Windows 7 and Internet Use

[dblack]

Reply to dg1261 #39
First of all thanks for responding then apologies for not paying enough attention when making my own post.
The actual update on my HPZ240 is KB4539601 not 602. That might not matter as I think they are much the same. The mention I made later re KB4539502 was a typo, it should have ended 602. However you have allayed my concerns and I need not uninstall anything.

During my (amateurish) research into all this a long time back I remember looking at something called Marie's be aware of KB-list or some such thing where all the W7 Telemetry updates were listed with an explanation of each. I just saved the numbers in a simple text file then uninstalled any that were present on my on computers. Someone there created a script program that contained them all making it easier for those who wished to use it. Someone else did point out later that all this may prove futile as Microsoft would simply reinstate them all again with their next round of updates. That is why I blocked all updates from Microsoft back then and that is still the same today.

Yes I was aware of the Simplix pack thing as it was also mentioned where I was looking and I have since looked at in MajorGeeks but the idea of first allowing Microsoft complete freedom to install anything they wished on my Win.7 computers would be an unacceptable route for me to go down.

 

[dblack]

As new posts on this topic seem to have ended I would like to thank everyone who has responded and provided so much information.

I have concluded that it is as safe to continue using Win.7 on the internet as it would be using any other Windows OS. I'm also heartened that there has not been a single incident reported that would contradict that view. I hope others will continue using Win.7 for all internet purposes where possible.

 

[sluggerb]

I use Win7 as my daily driver. Including daily internet use. Never had an issue.

If you have Windows Firewall turned on, and your PC is behind any consumer grade router without any port forwarding turned on, you are safe from 95% of attacks on the internet, even running no anti virus.

If you run MSE, that will get you up to 96%

If you never click a link in an email, ever, that will get you 98%

If you make a standard non administrator account and only log into that when using the PC, you are at 99.9%

Also Win7 benefits from security through obscurity. Viruses and malware attacks are going to target the dominant OS in the wild, which is Windows 10/11. A lot of the exploits and 0-days being released won't even work on Windows 7 because they target Windows 10/11 specific OS files/configurations that Win7 doesn't have.

 

[michael diemer]

I use Win7 as my daily driver. Including daily internet use. Never had an issue.

If you have Windows Firewall turned on, and your PC is behind any consumer grade router without any port forwarding turned on, you are safe from 95% of attacks on the internet, even running no anti virus.

If you run MSE, that will get you up to 96%

If you never click a link in an email, ever, that will get you 98%

If you make a standard non administrator account and only log into that when using the PC, you are at 99.9%

Also Win7 benefits from security through obscurity. Viruses and malware attacks are going to target the dominant OS in the wild, which is Windows 10/11. A lot of the exploits and 0-days being released won't even work on Windows 7 because they target Windows 10/11 specific OS files/configurations that Win7 doesn't have.

Great post there. I have also wondered about the "obscurity factor." you could argue that it applies to Vista, XP also. They are even more obscure.

Your other suggestions are also very helpful.

 

[sluggerb]

Great post there. I have also wondered about the "obscurity factor." you could argue that it applies to Vista, XP also. They are even more obscure.

Yep.

People really get worked up about virus and malware attacks on PC's without knowing how most of them work. For a drive by attack to happen, the attacker needs to get to your machine from the internet. If you are behind a router and don't have port forwarding enabled, they can't get to anything behind that router. That what a router does, it directs incoming traffic to a particular PC and if you don't tell it where to go it doesn't send it anywhere.

You know what the #1 attack vector for viruses is? Email attachments. People getting a spoofed email from someone in their contact list and telling them to look at this cute puppy dog video and they click on "CutePuppyDogs.exe" and click "Ignore" and "Yes" 10 times while their email client, AV, and OS all desperately tell them not to run the program, and it installs a backdoor on the PC. Any PC on earth will be compromised by that user behavior, regardless of OS or AV being used.

 

[xx_Dark_Skullz_xx]

I don't know what a PHD is, other than an academic title. I must admit that doing banking on Windows 7 would make me very nervous. You would be better off switching to Linux. It is not nearly as hard as its reputation. There are several Linux systems (or distros) that are user friendly enough that they have a very easy learning curve. Anyone can start using Mint, Zorin or Elementary immediately. Many other as well. And all free.

