System image, clone, and restore points

[betaupsilon]

If you do a search for macrium image restore points you can find a lot of hits about this.
Here is one thread i found on the Macrium forum about this:
Windows RESTORE POINTS... are they imaged?

Well Dave,
I do not see any definitive solutions in this thread. Unless you do please point it out. They simply seem to debate on why or why not they can be restored.

Thanks

 

[Layback Bear]

Just for your information.
You are using Windows 7 Enterprise.
I know nothing about Enterprise.
Most Enterprise operating system are controlled by a I.T. Department of one kind or another.
Enterprise cost way to much money for me the get and tinker with.

What I did is in the first post in this thread.
I have no idea whether it will work in Windows Enterprise or not.
I.T. Departments use many methods to backup systems. I doubt they use a Clone of any kind; but then again I have also never worked in a I.T. Department.

What I did. Windows 7/64 Pro.

1. Made a Clone using Macrium Reflect.
2. Booted into Clone
3. Using System Protection, turned on system protection for the Clone.
4. Rebooted into Clone.
5. Completed Microsoft Fixit

Note:
Protection is turned on both the original and Clone drives.
Of course my original Windows 7 had Restore Point. They were Cloned over to the other ssd but would not work until I did as I have stated.


https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/982736

6. Rebooted into Clone.
7. Verified my restore point disc percent was at least 5%. It varies at times.
8. Created a NEW Restore Point

Things work as I want them two.
I will stop now so I can boot into my Clone and see if I can find any more information.

Will be back.
------------------------
Okay I'm back (6:55) booted into my Clone.

Here is what I end up with

 

[DavidE]

If you do a search for macrium image restore points you can find a lot of hits about this.
Here is one thread i found on the Macrium forum about this:
Windows RESTORE POINTS... are they imaged?

Well Dave,
I do not see any definitive solutions in this thread. Unless you do please point it out. They simply seem to debate on why or why not they can be restored.

Thanks

I don't know if there is a solution, i was just pointing out you are not the only person having this issue.
I have Macrium free, I use imaging, I don't use cloning, and I don't use restore points, so for me this is not an issue.

Here's another Macrium thread where they acknowledge there is an issue, it's from Macrium V5, i don't know if anything changed in V6.
Macrium Support Forum - Include Windows Restore points in Image

 

[RolandJS]

"...It DOES apply to cloning as well. Check the ADVANCED options which by default does INTELLIGENT sector copy..." betaupsilon
Thanks for the correction! I did not know that I have to check into Cloning's Advanced menu to see other choices.

 

[DavidE]

You can change the defaults to personal preferences in the Menu bar / Other Tasks / Edit Defaults.

 

[Layback Bear]

That is exactly how mine is and was set.
I presume that is Default because that is the way I left and used Cloning.

 

[DavidE]

Yea, these are the installed defaults, i don't use cloning, so i would not change them.
For imaging, defaults can be changed in the Compression option.

I've always used the default settings, i never used/tested the Forenzic Sector copy option.
I keep several backup images, so the image size is something important to me.

 

[betaupsilon]

What I did. Windows 7/64 Pro.

1. Made a Clone using Macrium Reflect.
2. Booted into Clone
3. Using System Protection, turned on system protection for the Clone.
4. Rebooted into Clone.
5. Completed Microsoft Fixit

Note:
Protection is turned on both the original and Clone drives.
Of course my original Windows 7 had Restore Point. They were Cloned over to the other ssd but would not work until I did as I have stated.


https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/982736

6. Rebooted into Clone.
7. Verified my restore point disc percent was at least 5%. It varies at times.
8. Created a NEW Restore Point

Things work as I want them two.
I will stop now so I can boot into my Clone and see if I can find any more information.

? on making the clone: Did you run MACRIUM from WIN PE or WIN PRO?

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
I was under the impression people use system imaging as a replacement for windows horrible system restore points
Possibly that is just why I use Reflect system imaging
System protection off Reflect On.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...Both the sector by sector choice and the intelligent copy choice only pertain to imaging, not to cloning...

