STILL confused about "Upgrade" installation process.

[Nosmo]

timsart,
Great post. The MS sites you have links to have been up for quite a while and I believe that the left hand of MS does not know what the right hand is doing.

This quote from the MS store is interesting.

" You qualify for Windows 7 upgrade versions if you are running genuine Windows Vista, Windows XP, or Windows 2000 on your PC."

Now we know that Activation is one method they might use to Validate a users legal position in regard to their licence. But if memory serves, Win 2000 was pre activation and how can MS validate an upgrade install from this OS.


I also am amazed that this was not all cleared up way back before pre ordering specials were anounced.

 

[Nosmo]

This was a recent communication from an MS employee


Hello Nosmo

To use an Upgrade, it is required that you have a Qualified copy of Windows to Upgrade from. A "Qualified" copy of Windows (almost by Definition) would also have to be a Genuine copy of Windows. That was the requirerment for Upgrading to XP, That was the requirerment for Upgrading to Vista and it's the requirment for upgradeing to Windows 7. The only difference is that Win7 enforces this by requiring, that the Windows being Upgraded, also be Activated. The total time added to the whole reinstall process would be (best case) less then a second, by Activating over the internet, and (worst case) around 5 mins, by Activating by Phone.


You ask " How do you activate XP the second time around when needing to re install."

You activate XP by the same way you did the first time around. You install XP using the XP Product Key then follow the 'Activate over the Internet' or 'Activate by Phone' wizard.

Hope that help clarify the process,
Darin mS

* Marked As Answer byDarin Smith MSMSFT, ModeratorWednesday, August 12, 2009 6:58 PM

Not looking good. Who is Darin? A moderator on a Microsoft forum? Just trying to gauge credibility.

Darin Smith works for MS in the Activation/Validation dept and also moderates on one of MS's forums titled " Genuine Advantage Validation Issues ". Part of TechNet I believe.
I have no doubt of his authenticity.

His quote, in bold type above, seems to me to be quite emphatic.

 

[timsart]

timsart,
Great post. The MS sites you have links to have been up for quite a while and I believe that the left hand of MS does not know what the right hand is doing.

This quote from the MS store is interesting.

" You qualify for Windows 7 upgrade versions if you are running genuine Windows Vista, Windows XP, or Windows 2000 on your PC."

Now we know that Activation is one method they might use to Validate a users legal position in regard to their licence. But if memory serves, Win 2000 was pre activation and how can MS validate an upgrade install from this OS.


I also am amazed that this was not all cleared up way back before pre ordering specials were anounced.

I agree. The Windows 2000 "activation" issue is one that has me collecting this information. That and the contradictory answers I've received from various Microsoft employees via chat, email and phone since the time that the pre-release specials were announced. (As well as contradictory statements from MVP's in the forums.)

As I stated, I plan to make some noise if the upgrade versions cannot be used as outlined on the links I provided in my last post.

I myself plan to attempt to "upgrade" to a clean hard drive partition using Windows 2000 as my legal "qualifying" product. Guess we will see what happens.

Microsoft appears to have the usage of the term "upgrade" somewhat confused at this point.

There is the license issue of qualifying for upgrading from prior versions.

Then there is an "in-place" upgrade or "clean install" upgrade and reinstalling as "clean install" using your upgrade media that you have proper rights to at a later date. (hard drive fails, etc.)

Plus, the "free" upgrade from Vista offer for new purchases of Vista from June 26 to Jan. 31, 2010. (A sales/marketing use of the term.)

The fact that they appear not to be careful to always modify "upgrade" to indicate whether they are talking about licensing or a software technical procedure or "sales" causes a lot of the present confusion.

Their published upgrade procedure page does seem to be the official answer to that confusion.

Installing and reinstalling Windows

Guess we'll see sometime after October 22nd.

 

[iseeuu]

Thanks for the lengthy post iseeuu, but these are things I already know. I'm not worried about upgrading from RC, nor is "saving" XP/Vista of any consequence to me.

My situation is such that I'm often changing hard drives, and running DBAN to rid sensitive data. I would simply like to be able to install my "Upgrade" DVD onto a system with a blank hard drive present. I don't feel as though I should be required to go back and install XP/Vista, or a 7100 disk image, simply to install Windows 7 immediately afterward. This mandatory redundancy was not present in previous versions, and hopefully it hasn't manifested itself in 7.

That clears things up for me.

There is this old saying: "The man who stops to kick at every barking dog will never reach his destination."

