System Image Backup Strategies/Thoughts

[Victor S]

Just want to make a few comments, and invite discussion about this.
It might help some people, and I might learn something.
I know circumstances differ for different users, and I can only speak from the perspective of a home user.
And as a user who wants to install and tweak Windows only once, and wants to install and tweak my "always used" apps only once.
For example, my XP system lasted 5 years, and my Win 7 is almost 3 years old.
I'm pretty "serious" about imaging, even keeping a sysprepped image in case I need to go to a different motherboard.

1. All too often I see folks having problems because their system image backups include data not on the system partition They either run out of space, or it takes hours upon hours to do a backup. This discourages taking system images, and eventually leads to getting stuck between a rock and a hard place. I really think that encouraging keeping system images separate from data back-up would keep many people from getting caught in that trap. Am I dreaming?

2. All too often I see folks with huge system partitions, which basically leads to the above same frustrations - imaging non-system data. This is a big problem, because many store-bought computers are set up like this, and by the time they get to imaging, it's difficult to get them set up with a good configuration. I always roll my own PC's, and I don't know the answer for this. Might not be a good one, unless the PC sellers take it upon themselves.

3. I don't agree that system images should be time-scheduled. I image because of events. Any event changing my system that I want to keep - for example a new app, Windows updates, app updates, gets imaged - but the timing is up to me.
I don't see any value in imaging a system that has apps I don't want to keep, or uninstalled apps that have left garbage behind, and maybe the system even has a virus that hasn't shown itself yet.
This means I *always* restore my previous image before making a new image.
Then reinstall the new app(s) or redo the updates, which were the event(s) causing me to decide to image. Then I immediately make a new image. Always a full discrete system image. I keep a few prior images around for some time before I delete them. Just in case. But I don't recall using a single one of them.
Redoing updates doesn't take long, nor does reinstalling and retweaking an app.
That work will be on the new image, and I never have to do it again.

Just for reference, I have a 100gb system partition, but my system images hover around 20gb. Using Ghost 15, taking an image or running a restore itself runs 4 minutes. I only image/restore cold, so there's some minutes taken by booting.
All spinners. Sometimes I don't take an image for 4 months. Sometimes I take 2 in one week. It all depends on what I want on my image.
A good app I want to keep gets the process. SP1 got the process.

Anyway, this strategy has worked very well for me, and might serve as a template for others. There should be no reason for not being able to restore a good system image, unless you don't have a good plan. Not counting Murphy's law.
Fight Murphy's law! Don't give up! Fight!

 

[Brds7t7]

I take two images a week with both windows backup and Macrium. I just managed to get the pro version at a cheaper price than the standard version so I can do differential backups with it now

I make a folder backup of my data partition separately on a folder to folder basis

I don't like the idea of packing my data into image files in case one gets corrupted.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Victor:

I agree with most of your sentiments and points 1 and 2 in particular.

I agree only with the first part of your third point.

Specifically--I never restore an image before making a new one. I would never overwrite a properly working good system. I prefer not to take that risk. Murphy's Law, as you mention. If I were to restore an image containing unwanted apps, so be it---I'd just uninstall the unwanted apps after the restoration.

I never schedule images--they are all done manually when I see fit. On average, I make an image maybe 6 times a year. I keep 3: the oldest and the 2 newest.

I have never restored an image---I've never had to and hope I never do.

All my images are full images of C only---a relatively small partition (under 100 GB). I don't want the complication of incrementals.

I have no data on C and never image my separate data drive. I don't want the complication of images standing between me and my data backups. Each of my 3 hard drives (Windows, data, and backup) has a single partition.

 

[kado897]

OK this is my backup strategy. It definitely overkill but I'm paranoid about backups.

1. Using the Pro version of Macrium one full image each week of my C: drive (very little data on it). Maximum of 3 kept.
2. Differentials daily. Differentials not incrementals.
3. Monthly image with Windows backup to a different disk after "patch Tuesday". Three or four kept.
4. Daily data backups using FreeFileSync. Mirroring with versions.
5. Family photos on SkyDrive.

I have had to restore a couple of times in the past year when I had some dodgy RAM causing BSODS.

