Ubuntu 9.10 and Windows 7

[jc4gavejc]

Ubuntu 9.10 and Windows 7 are going to be released about the same time; how does everyone think each release will affect the other?

 

[masterB]

I'll get both of them

 

[pparks1]

Well, Ubuntu is released every 6 months and is usually in high demand by Linux users. Honestly, neither is going to impact the other as far as I am concerned.

I'm a LInux and a Windows user...and Ubuntu is my linux desktop distro of choice...so I plan to download and use it. I'm currently using 9.04.

 

[Mark Phelps]

Since I currently run both Seven and Ubuntu 9.04, I think I can say that neither release is going to "affect the other". However ...

I have already installed Seven in dual-boot mode on a tablet PC that I upgraded to Vista and have been nothing but unhappy with that choice. I then installed Ubuntu 8.04 on that same PC and was very impressed with the features, especially given that fact that it was FREE!!!

However ...

Since then I have been using Seven on that same tablet, and am even more impressed that (1) all of the XP drivers work in compatibility mode, (2) all of the Vista apps work without changes, (3) am back to using Office 2007, especially OneNote and Journal, for which there are only rough equivalents in the Linux world.

So, in my case, I'm planning on switching back to MS Windows on the tablet PC when Seven comes out commercially. Have read nothing in the planned features for Ubuntu 9.10 that will change that.

Also ...

On my main desktop PC, I'm also using Seven and Ubuntu 9.04. I'll certainly upgrade that to 9.10, but unless it comes with some major new features, I'll probably still continue using Seven primarily.

Folks comfortable with MS Windows will most probably upgrade to Seven; those familiar with Ubuntu, to 9.10 -- and I really doubt many folks will switch sides. So, I guess this my long way of saying that I don't think either release is going to measurably affect the other.

 

[swarfega]

Tbh I dont think itl dent Windows that much. You have two camps, those who love linux, and those who love windows and also need compatibility for games and other software. Sure there will be some people wishing to try a new OS (I might be one of them).

 

[masterB]

Folks comfortable with MS Windows will most probably upgrade to Seven; those familiar with Ubuntu, to 9.10 -- and I really doubt many folks will switch sides. So, I guess this my long way of saying that I don't think either release is going to measurably affect the other.

I don't think they will switch but I see more and more people dual booting W7 and Ubuntu. I saw laptops with Ubuntu for sale in BestBuy store and people starting to like it a lot.

 

[wwoods]

Ubuntu 9.10 and Windows 7 are going to be released about the same time; how does everyone think each release will affect the other?

When and IF (and thats a HUGE IF) any linsux distro works out of the box without me tweeking config files, AND runs all the software and hardware I have connected to my system, I will consider putting it on my $2400 laptop, untill then....not a chance of useing any linsux distro. If I want a UNIX system, I have plenty real ones at work.

Why would I put a VW engine in my Lamborghini of a laptop ?

 

[bigcitycat]

Ubuntu sucks. I really don't want to go out and buy a new printer so I'll stick with what actually works.

 

[masterB]

When and IF (and thats a HUGE IF) any linsux distro works out of the box without me tweeking config files, AND runs all the software and hardware I have connected to my system, I will consider putting it on my $2400 laptop, untill then....not a chance of useing any linsux distro. If I want a UNIX system, I have plenty real ones at work.

Why would I put a VW engine in my Lamborghini of a laptop ?

Installing a new OS is fun for me. Maybe you don't like to have fun.

I can buy right now about 4 nice laptops with that money and have 4 different OS on them.

Ubuntu does have a lot of programs and drivers included in installation.
I spend more time installing and config. Windows then Ubuntu.

 

[wwoods]

Installing a new OS is fun for me. Maybe you don't like to have fun.

I can buy right now about 4 nice laptops with that money and have 4 different OS on them.

Ubuntu does have a lot of programs and drivers included in installation.
I spend more time installing and config. Windows then Ubuntu.

Yes I like to have fun...but thats not what I consider fun. And yes, you could buy about 4 nice laptop for what I paid, but I gaurentee they wouldent come near this ones performance....and I dident want a nice laptop, I wanted a GREAT laptop, and was willing to pay a premium for it.

 

[pparks1]

When and IF (and thats a HUGE IF) any linsux distro works out of the box without me tweeking config files, AND runs all the software and hardware I have connected to my system, I will consider putting it on my $2400 laptop, untill then....not a chance of useing any linsux distro. If I want a UNIX system, I have plenty real ones at work.

