Windows 7 End of Support

[Fantail]

I am trying to get used to LibreOffice. So far it's been decent, not without it's learning curve. Base does not seem to play well with older mdb files.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I am trying to get used to LibreOffice. So far it's been decent, not without it's learning curve. Base does not seem to play well with older mdb files.

Yeah, there definitely is a learning curve, especially if one has to relearn how to do things after being used to a different program. Also, LibreOffice depends far more heavily on Styles than MS Office ever did, especially in Writer, something I have yet to fully wrap my mind around. Still, I find Writer easier to use than Word most of the time once I got used to it. I don't miss MS Office one bit.

I've used Calc on occasion but I didn't have to do much relearning since I didn't use Excel much.

I haven't had any need to use Draw yet and I've never used Impress, Math Formula (me?, do math?) or Base programs I never needed.

I ran into the same learning curve when i ditched Adobe Acrobat Standard for Qoppa's PDF Studio Pro but, once I got used to it, I like it considerably better than Acrobat and can do everything I used to use Acrobat for only easier, especially when using multiple screens.

 

[lehnerus2000]

W7 Virtual Machine

I've been watching a few Youtube videos about Linux Mint which seems an attractive way to go rather than move to W10.

The video I was watching said Linux does not need anti-virus. Is this true?

The one thing that concerns me is that I use MS Office 2007 and have many documents and spreadsheets. I have the original CD with the key number but I cannot use it again as I seem to recall it allows two installs only and I have an offline laptop with the second install.

If I upgraded my 'online' laptop to use Linux, would I be able to copy the programme files of MSOffice and install under the Linux OS?

You could make a Backup Image of your W7 install using Macrium Reflect, and then you could convert that to a VHD.
Once you have done that you could run W7 as a VM on Linux Mint using a VM Manager (like VMware Player).
I run W10 like this.

There is something that people need to do when using an OS that is no longer supported.

They need to learn how to create regular Backup Images.

Tutorials
Backup Complete Computer - Create an Image Backup
Imaging with free Macrium

...

Another option is to convert an existing W7 install to a VM.
Macrium Reflect Images can be converted to VMs.

VMs can be easily copied to external storage.
Obviously people should only run copies of their VM.

VMs can be easily isolated from networks, so they should be protected from malware and rogue updates.

I run various VMs in VMware Player on a Linux Mint 18 Host, including:

• W10 Pro (1703) VM
• XP VM with old Windows games
• W7 VM with software development tools (Visual Studio, Android Studio, Netbeans, etc.)

I can also run most of my VMs in VMware Workstation 9 on W7 (including a LM18 VM).
VMware Workstation 9 won't run W10 VMs though.

 

[Brds7t7]

I also switched to LibreOffice last year. Have no issues with it at all. I'm not really an advanced Office user and only use Office for basic needs really, mostly word documents. But, it works perfectly well for me. I can do all the things I did on Office 2007 in LibreOffice. I'm not interested in having multiple different subscriptions for everything these days.
LibreOffice plus Google Drive works well enough for me.

How do advanced Office users find working with LibreOffice? I'm genuinely interested to see how it stacks up compared to the latest MS offerings.

 

[Barman58]

I've used LibreOffice and other office clones in business, most of the time they are fine for most documents. The issue is that everything is fine until you try to work with a group or individual that is using word, (or another Clone version).

The major issue concerns sharing documents where the output will have minor spacing and layout differences in the clone compared with Office - maybe this is acceptable for general internal documents but the same is not true with documents that are destined for customers, suppliers, government agencies, etc, a lot of which could need to be automatically "read" so the data boxes on a form for instance have to always be in an identical position from at least two edges.

It a system where the document could move from department to department, or company to company, there is no leeway for variation, the discrepancy is often magnified due to a document going through may hands

 

[Brds7t7]

Thanks Barman, interesting to read. So for the average home user I'm guessing it's fine, but documents don't always transfer 100% like for like between clients, so lacking a little in a business environment.

Also, would the lack of an email client in LibreOffice be a big deal breaker when it comes to business use? I personally switched to Thunderbird a few years ago, after they retired Windows Live Mail. Even though I did have Outlook 2007 installed on my PCs, I didn't use it. I'm guessing clients like TB wouldn't be an option in a business environment? I'm self-employed, but the work I do now isn't Office based, in fact I haven't worked in an Office for about 20 years. So I'm a little out of the loop when it comes to that.

Again, I'm just a basic email user and all my accounts are just standard Hotmail or Gmail accounts.

 

[Barman58]

A lot of enterprise users are totally reliant on Exchange for internal and external company communication, groupshare for work tasks, and scheduling, as there are few if any alternatives for Outlook when dealing with exchange then for companies who use it it is an essential. Also of course The interaction potential between exchange and the office suite make Outlook an essential link to tie things together. Outlook has always been available separate from office in some markets where Open source Office suites are used in government and education in developing area for cost reasons, but the integration is nowhere as developed as can be seen with Office, Outlook, and exchange

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I've used LibreOffice and other office clones in business, most of the time they are fine for most documents. The issue is that everything is fine until you try to work with a group or individual that is using word, (or another Clone version).