The reason for my paranoia. I spent several days rebuilding a mainframe installation because proper backups were not taken.

 

[Roderunner]

This is the short version of my backup (imaging) strategy.
When an installed app gets an update. Before installing a new app.
I use Acronis 2010 'One Click' method to create a System Image of C: on an external USB hdd. to a folder named as the backup date, it also has a note of what I've done to my pc including portable apps & an image of 'Programs and features' so I know whats been installed.

 

[Victor S]

ignatzasonic:
Restoring an image is second-nature to me. I couldn't trust any imaging I couldn't test. I've restored many times, and it's never failed. It helps that it takes only 5 minutes. For the sake of safety, when doing it the first time with a new OS or new imaging software, I suggest it be done on a spare HD. That's what I did with XP and Win 7, and when first trying Ghost 15 and Win 7 backup. That way you can't lose your install.
We just have a different perspective on "working OS." Since I sometimes go months with the system, I see it as "old, cluttered, and maybe dangerous."
I have much more confidence in my images, since what they contain is much fresher.
Basically the image contains the OS and apps freshly installed and tweaked, with hardly any exposure to anything that could cause corruption. And I know that because I've always run the system taken from the image for some time.
I do image to at least 2 HD's and occasionally to a 3rd. Not copies, but separate images at one sitting.
Except for that, we're on the same page.

kado897:
Yes, you're paranoid. But that doesn't mean your computer isn't plotting against you.

 

[kado897]

kado897:
Yes, you're paranoid. But that doesn't mean your computer isn't plotting against you.

:roflmao:

 

[Brds7t7]

Well I do make a differential backup of my data partition once a day.

Does that make me paranoid too?

I'm looking over my shoulder as I write this!

 

[kado897]

The men in white coats are coming to take you away......

 

[Brds7t7]

What again?

 

[pincushion]

I'm a bit with Victor in that if I have any sort of problems after installing, updating or removing anything then I will restore an image and then redo to a good working system. I have restored many images, dozens probably, with Macrium Free edition and earlier with Acronis. None have ever shown any problems so that is as reliable as I would want. I tend to take an image every 2 - 3 weeks it seems after a certain amount of general updating, software changes, tweaking, hardware changes etc. but probably I could wait longer since most changes could be redone without much effort and I make a note of all changes to the system.

Imaging takes about 10 minutes and the images are backed up to a second internal drive and to an external drive. I normally have about 6 - 8 images to rely on and delete random intermediate images thus keeping some of the older ones and the most recent images. I image to a partition on the second drive and that image is backed up to a partition on the first drive. The fact that apart from one incident (going back about 6 images) I have just had to restore the last image seems to me to show my system works fine.

I think that reducing the system partition down to the minimum by separating the OS and programs from all data and temporary stuff does help. I manage with a 60 GB system partition.


:huh:

 

[OldMX]

I have a clean install image created with macrium reflect free, and a second one that gets updated and replaced every week. For quick inbetweens i use drive snapshot.

 

[Victor S]

Some interesting perspectives, all workable. I really think many people waste their time system imaging, giving up as soon as it gives them problems, usually space related, because they image data along with the system.
Or they've bought a PC with just one huge system partition.
But it is what it is, and I would never discourage taking images.
Personally, I use imaging for 2 reasons, both related to my aversion to reinstalling everything, and retweaking everything. Really, many of us have *years* invested in setting things up as we like them. Who wants to redo all that?

1. I want my system back to a clean version in 5 minutes, no matter what I do to it, what a virus might do to it, or what a hardware fault might do to it. Sure, I use a firewall and anti-virus, but they aren't perfect. Like most everybody else here I also install and try a lot of unsuitable software. I want no trace of it left in my system. For those reasons, when I want a new base image, I always restore my last image, do my app install and/or updates, then immediately create the new base image. It's all very fast to do, and I'm totally relaxed tinkering, downloading, and browsing the internet. Because my system is invincible!!

