issues. Windows kernel-mode components can cause system corruption or system failures as a result of an improperly written driver, such as an earlier version of a Windows Driver Model (WDM) driver. This article describes how to use Driver Verifier to isolate and troubleshoot a driver in the system.

Using Driver Verifier to identify issues with Windows drivers for advanced users

It stresses the driver to try and cause them to fail, if a questionable driver is found or forced to crash it Blue Screens (BSoD) and makes a report so you can update or replace the offending driver.

jalebi, have you checked your temps during testing and games?
Have you checked/cleaned your case?
Your max temp is 73c, check here:Processor AMD Athlon™ II X3.

Is your RAM in ganged or unganged mode?
Try unganged if not selected already.

How many RAM sticks? 2 or 4?
This may affect how your RAM is preforming.

Have a look at this thread: VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING AMD AM3 CPU's and RAM SPEEDS

Read his first post on page 2, he made a clarification on ganged and unganged.

You may need to change your RAM to 1066 Mhz to get stability.

It would be much easier for everyone to help you if you would fill out your system specs.
Someone with a similar setup or familiar with this issue might be able to help with a little information.

I will check the ganged vs unganged issue as soon as I can (different computer at the moment). I do this in the BIOS, correct?

The RAM is 2x2gb sticks.

During graphics stress tests the GPU gets up to a maximum of 52C. It is 32C when idle. I haven't checked the CPU temps but I don't think its particularly high. The same problem persists even when using a house fan for extra cooling so this leads me to believe its not a temperature issue.

The computer is only a few weeks old so it is definitely clean.

I will update my specs to make it easier for people to help me.

 

[Dave76]

Good job updating the system specs, this makes it much easier for people trying to help you.

Yes, you can change it to unganged in BIOS.

Read the information on the link about AMD and RAM speeds, this issue is due to the integrated memory controller.

Down load Core Temp and CPUID Hardware Monitor to check the CPU temps.

Monitor the CPU temps while running testing programs and do a check on your games to be safe.

Driver Verifier is a testing tool and is suppose to cause BSoDs, this finds drivers that are causing problems.
Don't leave it on all the time.

If you still have crashes, start a thread in Crashes and Debugging.
Someone there can help you with the Driver Verifier crash reports.

Let us know your progress.

 

[Mellon Head]

Dave,

Not to hijack the thread, but I noticed this in the article:

AMD recommend running RAM in Unganged (Single channel) mode.
From my own testing, RAM above 1333 Mhz can be extremely fussy if you insist on trying to run in Ganged (Dual channel) Mode and will often return an Overclock warning at start-up and revert to 1333 Mhz., by default. In most modern mult-threaded applications there is actually no loss in performance when running in Unganged Mode and, in some instances, Unganged mode is actually superior.

I always thought that Unganged was Dual Channel mode, and Ganged was Single Channel. CPU-Z says my RAM is Unganged and running in DC mode.

I'm a little confused, is that a typo?

 

[Dave76]

That one got me too, check the link I posted;

VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING AMD AM3 CPU's and RAM SPEEDS

Go to page 2, first post, he clarifies ganged and unganged.
It is how the channels are setup, as one channel or two separate channels.

The dual and single channel mode is how they access the memory controllers.
One RAM card is single channel.
Two RAM cards can be single or dual channel, depends on what slots you use.
Three or four cards and you'll be in dual channel.

 

[Mellon Head]

Ah, thanks for that clarification. I missed page two entirely.

I'll have to check the next time I boot up. I'm sure I have a setting for Ganged/Unganged, but my board's manual doesn't show it as a BIOS option. I've always run Unganged. It would be interesting to see a benchmark comparison. Maybe I'll run some sometime.

 

[spyknee]

DDR3 ram, shouldn't that come bundled with 3 sticks? Mine did. DDR2 was bundled with 2 sticks.
You should set the mobo bios to the ram manufacturers specs, voltage and timings. All hardware should be tuned to specs.

Your 4850 ATI vid card, I have heard of issues with that series card.??????? Especially AGP cards.

W7 is MS's best OS yet, I would be surprised if it was the OS. Get drivers from manufactureres websites. Double check for 32/64 bit versions.

I game with 64 bit, works fine. 32 bit games run fine. Run dxdiag to check direct X and how your hardware works with it.

I used to have issues with sound that appeared video like, other puters did not like pci sound cards, I have taken too using onboard sound. That leaves pci-e slots for video alone.

When your games crash, what does the blue screen say? Will tell you if its video, sound drivers or somthing else.

 

[Mellon Head]

DDR3 comes as triple channel (3 sticks) and dual channel (2 sticks) and single channel (you guessed it), depending on your needs. AMD boards, for instance, can use dual or single channel kits, where as Intel boards can often use triple channel kits.

 

[Dave76]

The i8xx and down use dual channel and the i9's use triple channel.

Most AMD DDR3 boards use Dual, I think!

AMD integrated memory controllers have a known issue with RAM 1333MHz and above, some CPU/memory controllers have an BSoD issue that has been reportedly fixed with a RAM voltage bump and using unganged setting.