Why would I put a VW engine in my Lamborghini of a laptop ?

I think you are being a bit on the dramatic front. I've had a few Dell laptops, including my current E6400 machine that work right out of the box with Ubuntu 8.10 and 9.04. Sound, wireless, network card, DVD Burner, webcam, etc. I notice that you mention "hardware connected to your system"...so you might have something that won't work (maybe a lexmark printer, etc).

Lots of problems with Linux come down to driver support and manufacturers who don't provide any information for getting their equipment to work. Personally, I just avoid these vendors and I have fewer problems.

I'm sorry to see that you feel that linux sucks (i can only imagine that is what you meant when you said linsux distro). It certainly isn't for everybody. However, for those who need/want/desire an alternative to Windows or OSX, it's a very capable, highly secure, robust system that can often run for years when properly setup without much of a concern.

And as far as the comment about Linux being a VW engine....I've personally seen quite a number of instances where Linux can run circles around Microsoft OS's on the same level of hardware. Again, I'm not trying to be a Windows basher...that's not my goal here....but in the proper environment with a competent/trained user...Linux can really shine.

 

[masterB]

Yes I like to have fun...but thats not what I consider fun. And yes, you could buy about 4 nice laptop for what I paid, but I gaurentee they wouldent come near this ones performance....and I dident want a nice laptop, I wanted a GREAT laptop, and was willing to pay a premium for it.

It's not worth it. I did this once in 2001 and I bought a $2200 laptop and now it's a brick.

 

[wwoods]

I think you are being a bit on the dramatic front. I've had a few Dell laptops, including my current E6400 machine that work right out of the box with Ubuntu 8.10 and 9.04. Sound, wireless, network card, DVD Burner, webcam, etc. I notice that you mention "hardware connected to your system"...so you might have something that won't work (maybe a lexmark printer, etc).

Lots of problems with Linux come down to driver support and manufacturers who don't provide any information for getting their equipment to work. Personally, I just avoid these vendors and I have fewer problems.

I'm sorry to see that you feel that linux sucks (i can only imagine that is what you meant when you said linsux distro). It certainly isn't for everybody. However, for those who need/want/desire an alternative to Windows or OSX, it's a very capable, highly secure, robust system that can often run for years when properly setup without much of a concern.

Nope, not being dramatic at all, even if I if I diconnect my external hardware (BTW I dont have a lexmark printer, I have a HP Laserjet) Linsux will not, out of the box, run every itrem on my laptop, I have tried, I have had several others try, It dont work.

On top of that, most of the software I use there is no GOOD linux alternative. As to your avoiding specific vendors...I will not buy hardware to support a specific OS, I buy hardware/software that does what I want.

Windows 7 RC supports every item on this laptop, and all the external hardware I have, right out of the box.

As for your contention its the hardware manufactures fault they are not releasing specs, why should they ? What benefit would that get them. Last I remember NVIDIA released a binary driver for their cards, yet the Linsux communtiy complained its binary, not source....shesh.

No, I will not use Linsux untill out of the box it supports what I use on MY systems, which at present, it doesnt. Its not that I am not capable of configureing a linsux system, I have a RHCE, several systems here at work I admin on are RHEL 5..thats not the issue.

The issue is that if I am going to use linsux on my laptop, it must be a 100% replacement for windows, all my software must have 100% replacements and all my hardware must perform at 100%, or it is not a viable replacement. And yes I realise that is a un-compromising attitude, but its my $$, why should I compromise ?

 

[wwoods]

It's not worth it. I did this once in 2001 and I bought a $2200 laptop and now it's a brick.

It was well worth it to me, it all depends on the value you put on things, honestly, dropping 2k on a high end laptop every 2 years for me is ok.

 

[pparks1]

Ubuntu sucks. I really don't want to go out and buy a new printer so I'll stick with what actually works.

So, let's see if I understand. You have a printer which is provided by a manufacturer who doesn't provide any driver support for their hardware device in Linux and because of this, Linux sucks???????

I can see being frustrated and disappointed if this were to happen...but the fact remains that the printer works under Windows because the mfg provided a driver and information to Microsoft to make sure it worked and they didn't do the same for Linux. Avoid that manufacturer in the future would be my recommendations.

 

[wwoods]

So, let's see if I understand. You have a printer which is provided by a manufacturer who doesn't provide any driver support for their hardware device in Linux and because of this, Linux sucks???????