2. All the images in the world are for naught if they won't restore. You see that sometimes on this forum. As I said, I would never discourage taking an image, but also recommend they be tested. Maybe not the best analogy, but think about having flashights for a power outage, then when the power goes out, the flashlight batteries are dead. Since I do restores as part of my imaging process, I have total
confidence in my images. BTW, even massive mainframe systems test their disaster recovery process by doing restores. I've been involved in them and it's huge deal. Never saw one go smoothly either. Imaging a PC is relative child's play.
Here's what brought me to this fine forum in the first place, looking for an answer.
Your normal system images are worthless in a common circumstance - different motherboard.
I don't know about others, but I've had a couple MB's fail.
That nagged me, because I think my Win 7 system will outlive my MB, beacuse the MB will fail, or I want to upgrade.
Here I found a good tutorial:
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/135077-windows-7-installation-transfer-new-computer.html
So I made a sysprepped image, and tested it on an entirely different PC. It worked.
Now I do the occasional sysprep image, and don't hear the nagging anymore.

Anyway, that's my basic perspective. It's worked since imaging software was sold.
I've always used a version of Ghost, but understand there's other similar software.
I think discrete images, independent of Windows internals are best. Give the image any name you like, keep it where you like, move it where you like, rename it as you like. Doesn't matter. The imaging software shouldn't care, you just point at it, and it gets restored.
That's why I didn't care for the Windows 7 imaging when I tested it. Too many gotchas, and differentials don't fit in my process.
There are ways around that, by renaming, but I just don't want to deal with it when Ghost takes completely portable partition images, and has always been flawless for me.
I also only do cold imagiing/restores. Don't know exactly what that buys me, but it's always worked and keeps me focused on exactly what I'm doing.
So Windows is shut down while I image. I can take it!

 

[Brds7t7]

I used to take an image every time I installed anything new or made any little change.

I tend to test more of my software in virtualbox nowadays so I don't take so many images now.

I have one separate for a fresh install on two different drives (as I'd be unhappy if one of the fresh installs was corrupt). I have my System Reserved set at 350mb and all the WinRE tools placed onto that partition. Keeping that fresh install saves me having to change all the partitions, set the tools up and change all the bcd settings.

 

[boyboyds]

You save your image backups to external HD - makes sense.

You keep all personal data files on Drive D: - makes sense.

It seems that you use some imaging software and not W7 native imaging tool.... why is that...?

And if your internal HD dies, how do you restore from the image backup, do you need some additional software for this.....?

Or you just plug in the external HD into the PC and it automatically copy it to the new internal
HD.....?

Thanks,
BBDS

 

[Brds7t7]

You save your image backups to external HD - makes sense.

You keep all personal data files on Drive D: - makes sense.

It seems that you use some imaging software and not W7 native imaging tool.... why is that...?

And if your internal HD dies, how do you restore from the image backup, do you need some additional software for this.....?

Or you just plug in the external HD into the PC and it automatically copy it to the new internal
HD.....?

Thanks,
BBDS

Boyboyds,

If you use windows imaging or macrium you just create a rescue disc or startup repair disc and you boot into that then restore the image from your external hdd.

 

[Brds7t7]

Also some people don't use the Windows imaging utility as it's not as flexible as Macrium.

 

[boyboyds]

I am sorry, but I am still confused about the backup issue.

I know I created W7 image backup using Windows Image Backup utility. It is about 20-25 gig (about 5 DVDs).

What will happen when I put in a new internal HDD and insert these DVDs.....?

Will it load W7 .....?


Thanks,
BBDS

 

[ignatzatsonic]

What will happen when I put in a new internal HDD and insert these DVDs.....?

Will it load W7 .....?

Not directly, in the sense you see every time you boot your PC now.

Image files are not bootable.

You have to "restore" the image file in order to make a new bootable C partition. The image file in an unrestored state isn't of much use.

DVDs are not recommended unless you have no choice--they are just more prone to restoration problems. The better choice is to make an image file and store it on some other hard drive.

 

[Brds7t7]

Boyboyds, you would boot into the Windows recovery environment from your system repair disc or windows install disc then while in recovery choose "Restore my computer from a system image"
It will then ask you where the image is stored.

I agree with Ignatz, saving an image on DVD's is risky. If one disc gets damaged the whole image will be useless.