USB/ethernet turns off after several hours with Intel DH77DF

[laerm]

Hi all --

My first post on this forum* so hopefully I give enough info to help solve my problem.

I just upgraded my HTPC and so built my first Windows 7 PC (never had a need to upgrade from XP, believe it or not). So far I am quite impressed but I am having a number of issues with power management. I'd love some help tying all these together so I'll start at the beginning.

I've had the machine running for two weeks now. It's an Intel DH77DF mobo, all the newest drivers on it, fresh from Intel's site. At first I noticed the keyboard would become unresponsive after a while -- not even the lights for caps/num lock would turn on (MS Wired Keyboard 600). So I figured it was shutting off the USB ports and so I went into Device Manager and hit the properties for all USB ports and unchecked allowing Windows to shut them off to save power. I then went to power management and turned it on to maximum performance.

Next morning, I wake up and go to hit the PC to put on some music and the keyboard is unresponsive again. (Aside: I have two keyboards connected, the MS one mentioned earlier and a Logitech diNovo Mini for HTPC stuff. There's also an old MS wired mouse attached (which has never lost power, oddly enough).) I restart to bring the keyboard back around -- because unplugging it and putting it in any USB port won't bring it back -- and when I restart, it takes FOREVER. I'm talking 15-20 minutes (when boot after POST takes like 30 seconds). The restart eventually craps out to a BSOD: power driver state failure, error code 0x9F.

So I researched that error and most of the advice seems to come to "run sfc \scannow" (done, more than once, no issues) and "update your drivers" (already done). I looked in the event viewer for evidence of that crash but don't think I found anything.

I found a page on a registry entry you can make for disabling selective suspend in USB completely, and I've done that, and it says it's disabled under the advanced settings in power management, but, I dunno...my peripherals still die.

As a final clue, I noticed something during this morning's restart. I had my work laptop on and it's a Mac, and Finder always shows the devices on the network. During the long shutdown that goes to bluescreen, the HTPC is not on the network before restart, comes on to to the network five minutes or so into the long shutdown, hangs out on the network for a few minutes, disappears, and then BSOD about a minute after that. It's not just USB shutting down, I guess (if I had a SATA device I'd test that too).

OK, sorry about the long post and all the parentheticals, just wanted to make sure I gave as much pertinent info as possible. I'd be very grateful if someone had any clues. If this is in the wrong forum and should be under the BSOD forum, let me know and I will close this and repost.

Thanks very much for reading --
Micah


* I posted this same thread to the drivers forum last week but received no responses. I am deleting that one and starting over here.

 

[ELiTEFX]

Best advice: Boot into the Intel DH77DF Bios. Load "Optimized Defaults". Search through the Bios (or the motherboard manual for USB related options) Enable the USB bios options you require. Save. Exit. Done......

 

[laerm]

Hm, well, this BIOS doesn't have "optimized defaults", just defaults. And anything in the BIOS USB-related is enabled (which is pretty much just USB boot and BIOS USB support).

Thanks, but that's not it. Any other ideas?

Micah

 

[bobafetthotmail]

yeah if you haven't already, looking at the BIOS settings is the best bet after you tried with OS settings. Intel seems to have a handy guide called bios glossary which can help you understand what each entry in the BIOS is in case you want to play with it.

I'll brainstorm ideas by looking at that and from my experience, because without the thing in my hands I can do only that. Hope I'm helping.

The more likely one it's that your USB stuff requires the "Backward Compatibility Mode" or "legacy USB support" in the BIOS because some peripheral is old or crappy.
As for the restarting issues maybe the machine is trying to boot from your usb stuff since it thinks it is a drive (and booting from a keyboard ain't gonna work) so check that as well, maybe the option that allows USB charging of other devices is active (it's something that allows you to charge stuff through USB while your PC is shut down, a "feature" that has caused issues to guys I know in the past).
There could be an option called "USB Optimization" that says "USB devices will be unavailable until after the operating system boots, but BIOS will boot faster", try playing with it as it may not be doing its job, there could be some options to disable some specific device/ports during boot which could be useful to keep a crappy peripheral off the BIOS's hands until the OS takes over.

As a final clue, I noticed something during this morning's restart. I had my work laptop on and it's a Mac, and Finder always shows the devices on the network.

it shows what? a mouse and a couple keyboards on the network? :shock:
A screenshot of that (even if it's mac) would be cool. posting screenshots

Anyway, this makes me suggest to have a look at the BIOS's settings about lan and boot-from-lan and whatever else has to do with network.

If all fails you can also check if the BIOS is up to date. But I'm always wary of flashing BIOS.

 

[ELiTEFX]

This is a looong shot. Are you 100% sure that you connected any available internal USB cable(s) to the internal mobo USB ports and not the IEEE 1394 ports instead? Just a thought as this can severely damage the mobo.