I'm assuming these are personal machines, and not business. If the latter, even more reason not to use Windows 7. If you are hesitant because you use Word or Excel, you can still use them, through the Wine program, which allows you to install some Windows apps. I have in our household Microsoft Office working on Linux. Also, there are Linux equivalents which most find perfectly usable.

As I said, internet banking is the one activity I would not do, or let anyone in my household do, on Windows 7. I would either start using Linux or bite the bullet and upgrade to 10/11.

I'm with you on not doing any sort of online banking on 7. That's the one thing I'm NOT doing on my personal machine (that's what I have my other laptop for, which runs Chrome OS for now, though I do plan to wipe it and do a fresh install of Linux Mint onto it).

On a related note, you should probably be careful when using an ATM machine, as many of those are still running Windows XP (which has been out of support even longer than 7 has).

 

[Alejandro85]

On a related note, you should probably be careful when using an ATM machine, as many of those are still running Windows XP (which has been out of support even longer than 7 has).

That means that such banks deemed it safe enough for what it has to do.
Consider that a ATM is not exposed to the same risks as your everyday computer, and banks may be more interested in paying for extra bugfixes rather than change the OS entirely.

And, on the negative side, we have no real way of knowing the OS of an ATM, so we need to trust the bank on this.

 

[Dimitris B]

At some point it will become pointless to use W-7 as anything but an offline system to run special software. Like where Vista is now. Almost nobody running that anymore.

That's incorrect. Even XP has barely reached that. Vista is nearly as usable as Windows 7, only the browser situation is a bit eh, you can use r3dfox.

 

[Dimitris B]

MSE is both anti-malware and anti-virus. It is a complete AV program, and it uses the same definitions as Windows Defender on W10/11. So it is good choice for those of us still using W7. however, nobody knows how long it will continue working on W7, or receive the same updates as WD.

The version of Defender on W7 is not a true antivirus, it only stops malware. Confusing, as it has the same name as WD on W10/11.

Malwarebytes is the best for W7, I'd use that if I HAD to use an antivirus. But it's not really needed.

 

[michael diemer]

An update on my situation: The one thing that could get me to upgrade to W10 finally hapened awhile back. Some of my music software stopped working correctly. I could not even open the online installation app for Vienna Instruments, as it would automatically check for updates, and in so doing discover I was on an unsupported system.

It's inevitable. Software developers will stop supporting old versions of Windows. They can't afford to pay people for the few users who still are on such systems. Fortunately, I discovered that Windows 10 can be made to look and act almost identically to W7. So now I have no worries. Until, of course, they stop supporting W10. My limited experience with W11 was enough to know I want no part of it. I used to say Windows 7 was the last good system MS made. I can now honestly say it's Windows 10.

 

[Dimitris B]

An update on my situation: The one thing that could get me to upgrade to W10 finally hapened awhile back. Some of my music software stopped working correctly. I could not even open the online installation app for Vienna Instruments, as it would automatically check for updates, and in so doing discover I was on an unsupported system.

It's inevitable. Software developers will stop supporting old versions of Windows. They can't afford to pay people for the few users who still are on such systems. Fortunately, I discovered that Windows 10 can be made to look and act almost identically to W7. So now I have no worries. Until, of course, they stop supporting W10. My limited experience with W11 was enough to know I want no part of it. I used to say Windows 7 was the last good system MS made. I can now honestly say it's Windows 10.

You only used Win7 for looks?

 

[michael diemer]

You only used Win7 for looks?

While looks are important, I used W7 because it worked, at least until I started having software problems. I made W10 look and work like W7 simply for continuity, familiarity.

Vista was IMO the best looking system of all time. W7 built on it. W10 is close enough, and the only question for me is how soon do software developers start to abandon it. I'll probably keep using it as long as I can. After that, who knows? Linux may finally be ready for the big time.

 

[Dimitris B]

While looks are important, I used W7 because it worked, at least until I started having software problems. I made W10 look and work like W7 simply for coninuity, familiarity.

Vista was IMO the best looking system of all time. W7 built on it. W10 is close enough, and the only question for me is how soon do software developers start to abandon it. I'll probably keep using it as long as I can. After that, who knows? Linux may finally be ready for the big time.

Well, I'm glad I have no software problems yet. The only new program i need is the browser and of course, there are still many options for Win7.