The major issue concerns sharing documents where the output will have minor spacing and layout differences in the clone compared with Office - maybe this is acceptable for general internal documents but the same is not true with documents that are destined for customers, suppliers, government agencies, etc, a lot of which could need to be automatically "read" so the data boxes on a form for instance have to always be in an identical position from at least two edges.

It a system where the document could move from department to department, or company to company, there is no leeway for variation, the discrepancy is often magnified due to a document going through may hands

One word: PDF.

Seriously, exporting ODT files to PDF makes them formatting stable and readable for everyone, no matter what platform they are using. I have my LibreOffice installations set to embeded the original document inside the PDF when I export it so, to simplify editing the PDF later, all I need to do is open the PDF in the appropriate LibreOffice app, usually (almost always, actually), for me, Writer. I almost ways export to PDF, then discard the original ODT file since I can always retrieve it from the PDF if ncessary. It's easier than keeping ODT and PDF versions of the same document.

 

[Barman58]

Its the save / export differences, between office and the clones to the output format, that's the issue and this would still be present even if you use a PDF format for storage -

The embedded "original" ODF would be different from the ODF that has been edited in Word

The only way that may work is create a .PDF from the original document either from a DOCx or ODF with specific options such as to ensure that the PDF was identical wherever it was from, and then you from then on only directly edit the .PDF with PDF edit software.

The fact is that when dealing with a document containing positionally specific objects which may be edited by multiple users, you must choose either Word or one of the clones to exclusively work with the document, as they are not sufficiently compatible. also of course the divergence goes both ways so with a document that goes back and forth between multiple team members the minor changes would soon multiply to a level where it is very obvious.

In a company where there is no interaction with outside agencies where you have no control is involved you can switch all of your employees to any office system as long as this system is used exclusively.

A few of the issue may of course be intentional - Microsoft has already replaced it's proprietary .DOC format to DOCx due to the format being reverse engineered and used in early clones - it may be a useful test to dig out a 20 year .Doc and print it in a 20 year old word and then in Office 2019, (365) and see if they have visible differences.

These minor changes are important to companies who want an specific company image...

Many years ago I developed a system for constructing quotations from set phases and boilerplate text - the engineer would tick boxes on a screen or paper sheet and the WP operator would duplicate these selections in the Word Processor, because all the WP operators had their own idea of the company standard for presentation all the auto text, and images was inserted into pre formatted blank documents, so that they all gave an acceptable output style - this was built on WordPerfect and then needed completely updating as time past and versions changed, I did actually update it to Word when windows and Office took off

 

[LevelBest]

I've made up my mind what I'm going to do come January 2020. I'm going to stick with Seven and not upgrade to Ten. To this end, I've spent a few days moving across music, documents and photos onto my second laptop which is for storage only and not connected to the net and taking same off the Samsung, my net laptop. I've also backed up everything on two external hard drives.

I may get the premium version of MWBytes at some point.

ON the windows update advising end of product, it states Internet Explorer will no longer be supported but I use Chrome mostly so would that be safe or would it be vulnerable as it's being run on an unsupported OS?

LB

 

[Brds7t7]

I can't see Google dropping Chrome support on 7 for at least a couple of years. So, I wouldn't worry about that for now.

As for IE, if you're not going to use it, you can just disable it from the control panel. Under "Programs and Features" click "Turn Windows Features on or off" and uncheck Internet Explorer. It doesn't completely remove it, but does disable it.

 

[LevelBest]

I can't see Google dropping Chrome support on 7 for at least a couple of years. So, I wouldn't worry about that for now.

As for IE, if you're not going to use it, you can just disable it from the control panel. Under "Programs and Features" click "Turn Windows Features on or off" and uncheck Internet Explorer. It doesn't completely remove it, but does disable it.

Thanks for that, I feel the plan is coming together now.

It would be interesting to hear from XP users who continued to use the OS after support ended, to see what their experience was like.

LB

 

[Brds7t7]

After 7 was released, I didn't use XP on any systems other than VMs. But, I had no issues using it even without the security updates. I still used an XP VM until last year. But, I have a lot of boxed retail versions of 7 and I found myself using XP less and less, so eventually deleted it. There are still some businesses using XP today.

Here in the UK, I believe there are parts of the NHS still using XP systems, or at least they were until quite recently. Even after the EOL in 2014, they still pushed out a security update for the SMB1 Wannacry ransomware/exploit in 2017.

I have a feeling 7 will be around after EOL even longer than XP was. 7 still has a big user share. It'll take a while to kill it off.