Other than that, as long as the keyboard is not a brick everything should be working since the bios USB are enabled. It's a mystery....

And hopefully we're not using a PS2/USB adaptor on the keyboard to connect it. Those things never work properly from my experience.....

 

[laerm]

Hi guys --

Thanks for the feedback. I got on chat with Intel support yesterday and they had me check a bunch of stuff (including reset BIOS to defaults) and they said that my PSU isn't powerful enough. They said I need at least 400w, better 460w, which sounds pretty bogus to me. I have no optical drive, just an mSATA drive, and just the CPU fan. I used the PSU calculator at extreme and it said I was cool with 140w. My current PSU is 250w, so I thought that should be fine.

They also said plug in peripherals to USB 3 and try those ports. Well that sorta helped -- I made it at least 10 hours before the peripherals lost power. So I don't know what to try now. What do you guys think about the PSU issue?


BobaFett --

Yeah, Intel's support on that front is better than I expected. I don't think it's an old peripheral issue. The oldest peripheral plugged in is a MS/alienware wired mouse that's gotta be about ten years old. Strangely enough, that's the only peripheral that's never crapped out. There's a Logitech BT kybd from '07, and then two from the past year.

The "boot from USB" option wasn't checked off in the BIOS until EliteFX told me to load defaults. I installed W7 from USB but I turned USB boot off in BIOS when I was done with that.

That USB optimization feature you describe is in there, but I didn't want to turn it on because if I need to tweak the BIOS again I need to use a USB kybd to get in there...and I'd have just turned that off.

No, the sidebar on the finder shows other machines on your network. Like this:

"mu" there is my NAS, the HTPC isn't visible now cuz I have it turned off.

BIOS is newest. I too am wary of that but I figured this mobo is less than a month old, worse comes to worst and the flash goes bad I RMA it.


EliteFX --

Yeah, all that's cool, don't worry.


Thanks guys --
Micah

 

[bobafetthotmail]

140w? how the? ah yeah you have no graphic card. ok, ok, nevermind.

What about posting the brand and model of the PSU? PSU from some manufacturers are total rubbish right off the box. Voltage and amperage fluctuate during operation and could cause this kinds of things, and can kill mobos as well.

I even had a dvd player (the ones you connect to TVs to record stuff not the computer peripherals) that had a defective PSU and its only "peripheral" (a computer-grade dvd burner) did suffer from shutdowns and random mysterious malfunctions, so it may sound like a good way to check.

The oldest peripheral plugged in is a MS/alienware wired mouse that's gotta be about ten years old. Strangely enough, that's the only peripheral that's never crapped out. There's a Logitech BT kybd from '07, and then two from the past year.

it may be one crappy keyboard, but 2? can you try with another keyboard for a while?

And what about "hiding" the one you like less behind a usb port? ("hidden" from the bios, of course, you still use it as normal)

I too am wary of that but I figured this mobo is less than a month old, worse comes to worst and the flash goes bad I RMA it.

The RMA option is very tempting though.

 

[laerm]

What about posting the brand and model of the PSU? PSU from some manufacturers are total rubbish right off the box. Voltage and amperage fluctuate during operation and could cause this kinds of things, and can kill mobos as well.

Yeah, I know next to nothing about PSUs. Never have. The only requirement I've ever shopped for one on is how quiet and cool it is (as I've only been building HTPCs for years now). It is an Allied AL-8250SFX. I bought it based on this review.

If you think it's lousy ("Allied" certainly sounds like a generic name), then I'd love a recommendation for a small-ish, quiet, cool PSU. My case is the Apex MI-100. There's not a lot of clearance between the bottom of the PSU and top of the CPU fan, so anything larger than this PSU is not going to work as this was a tight fit already.

I even had a dvd player (the ones you connect to TVs to record stuff not the computer peripherals) that had a defective PSU and its only "peripheral" (a computer-grade dvd burner) did suffer from shutdowns and random mysterious malfunctions, so it may sound like a good way to check.

Wow, that's pretty ridiculous.

it may be one crappy keyboard, but 2? can you try with another keyboard for a while?

And what about "hiding" the one you like less behind a usb port? ("hidden" from the bios, of course, you still use it as normal)

I have two connected because one is a mini-size with a built-in trackpad for HTPC use and the other is a full size I hide away until I need to use it.

Good thinking on hiding one from the BIOS, though. I'll give that a shot.

The RMA option is very tempting though.

I think right now I'll try a new PSU and see how that goes.

