What's the next generation install media?

[ciphernemo]

...or even yesser.

Holy haberdashery, Batman! That thing has 50 µs latency! That's 0.049ms latency! I bet that pile of SLC chips on that controller card with its own processing unit is a pile of money.

EDIT: I just looked it up and found a RamSan 120 (not sure the difference from the 20 model). But that 120 is $20k. :shock: Bob, I'll bid on the car instead.

EDIT 2: Looks like the 20 is $18k. Still crippling pain: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/03/12/texas_memory_ssd/. That thing has its own CPU and four on-board RAID 5 controllers with an average of 80,000 IOPS (70-30 mix for read/write).

EDIT 3: (I try to avoid multiple posts sometimes) Even CCP uses it for their EVE Online servers: http://www.ramsan.com/success/ccpgames.htm. Antman, thanks for opening my eyes to the fastest piece of storage out there. Lol, now I have a max, mental reference point for 2009 storage performance. Those should peak 7.9 on WEI I'd hope, but people using those are running BSD/Linux/Windows servers.

EDIT 4: I retract my mental reference and replace it with something even faster and more insane: 600,000 IOPS at 15µs: http://www.ramsan.com/products/ramsan-440.htm

 

[Antman]

Holy haberdashery, Batman!

Who's Batman?

The only PC peripheral/component that can not be optimized - the keyboard. But then again, dip switches...

 

[ciphernemo]

Who's Batman?

I assume you're joking? If not...

"Batman" (1966) - Memorable quotes

The only PC peripheral/component that can not be optimized - the keyboard.

Think again.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/4956&cl=us,en

Also, Razor keyboards have a faster-than-normal transfer rate for its keys to play back macros at lightning speed. I assume the Logitech G15/G19 have the same, though that's unclaimed. My G15's macro play back blazing fast in a matter of milliseconds a huge paragraph can be entered.

 

[Antman]

I assume you're joking?

No, that would be the Joker.

Think again.

It is just a euphimism. At some point, the car will drive faster than the driver's skill to do so.

And pardon me for being too lazy to find a better reference than this (this example is a bit old fashioned), but this level of technology seems promising in the near term - much more so than SSD in my opinion. I can see a return of riser cards for fitting this into ATX based systems. Extending the battery life should not be much a challenge. I once worked for a sole proprietor billionaire in Colorado who owned a company (among many others) called RamSys - don't know what came of them. Early 90's.

Readers - do not go too wild on my "more so than SSD" statement. Look deeply before you leap.

 

[ciphernemo]

No, that would be the Joker.

Nice comeback.

At some point, the car will drive faster than the driver's skill to do so.

And pardon me for being too lazy to find a better reference than this (this example is a bit old fashioned), but this level of technology seems promising in the near term - much more so than SSD in my opinion.

Yes, I agree there will be some point when our technology will be faster than we can handle. We'll be the bottleneck. And in fact, that's probably already happened in many facets of computing.

Another contender for the DDR2 RAM disk solution (I especially like the RAID0/1 feature and back up to CF): ACARD Products - IDE/SCSI/SATA RAID Storage Solutions

But I think SSDs are making this sort of performance more affordable even if regular DDR2 modules are still faster. With SSDs growing in popularity and manufacturing of the MLC chips increasing every day, SSDs will outperform the DDR2 solutions eventually.

As for next generation media, I still have a strong feeling that it will not be flash, nor will it be optical discs. It will most likely be a new invention/technology to store data even cheaper, with less power, and easier still to produce.

 

[ciphernemo]

To revitalize this thread, Disney Japan is going to be releasing movies on flash cards (MicroSD). This is still a ways away from O/S distribution, but it's something interesting:

Disney Japan to sell movies in tiny memory cards | Technology | Internet | Reuters

 

[Dave76]

DVDs are becoming old technology. What is the next way we will buy windows at retail? Flash drive? ISO over the internet? Something to do with flash media? What do you think. It has to come pretty soon. The DVD drive is going the way of the floppy!

In the end it will be influenced by what the various buyers will pay for, request or demand. The supplier will do what is viable to maximize profits. That’s the disclaimer 1 done.
Some people plunge headlong into 'new' technology. Others go kicking and screaming, dragging their feet until they have no choice. The majority is somewhere in the middle. Disclaimer 2.

I understand why, but was surprised at how long the floppy disk was used. IMO DVD is in the later stages of its life.

My chosen method of getting Win7 RC was to download it from the MS site, put it on a USB memory stick, install it which took about 15 minutes. I also use a USB memory stick for music in my car, no more CDs for me.

