Still on Windows XP? Here’s Some Bad Advice

[whs]

@Jimbo, speaking of PowerPoint tutorials - did you see this one that I made. But around here they don't seem to like PP tutorials when I suggested that. I think they are great, but a lot of work.

PowerPoint - Make striking presentations and tutorials | PC Help Forum

 

[TanyaC]

I have been running all day with Linux Mint Mate from my USB Flash drive. If I wanted to stay on XP, that's what I would use for all internet work.

I'd have to agree with you. Though, I moved for different reasons. The introduction of Windows 8, Removal of Aero, the focus on "cloud-based" and the cancellation of Technet pushed me on to Linux Mint.

With the exception of two spread sheets I use excel 2010 for, which are almost complete applications in their own right and some media re-encoding, I use Linux mint almost entirely on most of my machines now.

The learning curve was not that big. Perhaps because I ran Linux in the mid - late 90's when I was running a hobby ISP, and it's also a lot more user friendly now than it was 20 years ago. I'd estimate I spent a total of 15 hours re-learning stuff to get the systems behaving the way I wanted.

The simplistic tasks many use XP for could easily be solved by Linux at [almost] no cost.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

TanyaC: I guess I'm not sure how you deal with the Excel spreadsheets you use? Do you dualboot to a Windows installation when you need to use Excel? I would doubt Mint has an Excel-compatible spreadsheet. If you dualboot, you still need some sort of Windows, which brings you back to square 1 on the endeavour to live without Windows.
Same for Word etc. I realize Linux may have options, but most professionals need to exchange documents, and that is where you depend on Windows.
I'm an engineer and believe 100% of my designsoftware is Windows-only and there is no alternative unless I want to be lonely without the rest of the industry. In addition most employers use Outlook which also has no alternative in corporate world.
I'm not sure a professional firm can live without Windows. ..maybe some webdesign or graphics business could be on Mac, but have real hard time imagining a Linux Firm being succesful.
I'd like to hear someone who works for the City of Munich how they operate, but doubt they do design work etc.

 

[lehnerus2000]

You could just use a Windows VM on a Linux distro (for files like the ones TanyaC mentioned).

My Windows VMs run smoother on Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) using VMware Player, than they do on W7 using VMware Workstation.

 

[TanyaC]

TanyaC: I guess I'm not sure how you deal with the Excel spreadsheets you use? Do you dualboot to a Windows installation when you need to use Excel?

Yes, I dual Boot. They are fairly complex.

I would doubt Mint has an Excel-compatible spreadsheet.

Depends on what you mean by "compatible". There are several options, Only for extremely complex stuff I still use Excel, but only for as long as I have to.

which brings you back to square 1 on the endeavor to live without Windows.

I accept that. To a point. Of the 11 machines here at home, only 1 is still solely Windows. A year ago they were all Windows. This 1 is my 2008 R2 server. And the only reason is that I just haven't had time to convert it to Linux.

Same for Word etc. I realize Linux may have options, but most professionals need to exchange documents, and that is where you depend on Windows.

I have no problem sharing documents, of any sort, between windows and Linux applications. There are several options available.

But the point was not to live without Windows. For me it was a statement of disgust with Microsoft.

However, this thread is about alternatives to Windows XP. My point was, for the most part, Linux CAN fill most needs. Perhaps not in corporations (Though one company I worked for which is a multinational - they are headed down the Linux path as much as possible).

Compatibility with data is not as big an issue as some would make it out to be.

In terms of cost, Linux might be a better choice than MAC.

Also, if we close our eyes and say "Windows is life, life is Windows", then we will be forever trapped in a paradigm that will have us forking out ever increasing amounts for less and less services in a world where we have less and less control over our own infrastructure, and be manipulated even further into mindless consumerism.

 

[pabuman]

So, what to do? only update?

 

[andrew129260]

So, what to do? only update?

Yup. Or move to a android tablet since most users browse the web and thats all they do anyway. I would like to say that around 70% of the general public use their computers almost completely for just a web browser. If your like most people and that is all you do, you don't need something complex like windows. Ubuntu or a tablet of some sort suits most people just fine. It's the main reason tablets are so popular. People started to realize the only thing they use their PC for is to browse the web.

Many options out there.

TanyaC: I guess I'm not sure how you deal with the Excel spreadsheets you use? Do you dualboot to a Windows installation when you need to use Excel?

Yes, I dual Boot. They are fairly complex.

Why not just use Wine? Emulates windows software almost perfectly, including office. Why bother with dual booting?