It appears to me (and of course I could be wrong) that the only motivation for your thread is to gripe to us about a change Microsoft might have made ... even though a totally suitable alternative has been supplied by Microsoft.

OK so in the past we booted to our MS CD and started the install, swapped CDs for an older Windows OS, and continued the installation.

How is that less effort than using the Windows 7 "image backup" utility to save an image of the current OS, boot to the 7 DVD, and restore the image to a blank hard drive. You say you often change hard drives. What could be easier and less time consuming than this? You have a current, up-to-date OS on a blank hard drive. You don't have to install any programs, move any settings, apply any back-ups, or install any Windows Updates. And you should be making regular back-ups anyway.

If you don''t like the Windows utility, there are open-source and paid programs to do the same thing.

I certainly do not wish to appear to be unkind, it just causes me to wonder. When my children were little they let me know when they did not get their way. Now that they are adults, when they do not get their way, they find another way to reach their goals, and are quite good at it. They don't waste time kicking at every barking dog.

 

[ddeen]

I really like the Windows 7 RC that I am currently running, but this “Upgrade” path is ridiculous, in fact if I had known that Windows 7 was going to require that you have an activated XP/Vista install on the drive before you upgraded I would not have pre-ordered the upgrade, I would have gotten an OEM edition instead, but of course Microsoft didn’t tell us until AFTER the pre-order that we would be put through much misery installing what they are calling an “Upgrade”

Here is why this Windows 7 “Upgrade” will not be a trivial process, and in fact I would say Microsoft was purposely being vague, and withheld pertinent information about what work will be involved with the “Upgrade” until now. Here is what some of us will have to do every time we re-install.

• Retrieve your Win98, 2000, XP upgrade disk so you can install your XP/Vista upgrade.
• Retrieve your XP or Vista upgrade disk, key code, install and activate (probably requiring a phone call, with much pleading and begging for an activation code that you have to enter manually)
• Then you can finally install your Windows 7 “Upgrade”, where you again enter your key code and activate (hopefully without having to call and beg for activation, at the 1st few re-installs anyway, after that its back to begging and pleading on the phone)

This adds at least another hour to the process for someone that has to re-install their system, which needs to happen somewhat regularly with Windows if you want to keep the performance up. While this hour is somewhat trivial for someone doing it themselves if they have kept up with all their disks and key codes, others will end up not having all the required disks and key codes so they will be stuck buying a full version of windows after they have purchased the upgrade. And even if they have all their disks and key codes they may not be able to convince Microsoft to activate their older OS's.


The upgrade process was perfectly reasonable in XP where it just asked for the original disk, this, however is completely insane. So yes, a saved image will now be another required step for running Windows.

 

[timsart]

Bad news regarding Windows 2000

As of today, the Microsoft store order page no longer states that Windows 2000 qualifies for upgrade version of Windows 7.

It now states:

"You qualify for Windows 7 upgrade versions if you're running genuine Windows Vista or Windows XP on your PC. If you’re running Windows 2000, you’ll need to purchase the full product and do a clean install."

Windows 7 - Buy and download from Microsoft Store

Glad I saved the old versions of this page.

Guess I'll be calling MS sales in the morning to "clarify" this change for myself.

Will post again once I have anything new on this issue.

 

[SIW2]

Hi,

Yes it is odd.

Could you post up a copy of the old page?

Thanks.

 

[Dave76]

Looks like MS doesn't know what their going to do, or just not saying.

Have seen several conflicting explanations from MS on this issue. Seems to be changing frequently.

Good info and links timsart

 

[DeaconFrost]

As of now, nothing has been made official in terms of how the upgrade path will go, if it can be used to do a clean install, etc. The problem is, too many people jumped on the upgrades early, without bothering to do their research to see that nothing was made official.

Halp, I understand this is a confusing issue with no concrete answers, but getting snippy with people who are responding to your thread certainly isn't going to help. If you are changing hard drives often, then you can simply clone your install to a new hard drive. That's always been possible, and certainly won't require a reinstall.

Honestly, if it is that much of a problem, you can always cancel your order and purchase a retail license. If you need several licenses, fit the requirements, and keep the rules, you can get yourself a TechNet subscription, which easily pays for itself.

 

[timsart]

Hi,

Yes it is odd.

Could you post up a copy of the old page?

Thanks.

Sure can.

Rather than trying screen shots, I'm attaching a zip file with the upgrade pages from 7-7-09, 7-12-09 and 9-24-09. (saved complete html pages)

Unzip using folders option so that the sub folders for the pages unzip correctly.

Hope this works.