Actually, at least in the Pro version, one does have a choice between Forensic Sector Cloning and Intelligent Sector Cloning.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I just cloned a HDD to an SSD with Macrium, same as Jack did, I have no idea what any of that sector by sector or intelligent sector stuff is, it just worked by clicking clone this drive.

Intelligent Sector is the default.

Intelligent sector cloning or imaging simply means only the sectors with any data in them are cloned or imaged. Empty sectors are ignored.

Forensic Sector cloning or imaging means all sectors whether empty or not, are cloned or imaged.

 

[Brds7t7]

I'm pretty sure intelligent sector copy also skips copying the hiberfil.sys and pagefile.sys files too.
These aren't needed in the copy and will be automatically created when you boot up the clone anyway.

This keeps the size of the copies down considerably.

 

[DavidE]

OK,
The FIXIT tool did not change anything even after rebooting. I pulled the RIP CORD & manually enabled SYS PROTECTION. I still cannot see the RESTORE PTS, but the Disk Usage did not drop to ZERO. So those points must still exist.

Any suggestions?

WizTree can show what files and space are used in the System Volume Information folder.
They have a Portable Zip available, no install needed.
Antibody Software - WizTree finds the files and folders using the most disk space on your hard drive

 

[betaupsilon]

Just for your information.
You are using Windows 7 Enterprise.
I know nothing about Enterprise.
Most Enterprise operating system are controlled by a I.T. Department of one kind or another.
Enterprise cost way to much money for me the get and tinker with.

What I did is in the first post in this thread.
I have no idea whether it will work in Windows Enterprise or not.
I.T. Departments use many methods to backup systems. I doubt they use a Clone of any kind; but then again I have also never worked in a I.T. Department.

What I did. Windows 7/64 Pro.

1. Made a Clone using Macrium Reflect.
2. Booted into Clone
3. Using System Protection, turned on system protection for the Clone.
4. Rebooted into Clone.
5. Completed Microsoft Fixit

Note:
Protection is turned on both the original and Clone drives.
Of course my original Windows 7 had Restore Point. They were Cloned over to the other ssd but would not work until I did as I have stated.


https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/982736

6. Rebooted into Clone.
7. Verified my restore point disc percent was at least 5%. It varies at times.
8. Created a NEW Restore Point

Layback,
I still have had no success. Did you run MACRIUM from the WIN PE environment or were you booted normally? Also, did you leave your source drive connected when you booted into your clone? I think if you disconnect the source drive your RESTORE PTS might disappear. If they do then your RESTORE PTS probably did not transfer as you thought.

If you could, let me know.

THANX

 

[Layback Bear]

From post #34.

Layback,

I still have had no success. Did you run MACRIUM from the WIN PE environment or were you booted normally? Also, did you leave your source drive connected when you booted into your clone? I think if you disconnect the source drive your RESTORE PTS might disappear. If they do then your RESTORE PTS probably did not transfer as you thought.

If you could, let me know.

Their is no need for a WIN PE when using a Clone.

If the restore point were on the original drive then they are on the Clone. A Clone is a Clone.

Disconnecting the source drive after the Clone is complete does nothing to the Clone. How could it.
I can boot and use the original Windows 7 normally and boot into the Clone normally and use both in a normal fashion.
Of course only one at a time.

You are making the Clone process way to complicated.
Some how you might be getting the Clone process and the Image process mixed or confused.

Watch the video in my post #9 again.

 

[betaupsilon]

If the restore point were on the original drive then they are on the Clone. A Clone is a Clone.

You are making the Clone process way to complicated.
Some how you might be getting the Clone process and the Image process mixed or confused.

Watch the video in my post #9 again.

Layback,
I think I found my problem. Below is from MJF regarding DISK SIGNATURES & RESTORE PTS in item #3. My DISK SIGNATURE is not the same on my clone. Did you manage to maintain identical signatures? If so how?