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
@WHs etc

Here's a snapshot of me running Windows 8.1 enterprise as a VM on Linux Mate 16 (petra) running totally on an external USB HDD. I'd removed the laptop's HDD just to be 100% certain I wasn't using ANYTHING on the internal HDD.

I'm running SAMBA server (built in) to share the /HOME Linux file with windows (for Windows to read the data). Samba is built in in Linux mate. You don't even need to configure anything - just install the samba-conf gui and then simply click sharing just like windows -- it does it all for you.

(Windows partitions can be automatically read / written so you don't need to do anything there).
This way you can create say common data folder on Linux and store stuff ANY of your windows VM's might want so you don't have to boot up all the VM's at once. - Networking is a Doddle in Linux compared with windows !!!!!!).

Same works for Windows XP as a VM or anything else. Your Host Linux can access the rest of your network if it has access as well

Seemples !!!!!!

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Nigsy]

Here's my openSUSE running W8.1 via Oracle Virtual box. I don't use Samba as I don't need the PC networked to any others in the house, so I use the VM network tool to access the required folders on mu SUSE instal and just drag and drop between the OS's. Much cleaner than a dual boot in my opinion as you can run both at the same time.
MS Excel is the only thing that keeps me from going 100% linux due to some of the VB scripts I run. I have the occasional hic cup with Word files; but if you don't over format or try to use custom styles you can overcome this (Use Libre Office). I know one poster said that Linux breaks all the time; but I've had less issues with SUSE than I did with W7 and very rarely get issues. I will concede getting the network adaptor to work was a pain!!

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Ms office (particularly EXCEL), Photoshop, SKY GO+ Netfix etc (stupid services still need Silverlight and STOOOOOOOPID DRM) and some recoding stuff still producing VINYL for people - often using the Minidisc system for recording at the live gigs - record music via Minidisc / transfer to computer via XP software and then burn to vinyl via XP. Also some older LARGE size printers (A2 at Pro quality and high res scanners etc).

Incidentally a good use for samba is for example if you have an internal SD / Micro Sd reader often XP / Win7 / Win 8 won't find drivers but Linux mint found them - /dev/mmc0nnnnnnn where nnnn is a UUID. By setting this up as a SAMBA share any of my computers on the network (REAL or Virtual machines) can access the micro sd card --it's 64GB so useful storage and FAT32 formatted so you can define Windows partitions as samba shares if these are mounted on te Linux machine.

I'm even more convinced of using Linux as companies are moving into that HIDEOUS SUBSCRIPTION model --office 365 in UK costs inc VAT around 100 GBP a year (EUR 135) or even more -- Office 2010 which is what I'm using cost me now ZERO . Libre Office while good is still not a 100% replacement for Ms Office.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[whs]

You guys are inspiring. I was not so lucky to run virtual systems with VMware Player on my Mint from a 16GB stick. It ran but it was like molasses. The virtual systems are on an external eSata attached 240GB SSD. I have several flavors of Mint, Zorin and Windows 8,1. Running them from my Windows 7 host is no problem. Performance is like a native installation, But from the stick it was too slow.

I am perfecting my 120GB stick now. It has Linux Mint Mate and a data partition on it. I am working on a tutorial to explain this setup. Here is a beta version of the tutorial which is still missing a couple of videos and some fine tuning.

 

[TanyaC]

TanyaC: I guess I'm not sure how you deal with the Excel spreadsheets you use? Do you dualboot to a Windows installation when you need to use Excel?

Yes, I dual Boot. They are fairly complex.

Why not just use Wine? Emulates windows software almost perfectly, including office. Why bother with dual booting?

True, but I'd already set my system up for dual boot when I first installed Mint because I wasn't sure if I was going to stay with it. Pure laziness that's all. When I get some time I will give Wine a try.

The spreadsheets are quite complex. They have to be set to manual calculate because of the time it takes to re-calculate. Hopefully performance will be just as good under Wine.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
If you are using a USB stick then you really need a 32GB USB3 stick plugged into a USB3 port -- the difference ibetween running a USB2 stick and USB3 stick makes using one a real pain only to be used in an emergency whereas on a USB3 port it's quite usable.

The best solution of course is to use an SSD -- I was lucky as I had two older 120 SSD's which I'd replaced by 250 GB ones in two laptops - so these were "spare". I now use these as the portable systems and they are fine.

Just being doing final updates of an Eng. and an Isl version of XP before the shutdown in a few days -- although all updates until the shutdown for XP WILL still be available for an unspecified time in the future.

Note also if you use MSE as your XP security package updates will CONTINUE to be provided until May 2015 so you've still got a lot of time left -- Ms kept that one fairly quiet " !!.