I can see being frustrated and disappointed if this were to happen...but the fact remains that the printer works under Windows because the mfg provided a driver and information to Microsoft to make sure it worked and they didn't do the same for Linux. Avoid that manufacturer in the future would be my recommendations.

No, you dont understand...the issues are much more than a printer, that was just a simple example.....there are several things on my laptop that dont work under linsux. If you read my post, you would see I said all the external hardware asside, there are several things on my laptop that do not function, as well as software I use where replacements are not avaliable under linsux. Untill every function on my laptop functions underlinsux, I have no reason or desire to use it. NOTE I am at this time just speaking of the laptop, not external hardware

 

[masterB]

Hey wwoods just wait for Ubuntu 9.10 and you will see that your hardware will be ok.
I am using 9.04 right now and my HP printer works wireless right out of the box.

 

[pparks1]

On top of that, most of the software I use there is no GOOD linux alternative.

Well, that is a very viable argument. If you have very specific software requirements, then Linux might not be a good solution. It certainly doesn't mean that Linux sucks...it just means that it doesn't meet your needs.

As to your avoiding specific vendors...I will not buy hardware to support a specific OS, I buy hardware/software that does what I want.

Ok, but take video cards for example. If performance from an ATI card and an Nvidia card is even, I will pick the Nvidia card every single time because it has been better for Linux support for a longer period of time in my experience.

Windows 7 RC supports every item on this laptop, and all the external hardware I have, right out of the box.

As does Windows 7 on my machine...of course 99.9% of hardware is made for Windows...so this isn't exactly a shocking discovery.

As for your contention its the hardware manufactures fault they are not releasing specs, why should they ? What benefit would that get them. Last I remember NVIDIA released a binary driver for their cards, yet the Linsux communtiy complained its binary, not source....shesh.

What does it get them...customers who buy their stuff. Sure, the open source community is not happy that the Nvidia driver is closed source....their general philosophy is open source so you can expand upon the code...but there are plenty of Linux users out there who go ahead and use that closed driver and get their 3d support. Many people like me who don't buy ATI video cards anymore because they have had poor linux support in their past.

No, I will not use Linsux untill out of the box it supports what I use on MY systems, which at present, it doesnt. Its not that I am not capable of configureing a linsux system, I have a RHCE, several systems here at work I admin on are RHEL 5..thats not the issue.

It's hard to believe that a certified Red Hat admin wouldn't at least be understanding of some of the problems that exist for using that platform on the desktop. I too am an RHCE and an MCSE....I see pros and cons for both operating systems. Both have their place and both fill needs in my home. On my gaming box, because I need to play Windows games, I use Windows. But I certainly don't turn around and say "Linux sucks" because game makers are coding for DX9/10.

The issue is that if I am going to use linsux on my laptop, it must be a 100% replacement for windows, all my software must have 100% replacements and all my hardware must perform at 100%, or it is not a viable replacement. And yes I realise that is a un-compromising attitude, but its my $$, why should I compromise ?

Nobody said you have to compromise, but it doesn't mean that Linux sucks. It just means it doesn't fit the bill for you.

Consider somebody who has 3 computers at home and doesn't have specific software needs and instead has basic computing needs (internet, email, pictures, music, and occasional documents/spreadsheets). The cost of licensing 3 windows computers, and maintaining them (reg cleans, virus scanners, defrag), could be a deterrent to them using Windows. In this case, Linux might come out ahead. It's all in the circumstances.

 

[pparks1]

No, you dont understand...the issues are much more than a printer, that was just a simple example.....there are several things on my laptop that dont work under linsux. If you read my post, you would see I said all the external hardware asside, there are several things on my laptop that do not function, as well as software I use where replacements are not avaliable under linsux. Untill every function on my laptop functions underlinsux, I have no reason or desire to use it. NOTE I am at this time just speaking of the laptop, not external hardware

sorry wwoods. I wasn't referring to something that you said, the printer example came from a comment made by bigcitycat. Please see the post that I quoted before my response. That response was not aimed at you.

 

[Klaw117]

I dual boot Windows 7 and Ubuntu 9.04 and personally, I don't think I need Ubuntu anymore. Windows 7 can do everything I need already. Also, many of my applications to not run on Ubuntu. If Wine supported all my apps and things were a little easier to install (I usually have to look up how to install a lot of stuff), then maybe I would think about using Ubuntu. Ubuntu is actually a very efficient system. It takes up much less room and works a little faster than Windows.