 

[ddeen]

The problem is, too many people jumped on the upgrades early, without bothering to do their research to see that nothing was made official.

The problem was not that people didn't do their research, we just thought if it said Windows 2000 qualified you for an upgrade to 7 on the official Microsoft website then that was the way it was going to be.

Let's face it folks, Microsoft has been working on 7 for over 3 years now, and they can't even figure out what qualifies you for an upgrade 2 months before they release the product? Please....I can only assume they did it on purpose to inflate 7 Upgrade sales.

 

[DeaconFrost]

The problem was not that people didn't do their research, we just thought if it said Windows 2000 qualified you for an upgrade to 7 on the official Microsoft website then that was the way it was going to be.

For the average joe, I'd agree with you. For the enthusiasts crowd, no, because the upgrade process has been a giant unknown, leading to debate after debate for a long time now.

 

[SIW2]

Thanks timsart,

Nosmo posted this screenie on anither thread :

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/Sumicron/test004.jpg

 

[timsart]

SIW2, thanks for posting that picture of the store site. I thought I had saved a copy of the page during the last month, but could only find my earlier save from 7-7-09.

Regarding the Windows 2000 to Windows 7 upgrade eligibility issue.

Talked to a MS Business sales rep today. He initiated a escalation ticket to resolve this (for my case).

Will probably hear back sometime early next week on their resolution.

 

[Dave76]

Thanks timsart,

Nosmo posted this screenie on anither thread :

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/Sumicron/test004.jpg

I've seen alot of conflicting info on the MS site. Some has been removed but there is still several different pages that are saying different things about the same subject.

Looks like they're trying to figure it out as they go. Not very impressive for an established large company.

Hopefully timsart can shed some light!

 

[timsart]

W2K to Win7 issue update

I am still awaiting final word on my inquiry to MS about the Windows 2000 to Windows 7 upgrade issue.

They are treating it as a separate, individual case issue. So, my resolution will not apply broadly to everyone else.

I strongly suggest that anyone else with the same issue, contact MS sales directly (recommend business sales myself), and start your own case.

[Issue: Purchased Windows 7 Pro upgrade to upgrade from Windows 2000 Pro as offered during the pre-release sale that ended July 11, 2009. MS sales pages indicated that W2K qualified for upgrade during that time. But, MS recently changed their pages (around Sept. 20-24th), to state that W2K did not qualify for upgrade.]

If you pre-ordered Windows 7 upgrades prior last week's MS site changes, you should be able to make your case.

I do recommend starting a case as soon as you can (since the 10-22-09 release is just around the corner).

 

[timsart]

Windows 2000 upgrade to Windows 7 issue resolved

Hey folks,

I have received my official answer from Microsoft regarding my case. I will not post the exact response for privacy reasons. But here is a summary.

MS Rep stated that my case will be resolved by issuing me a set of working (full version?) Windows 7 keys to replace the upgrade keys that will come with my upgrade purchase. The new keys will allow me to "upgrade" from Windows 2000 as offered at the time of my upgrade purchase.

They also confirmed that the current MS store information is correct. Windows 2000 is not now eligible for the upgrade version of Windows 7.

So, in closing, as I stated in my last post, if you bought/pre-ordered a Windows 7 upgrade to upgrade from Windows 2000, start an case with Microsoft sales. Just have documentation to prove your issue to them.

Back to the original subject of this thread, installing/reinstalling on a clean, empty hard drive. I've no more definitive answer than the links I posted earlier from MS site.

I am going to pose the question to the MS rep that resolved my W2K upgrade issue.

 

[SIW2]

Good for you Tim.

Looks like you will have the Full version.

I should think so.

Just shows - you don't get if you don't ask.

Thanks for the update - others should do the same thing.

Who do they contact at MS regarding that?

I have a suspicion a lot of people will be contacting MS saying they were planning to use the upgrade on a system running 2000.

 

[zrtom]

Hey timsart,
Your perserverance on this issue is commendable, as is the time you have taken to share your results with us.
This whole (vague) issue of upgrading has plagued me. I certainly haven't given it the attention you have, probably because of my TechNet subscription. But, I now have clients that I will be doing upgrade installs for and the issue is getting close at hand. Where did you initiate your contact with Microsoft on the Windows 2000 issue?

As for the more general upgrade question, it looks like only time will tell and come Oct. 22, we'll know how the upgrades can and cannot be installed.
Tom

 

[whs]

timsart, congratulations for getting your problem resolved. It always helps to put your foot down. I have a slightly different Win7 upgrade problem and would be interested to know via which channel you got the right Microsoft department (phone number or mail).