@Tanya -EXCEL on Wine - particularly 2010 is rather "iffy" -- it's much easier to use a VM in UNITY mode and simply have a link to EXCEL on your Linux desktop.

Depending on your Linux distro there's several script around for adding the Icon and link to the HOST desktop.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[bawldiggle]

Quite liked the videos but for Tutorials I still think it's easier - especially for "First time" or "Noobie" Linux users to have a "Static" presentation such as a Powerpoint session or even a PDF / HTML / Word doc with pictures.

The problem with Videos and You Tube is that you are forced to go over at the Tutors rate -- with a document (whether on the screen or a printed doc) you can go at your own pace, make notes and easily re-review stuff you might have missed / not understood first time round.

Agreed!
I try to save web pages and even long winded TXT files as PDF. Then add my own bookmarks in the PDF.
PDF allows me to add comments without destroying the original and bookmarks give me instant access to the "bits" I need to review several times.

I use mozilla addon "Print pages to PDF" to save web pages (and emails) and Free "PDF-Xchange" to bookmark and comment out the PDF document.
-----

Two of my AutoCad rigs are standalone XP. No internet connection ever! 11-years and 9-years old.
Neither PC has missed a beat in all those years, the older PC has had a hard life working 15+ hours per day.
For online I am glad I have Win7 ... but recently whs has swayed me over to "Mint Mate"
Experimenting!
-----
.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

Maybe I'm missing something... but to use Windows in VM you still need a legit license, right? So where is the savings?
And when you say Linux is compatible to Excel files, do you mean you can open and work on an Excel file inc. macros that a company sends you?
And for the applications you have in VM, can you copy&paste between VM and Linux?
As long as you have one single Windows Application it seems more a waste of time than a benefit. No offense if that is your hobby, to each his own. I really wonder what type of jobs you guys have. I can't imagine being at work switching between OS for each application. I work with multiple entities and all use Office.
And what IT department wants to deal with users that hangle between 2 OS? They have enough trouble with us all having one OS and Office with all its associated issues... but throw in Linux and tech people to use VM..... I guess show me one single large company that is succesful with that and I would consider the option. It just doesn't seem to exist outside this Forum

 

[whs]

Maybe I'm missing something... but to use Windows in VM you still need a legit license, right? So where is the savings?

When you run e.g. 8.1 in virtual, the virtual system becomes the home. With that virtual system you can go to any PC and run it without problems. So single license but multiple PCs - and completely legal.

There were reports on Cnet that companies run XP now under Linux/VM because they think that protects them from malware. Some clever salesman must have sold them that solution - probably for a lot of money. What they don't know is that this does not protect them at all. As soon as they go on the internet with their virtual XP they are as much exposed as they were with a natively installed XP.

Running a version of Linux for the internet is a completely different story. There you are a LOT less exposed to malware than with Windows.

This post was made with Linux on a stick.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

so a company has 100 employees and 100 PCs.. how do they not still need 100 windows licenses unless they share the stick with the virtual system?

 

[whs]

We are not talking about companies. They can afford 100 licenses. We are talking about home users that don't want to make an investment into e.g. Windows 8.

Or about somebody like me who has homes in 3 different locations and carries his virtual systems on a SSD. No need to keep all those operating systems (6) updated 3 times - including all the user files.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

We are not talking about companies. They can afford 100 licenses. We are talking about home users that don't want to make an investment into e.g. Windows 8.

Or about somebody like me who has homes in 3 different locations and carries his virtual systems on a SSD. No need to keep all those operating systems (6) updated 3 times - including all the user files.

I'm not sure this discussion covers normal home users... those have one desktop and a tablets etc.
that original articles was advice for people that just have a PC at home and probably barely know how to turn it on. Someone like you who knows much about PCs wasn't really the target audience of that article.

I agree with your use VM may make sense... but this rarely is applicable to normal home users. someone else talked about 11 PCs at home... this clearly is not a topic for people that just use the PC to do stuff, this is a topic for people who use the PC for the sake of doing so

 

[whs]

Agree, these are fun projects for people who like to discover new things. And sometimes (like in my case) they are useful. But as you say, 90% of PC users struggle finding the start key and would get glazy eyes if you presented projects like that.

I was an instructor at the local computer club (800 members) for several years. I finally gave up because people that had used PCs for 20 years knew nothing - even not the basics. All they were able to do was to click on the 5 icons on their desktop. It was too frustrating to deal with those guys. Every time I was talking about some system function they yelled 'advanced, advanced' as if that was a disease.