As a minor update, the Intel support dude told me to put some peripherals on the USB 3 ports. After a day, those have not lost juice at all. In fact, the only thing that's died is the Traktor Audio 6 on USB 2. So does USB 3 do something different with power? I'd put the Traktor box on USB 3 and keep one of the kybds unplugged and everything would be great except according to many users on the Native Instruments forums this device hates USB 3.

Thanks again for your help, Boba! I'll update this thread after I've had a few days with a new PSU (again, recommendations appreciated).

Micah

 

[bobafetthotmail]

sadly I'm not an expert in PSUs, I have some experience with far bigger PSUs (those for gaming rigs) but that's it.

Being this a forum though, the info is out there for others to comment too.

There's not a lot of clearance between the bottom of the PSU and top of the CPU fan, so anything larger than this PSU is not going to work as this was a tight fit already.

hmmm, this means relatively bad air circulation unless the PSU is sucking up the air from the CPU. Make sure that temps in all your hardware is stable and relatively low. Although if you followed that guide you linked it's safe to assume that it's not an issue.

Good thinking on hiding one from the BIOS, though. I'll give that a shot.

Just a (probably needless) clarification, the keyboard "hidden" from the BIOS is seen only by Windows 7, so if you want to alter bios settings you need to use the other.

I'd personally hide the "mini-size with a built-in trackpad for HTPC use", because it sounds the most complex (while the full-size keyboard is much simpler), also, if you have a powered Hub (a Hub with its own power supply) you can make sure that the device isn't taking its power from the USB (=from the PSU).

although now that you told me about the Traktor, it's the one I'd look at first. sneaking suspicions....

So does USB 3 do something different with power?

USB 3.0 is supposed to deliver a twice the power of USB 2.0. And even then, not all USB are equal.

The USB 2.0's power should theoretically be 500 mA per integrated port, and 500 mA per USB header (a header is a bunch of pins on the mobo that allow you to connect cables to run usb ports integrated in the case). It's the same for USB 3.0 (they just have 900 mA of output).
Looking at the Intel page about your mobo I see "four back panel ports, four ports via internal headers and two ports via Mini PCI Express* connector". so you have 4 ports with full powaaa!, 4 ports you must check to see how much headers per port (usually is one header per 2 ports, so its a half powaaa! port) and a couple ports on a friggin mini-pci express connector that I have no idea how power can give.

Most high-juice devices like USB HDDs say (or said in the past) "please attach this to the back usb ports". that's to ensure that the device gets the full powaaa! it needs.

Rearrange your devices to take advantage of this "detail" and see if there are still issues.

Then again by looking at the manual they say there are 2 yellow "High current USB" on the back, 2 normal usb on the back and other weirdness. *facepalm* what the heck is that....

Something like that would prompt me to use my multimeter and find out what is the actual output on each port.

Look what ports are "high current" according to the manual and keep in mind the things about headers I said when you rearrange your devices.

The Traktor needs the best 2.0 ports you have, the integrated one from the back they colored of yellow (the "high current" ones).
Keyboards and mice usually don't need a whole lot of power, but you said you have a gaming one and a keyboard with touchpad, so those two must be on different headers at the very least.

In fact, the only thing that's died is the Traktor Audio 6 on USB 2. I'd put the Traktor box on USB 3 and keep one of the kybds unplugged and everything would be great except according to many users on the Native Instruments forums this device hates USB 3.

Wait a sec. Just googled it and yeah, sounds relatively power-hungry. What other devices you have other than the 2 keyboards, the mouse and this thing? Because it may very well that you did connect your stuff in a way that saturated the USB power output (see above), and this means something got the shaft (was left unpowered).

Their product page seems to say that it should accept a separate power supply "Additional Power Supply (9 V, 1200 mA) will be available separately for using Direct Thru mode." (you can use generic power supply if they have the right connector in their inventory and can be set at the right V and produces the required mA or more), otherwise you can plug it to a powered USB hub.

 

[laerm]

Thanks for all that, Boba. I've got a new plan. I bought an adapter for the Traktor as the computer -- for the first time -- did not freeze any peripherals last night with the Traktor plugged into USB 3. Apparently it was the power suck all along and with it on a high-power port it works fine. I'll take the load off the PSU by using the adapter.

As for the PSU, I haven't bought a new one yet so we shall see how this goes. (Don't worry, my temps are all well within happy zone according to Intel. I may underclock, though, to see if I can cool things a little more as they do seem high to me.) And yes, I hid that other kybd from BIOS so that might be helping as well.

Thanks again very much for the info -- I think, at this point, we've got it all pretty well covered. I am considering this issue now at least 66% solved. I have a little voice telling me to watch out that my ethernet is doing the same thing, but I honestly think that's my router which is old and wimpy.

I'll be back if I have further issues, but, again, thanks. Have a great weekend! I'll lift my glass to you tonight.

Micah