Have seen this issue resolved by the above fix.
Not all have this issue, but there seems to be quite a few.

 

[Mellon Head]

The i8xx and down use dual channel and the i9's use triple channel.

Most AMD DDR3 boards use Dual, I think!

AMD integrated memory controllers have a known issue with RAM 1333MHz and above, some CPU/memory controllers have an BSoD issue that has been reportedly fixed with a RAM voltage bump and using unganged setting.

Have seen this issue resolved by the above fix.
Not all have this issue, but there seems to be quite a few.

Yeah, AMD boards can be a little finicky with DDR3, but usually only if you overclock the RAM. AMD will void your CPU's warranty if you clock your RAM higher than 1333. From my own personal experiences with my AMD rigs, and plenty of research, I have a few rules of thumb I work by...

With the AM3 memory controller, you need to be very aware of the RAM and Northbridge voltage, and you need to run your RAM at their specified voltage to get them to work properly. Overvolting DDR3 RAM can kill the CPU quite fast, because the memory controller is on the CPU's die along with the core and just adds to the excess heat.

AM2/AM2+ boards and CPUs using DDR2 are a bit more forgiving, from my own experience, but you still need to be careful with them.

And you should never run your AMD board's RAM voltage at the motherboard's "Auto" setting, other than when the sticks are first installed. Set the speed, voltage, and timings manually for the best results.

 

[slurp812]

I got a NEW PC (AMD phenom II ddr3 @ 1466 Nvidia gts250) back in April. so far, iv had ONE random reboot (@ 1500 on the ddr). Occasionally flaky, but for the most part, its been very stable for me. I would assume using the same drivers on the same hardware would result in the similar stability. I would try switch to 32bit win7, and just see if that makes a difference. If so, it would most likely point to drivers. I would only revert back to XP kicking and screaming...

I've been having lots of problems with stability in Windows 7 (Ultimate and Professional). Whether it's audio drivers, memory issues, or graphics problems, Windows 7 is not very stable for me.

I know this is a Windows 7 forums so I do expect some bias, but what OS would you recommend for me that is the most stable and would be able to play new games? I was considering XP 64bit but I read the support for that is terrible. Now I'm considering a 32 bit OS if it would provide more stability but I don't want my 4gb of RAM to go to waste. What do you think?

CPU: AMD Athlon II x3 440 3.00ghz
RAM: 4gb 1333mhz DDR3
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD4850

 

[jalebi]

You should set the mobo bios to the ram manufacturers specs, voltage and timings. All hardware should be tuned to specs.

So I should change the timings to the manufacturer-specificed ones (it was set to AUTO and the timings ended up different)? Earlier on in the thread, someone said I shouldnt mess with the timings....

 

[Keiichi25]

You should set the mobo bios to the ram manufacturers specs, voltage and timings. All hardware should be tuned to specs.

So I should change the timings to the manufacturer-specificed ones (it was set to AUTO and the timings ended up different)? Earlier on in the thread, someone said I shouldnt mess with the timings....

When people were saying don't mess with the settings, it was more of don't tweak them if you don't know what you are doing or trying to eek out more performance.

Even though I don't have an AMD rig, I tend to try to stick to manufacturer's recommended settings to keep things within norm if possible. People who have the patience to tweak and be willing to deal with quirks will try to up their system, especially if they have much more serious gear like liquid cooling and what not to compensate for Overclocking issues such as heat. AMDs tend to run a little hotter due to design, so you have to be wary of every little thing if you want to get the most out of the system, or risk running into having a nightmare trying to get it to work because of tweaking a setting without knowing you need to have the right circumstances.

 

[Dave76]

With the AM3 memory controller, you need to be very aware of the RAM and Northbridge voltage, and you need to run your RAM at their specified voltage to get them to work properly. Overvolting DDR3 RAM can kill the CPU quite fast, because the memory controller is on the CPU's die along with the core and just adds to the excess heat.

And you should never run your AMD board's RAM voltage at the motherboard's "Auto" setting, other than when the sticks are first installed. Set the speed, voltage, and timings manually for the best results.

You should set the mobo bios to the ram manufacturers specs, voltage and timings. All hardware should be tuned to specs.

So I should change the timings to the manufacturer-specificed ones (it was set to AUTO and the timings ended up different)? Earlier on in the thread, someone said I shouldnt mess with the timings....

Good advice from both the above posts.

What were the timings set to, when on Auto?

If you don't have CPUZ, you should D/L it and post the memory and SPD tabs.

Sometimes AMD boards will lower settings in order to have better stability.
They sometimes don't run well at 1600MHz, it will be more stable at 1333MHz.
They will have a JEDEC setting for 1333MHZ on the CPUZ SPD tab.

If that is what your referring to, you should leave it at 1333MHz.

From the previously posted link.

Some of the Athlon CPU's have a memory speed rating of 1066 Mhz and will pull back RAM above this speed to the default setting. This is again to protect the CPU's Memory Controller and is not a fault with the Motherboard, BIOS or RAM.

So it may need to be at 1066 MHz.

Did you check if it is in unganged mode?