Downloading would seem to me, to be the supplier’s first choice, as it is the lowest cost for them. In order to maximize sales they will also offer it via DVD and memory stick (this option mainly for netbooks), likely with appropriate costs added in.
The 'MS shop' site is now selling Win7 upgrade for the same price if you 'download' or 'ship it', but if you want to 'download' and get the 'backup disk' they are adding $14.95. Next step will be to download for the base price, ship it by either DVD or memory stick for an additional charge, the charge will depend on the media used.
To answer the original question, next after DVD is finished, Downloading and Memory stick. Physical media shipping will continue to decline, but will be used for several years, and will eventually die, kicking and screaming.

 

[ciphernemo]

Physical media shipping will continue to decline, but will be used for several years, and will eventually die, kicking and screaming.

I don't think anyone is going to miss optical discs enough to go out "kicking and screaming". That's a little over the top.

Currently, downloading is one of the major players in install media distribution (and the one I prefer). Unfortunately we're also talking O/S install media, which is only possible for those who have another PC or are downloading and burning it to a DVD or copying to a flash drive before upgrading. For me, I downloaded Windows 7 RC-1 and burned it to a DVD to install on a new PC.

For me, it's much quicker to burn an ISO to a DVD than it is to dedicate a USB thumbdrive of the 3 I have, make it bootable, and copy over the files in the awkward process that it is right now. If OS install media was distributed on flash drives, I would certainly find that more convenient than optical discs. But I don't have any hope for that since it takes a lot to change install media for the masses. Just look at how long floppies were around, let alone software still distributed today on regular CDs when we're at DVDs, Blu-Ray DVDs, and flash memory.

But for those buying a new PC and not already having a PC, or wanting to bother a friend to help them, they're looking at physical media to install their OS.

 

[Dave76]

Kicking and Screaming

I don't think anyone is going to miss optical discs enough to go out "kicking and screaming". That's a little over the top.

I was just referring to the longevity vs usefulness of the floppy disk drive, was meant as a joke

There are still people today that use floppies.
I found putting an OS on a thumb drive to be the same or easier than burning to a DVD. Image the thumb drive then move it to 'storage' and use the thumb drive for whatever you want, put it back if/when needed.

Downloading will be the method of choice, leaving the user to chose the install and storage media. You can (Edit: remove 'install' add 'download') an OS from the internet (Edit: 'and then install from'), other partition, external HD, thumb drive or DVD.

Agreed, not the majority but many people will want to keep using DVDs for years to come (thus the kicking and screaming joke) but they may have to burn it themselves or buy them from a third party company.
A netbook as an only computer will cause a problem but requesting an OS on a thumb drive for an extra $5-10 will likely be their answer.

 

[ciphernemo]

You can install an OS from the internet, other partition, external HD, thumb drive or DVD.

That's incorrect.

No motherboard BIOS I know of, laptop or desktop, will install an O/S on a drive via the Internet. A PC needs software to load network drivers, protocols, and DNS or IP configuration. With a brand new hard drive, there is no partition, and hence no way of installing an OS without booting to physical media.

Now if your system already has an operating system installed, that might be a different story.

 

[Tepid]

That's incorrect.

No motherboard BIOS I know of, laptop or desktop, will install an O/S on a drive via the Internet. A PC needs software to load network drivers, protocols, and DNS or IP configuration. With a brand new hard drive, there is no partition, and hence no way of installing an OS without booting to physical media.

Now if your system already has an operating system installed, that might be a different story.

Actually, it might be able to be done with an Intel V-Pro board.
You may not be ale to install of the net, but you could manage to setup a V-Pro system remotely from a networked device. I would have to research it more, but I think it could be done. with a bit of finagling. Of course I could be wrong. However, there is a DOS downloader (don't ask me more than that about it) that might be able to be used.

There is now a Core2 V-Pro Tech Processor, so, I wouldn't say it can't be done.

 

[Dave76]

That's incorrect..

Your Correct.

I meant to say download from the internet then install from other partition, external, thumb drive, DVD.

 

[ciphernemo]

Your Correct.

I meant to say download from the internet then install from other partition, external, thumb drive, DVD.

Ah, I see what you mean.

 

[ciphernemo]

Actually, it might be able to be done with an Intel V-Pro board.
You may not be ale to install of the net, but you could manage to setup a V-Pro system remotely from a networked device.

That's the catch: off a network that is configured to push out images/installs/etc. It's a business tool, but it can be done with any network card that can boot from a network, not just this V-Pro product.

Intel® vPro™ Technology for Notebook and Desktop PCs

In short, it can't grab an O/S over the Internet and it's not for consumers (which is the focus of this thread).