 

[michael diemer]

A thought which occurred to me recently, if you're going to use W7 beyond EOL, and plan to keep it offline: What about reinstalling (with SP1 disc) and then not updating? you would then have a "perfect" system, free of malware and uncorrupted by Windows updates. If you were only going to use it for Office, e.g. you could install just Office updates to get up to speed. I still have a W98 computer, which was never updated, because it was never online. I recently reinstalled W98 (quite an experience, I had to use a tutorial), and it boots really fast and is quite snappy. A W7 in this condition would be even better. It could be forever, provided you only used it for specific purposes.

 

[LevelBest]

A thought which occurred to me recently, if you're going to use W7 beyond EOL, and plan to keep it offline: What about reinstalling (with SP1 disc) and then not updating? you would then have a "perfect" system, free of malware and uncorrupted by Windows updates. If you were only going to use it for Office, e.g. you could install just Office updates to get up to speed. I still have a W98 computer, which was never updated, because it was never online. I recently reinstalled W98 (quite an experience, I had to use a tutorial), and it boots really fast and is quite snappy. A W7 in this condition would be even better. It could be forever, provided you only used it for specific purposes.

The Sony laptop has Never been connected to the net so it has never received updates and has never been exposed to potential malware. It had Office 2007 put on from new, that's never had updates either. It all works perfectly, and is super quick and is only used for docs/photos/music. And yes, I hope it is forever.

 

[IliasGR]

Personally,i will continue using w7 after EOL.I can say that w7 is the best os that i have ever used,from all the sides(compatibility-stability).The only "update" that i did was the "service pack 1"

 

[dperecky]

Personally,i will continue using w7 after EOL.I can say that w7 is the best os that i have ever used,from all the sides(compatibility-stability).The only "update" that i did was the "service pack 1"

Makes sense.... Windows 7 is still immensely popular... According to a google search, as of last month - March 2019, Win7 is still on 35% of all computers worldwide. Desktop Windows Version Market Share Worldwide | StatCounter Global Stats

 

[IliasGR]

Makes sense.... Windows 7 is still immensely popular... According to a google search, as of last month - March 2019, Win7 is still on 35% of all computers worldwide. Desktop Windows Version Market Share Worldwide | StatCounter Global Stats

Yeah and keep in mind,the "tricks" that MS did to force users to upgrade to w10.Without this "force" the difference could be lower.

 

[SandraChung]

Installing the Roll out as I type

I had to call MS for some tech help and it was amusing how he kept trying to get me to say "So you want to upgrade to Windows 10". I had to YELL at him and say no, I didn't. I subscribe to Assure, so even with Windows 7, if I have a problem, it gets seen to. If it's Windows XP (run it on my Win 7 as a VM) I hear much sighing and tongue clicking, but still get assistance if needed.

As for Win 7 or XP not being secure, untrue. There are software makers that plug the holes and prevent shenanigans from hackers, hijackers, and malware writers.

As it stand now, the only thing I had trouble with is the Win10 drive (dual boot system). It refuses to update, task manager wouldn't run, and out of the blue, blue tooth drivers stopped loading (they're signed by Win 10 insists they aren't, and yes, I have tried disabling signing to no avail) . Their idea is to wipe everything and do a refresh. Problem is, I have some software that is charged per installation, not per machine. Turns out my Surface Pro had same version and release as my Win10 drive, so I copied task manager over, and it works fine now. Only issue, can't install Cumulative Updates and bluetooth drivers won't load. I will probably end up reinstalling but not yet.

 

[Hey Man]

Greetings,

I am not very knowledgeable about Microsoft as a company and the reasons why they do the things they do, but from a business perspective - I would appreciate if someone here can explain something to me beyond Microsoft being the devil.

So clearly Microsoft is aware like millions of computer users that Windows XP and Windows 7 have been incredibly popular to the point where they know users didn't want to give them up for what Windows released next in Vista, 8 and 10. Basically the attitude for XP and 7 has been "from my cold dead hands" in terms of giving up those operating systems for the junk that Windows replaced them with.

Now since Microsoft have this knowledge, as a business wanting to be able to compete with Apple among others and keep their customers happy - why are they not giving people a modern version of XP and 7. Basically all the things you loved about XP and 7, but with 2019 technology features. It seems like a no-brainer. Give the customer want they want and watch all the praise you will get and money. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It just doesn't make sense from a business perspective to say OK, people obviously love what we did with XP and 7, so let's totally screw people over with 10 and give them something that they are going to hate. It would be like any other business taking their most popular product and changing it for no reason or a restaurant taking their most popular dish and changing it to something that makes it not the same. It's moronic.

Post Cereal learned this the hard way, when they changed Honey Comb cereal to a new version. People hated it and like New Coke, Post Cereal returned almost immediately to the classic Honey Comb cereal.

So can someone explain from a business perspective - why Microsoft isn't having board meetings saying let's just give people a 2020 version of Windows 7. It is what people want and they will buy the hell out of it if it determined by reviews that it really is a modern version of 7 in every way.

Thanks!