"This quote could be relevant to the discussion:
Source: "Acronis True Image WD Edition", 2000-2010, pp.48

When MBR recovery is chosen, the "Recover disk signature" box will appear in the bottom left corner at the next step. Recovering disk signature may be desirable due to the following reasons:
1. Acronis True Image WD Edition creates scheduled tasks using the signature of the source hard disk. If you recover the same disk signature, you don't need to re-create or edit the tasks created previously.
2. Some installed applications use disk signature for licensing and other purposes.
3. If you use Windows Restore Points, they will be lost when the disk signature is not recovered.
4. In addition, recovering disk signature allows to recover VSS snapshots used by Windows Vista and Windows 7's "Previous Versions" feature.
If the box is unselected, Acronis True Image WD Edition generates a new disk signature for the recovered drive. This may be needed when you use an image backup not for disaster recovery but for cloning your Windows Vista hard drive to another one. Trying to boot Windows after cloning with both drives connected will result in a problem. During Windows booting, its loader checks the disk signatures of all the connected drives, and if it finds two identical disk signatures, the loader changes the signature of the second disk, which would be the clone disk. Once this happens, the clone disk would not be able to boot up independently of the original disk, because the MountedDevices fields in the clone's registry reference the disk signature of the original disk, which will not be available if the original disk is disconnected."

The section of the same reference:
14.3.6 Cloning with Manual Partitions
may also be of interest

 

[mjf]

You can't have identical disk signatures on 2 connected MBR drives. Windows 7 at one stage would put the second drive with an identical disk signature offline. Then at some stage (I guess an old update) Windows automatically changed the disk signature of the second drive to avoid a disk signature clash. What I believe Macrium does in the intelligent sector copy cloning is to also change the disk signature in the BCD so your clone will boot.

If you transfer your OS to a new drive using system imaging it will retain the original disk signature on the new drive. The original and new reimaged drive should not be both physically connected at the same time. But again I don't think you will keep your restore points. I don't rely on restore points so it isn't an issue for me.

 

[DavidE]

I don't use restore points because i don't trust them, i've read too many threads/posts where they don't work reliably, and they are not a "full" backup.
As an alternative i now use Macrium DIFFERENTIAL images, if/when i want a quick backup before making some change i'm not sure of.
You might consider using differentials rather than relying on restore points.

Also, I see an issue/error in your screen print in Post #18 where there is a listing for a Missing (duplicate) drive/partition.
You should figure out why you have that entry and fix it.



I have multi-boot PC's, and i don't assign a drive letter to the other (non-booted) OS drives/partitions.

 

[betaupsilon]

I don't use restore points because i don't trust them, i've read too many threads/posts where they don't work reliably, and they are not a "full" backup.
As an alternative i now use Macrium DIFFERENTIAL images, if/when i want a quick backup before making some change i'm not sure of.
You might consider using differentials rather than relying on restore points.

Also, I see an issue/error in your screen print in Post #18 where there is a listing for a Missing (duplicate) drive/partition.
You should figure out why you have that entry and fix it.

View attachment 387155

I have multi-boot PC's, and i don't assign a drive letter to the other (non-booted) OS drives/partitions.

The MISSING drive is the SOURCE drive. I disconnect it when I boot into the clone to be sure there is no DISK clashing or confusion..

 

[betaupsilon]

You can't have identical disk signatures on 2 connected MBR drives. Windows 7 at one stage would put the second drive with an identical disk signature offline. Then at some stage (I guess an old update) Windows automatically changed the disk signature of the second drive to avoid a disk signature clash. What I believe Macrium does in the intelligent sector copy cloning is to also change the disk signature in the BCD so your clone will boot.

If you transfer your OS to a new drive using system imaging it will retain the original disk signature on the new drive. The original and new reimaged drive should not be both physically connected at the same time. But again I don't think you will keep your restore points. I don't rely on restore points so it isn't an issue for me.

I understand the disdain for RESTORE PTS, but there is some merit to their utility. You are correct that the RESTORE PTS will not be preserved in imaging. I have tried that on numerous experiments. Layback somehow got his to work by cloning & I cannot. It would appear the DISK SIGNATURE is my hang up based on the info I read from your posts in the past. So Layback circumvented this how? Did he reassign the DISK SIGNATURE? He does not indicate that he did.

From his statements he supposedly can swap 1 drive out for the other & that is what I want to do as well. That I can do, but the RESTORE PTS are either not accessible or do not exist.