Windows XP compatability mode Vs VMWARE

[jimbo45]

Hi all

Just some thoughts on using "XP mode" or Vmware for Virtual machines.

1) XP Compatability mode

XP mode is better integrated and can run typical business legacy apps from the desktop quite nicely -- more suited to "1-off" virtual machines for a normal "Office" type user.

Windows XP SP3 guest OS is already installed and activated and from windows explorer can view local HOST disks from the VM.

Currently FREE complete with a copy of Windows XP SP3 (and it's got keys already built in -- the serial number is in the text file).

BUT - screen adapter only works in 16 bit mode so don't run Photoshop or any photo editing software. You also need to do a bit of fiddling to enable "classical networking" althouth IE Internet browsing is enabled "straight out of the box".

You also need VT enabled to run this which means a 64 bit CPU. (Note you DON'T have to be running x-64 of course).

I'm not sure if the Virtual PC software which this runs on supports any guest OS'es other than windows.

2) VMWARE

Better overall performance and a better screen adapter so you can use photoshop etc decently.

However you need to obtain separately, license your OS and install it just like a physical OS.

You don't need to use VT however - you will need this feature to run a 64 bit guest.

You can run VM's "In Teams". -- If you don't know what that means - you don't need it but for those that do this is actually quite a useful feature.

Easier also to "Clone" VM's -- not impossible with Virtual PC but this is straight from the menu with vmware.

P2V and V2P operation is possible.

So "You pays your money and takes your choice".

For an office type scenario Compatability mode is good.

For home users / developers I'd go the "separate software like vmware / virtual box" route.

As an experiment I'm going to see if I can do a V2P (Virtual to Physical) conversion of the XP mode built in XP system and see if it's "activateable" or even needs activation.

Will report back on that later.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Ronaldo]

nice post mate,

whats better for a home user, virtual box or vmwareplayer (the free one)

which is faster and will any of them run aero in win7?

thank you

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there "Penalty taker"

Virtual Box is free and can allow you to define and create virtual machines.
Vmplayer only allows you to use already created and configured virtual machines.

However using QEMU.exe to format some virtual disks you can by creating a config file build some virtual machines which you can use with vmplayer.

Both are good but probably if you don't have vmware workstation Virtual Box might be easier to set up and use.

The vmware software doesn't actually need VT enabled to work. Not sure about Virtual box.

Vmware server is another FREE solution which you can use to create virtual machines -- whilst a little bit complex as a free solution I'd look at that one.

The "stand alone" software like vbox / vmware is likely to perform better because it's running as a totally sepaarate application and doesn't have to handle the "Integration with Windows" -- but remember compatability mode is new and will certainly be improved -- particularly from the video - as the current video driver only gives 16 bit colours etc.

None of them will run aero yet -- that's a current limitation of the VM environment.
3D and other graphics won't work due to the "Virtual Bios" and hardware in current vmsoftware.

You could try "XEN" in a linux distro -- but that's definitely not a task for anybody other than a Guru. Even to get Windows to work under Xen is a real challenge but if you can do it then you *Should* be able to get aero to work.



Cheers
jimbo

 

[Ronaldo]

i'v used both in the past but was wondering if things changed dramatically, i like virtualbox as its VERY simple to use and looks more clean in windows mode.

 

[jimwillsher]

I deal a lot with VMs, getting Microsoft Dynamics AX VMs as part of my job. These are usually huge, perhaps 24GB, and with lots of applications installed - Server 2003, SQL Server, Project Server, Dynamics AX, Excel, Word etc. They need a good chunk of memory to perform well.

The first thing I do is convert these from Virtual PC to VMWare format. VMWare is just *so* much snappier than Virtual PC 2007. I had a quick look at Windows Virtual PC (the new beta) yesterday, and I still think VWMare performs better.

I'm running VMWare Workstation on the Win 7 RC and it's running VMs very well.

I've not tried VirtualBox but it does look worthwhile investigating.

Just my thoughts...


Jim

 

[Barman58]

Thread Moved

Have been playing with Virtualbox, (needed a copy of XP to hand for testing), and AFAIK you do not need the hardware visualization to run.

Also on the latest version there is an option to enable 3D Acceleration, only running on 2 GB so not sure what it will do for graphics capabilities.

VirtualBox

 

[z3r010]

The thing most people here seem to be missing with Windows 7 Virtual XP mode is the seamless application integration from the XP Virtual machine to the Win7 host, people are trying to compare VMware & Virtualbox to the new Windows Virtual PC, but none of these others offer the level of integration to make this a truly useful tool.

 

[jimwillsher]

I'm not so sure it's *that* useful. Vista has been out for three years, and the number of applications that don't run on Vista must be getting less and less each day. Of course, there's always esoteric stuff, and 16-bit apps, that won't work - but do people still really, genuinely need to run them?

I use virtualisation every day - as I write this I have three VMs running. But for me it's whole-system VMs that I need - at the moment I have three separate copies of Windows 2003 server running as virtualised machines.

Microsoft has clearly introduced this functionality to persuade people to make the leap from XP to Windows 7 - they now have no excuses for "...it won't run on Vista/Win 7..." etc.

I accept that my situation will be different to many others. But as a Microsoft Gold Partner working with lots of customer and end-users, I can't think of anyone who would need this new feature. They either need full-system virtualisation, or nothing at all.

Anyway, this thread has gone a bit off-topic (partly my fault) so I'll apologise for that....


Jim

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
this feature is for your typical "Office" user. If you are running several VM's then this feature is NOT intended for you. The feature assumes that you can just one time install your apps and in cases where the guest OS will rarely change.

Imagine you have an old Legacy CRM or even a "Call Center / Service desk" type application (for example SAP CIC or maybe your own version).

Imagine also that you have say 60 PC's.

Now you can say install 5 new Windows 7 PC's running exactly the same software without disrupting the business with "New servers" etc etc.

The "Built in XP" system works straight from the Box -- no (or very limited) guest configuration and installs required. No extra networking facilities required either. This just plugs straight in.

Users just click CIC application just like they did in the past and see identical screens etc etc.

You can then gradually update the rest of the hardware also without altering your main applications, corporate servers or firewalls.

Now you can also look for possible W7 software solutions.

This solution isn't intended for Power users / developers or LARGE organisations who will probably have a whole IT dept dedicated to this sort of stuff but will allow small to medium businesses to upgrade almost 100% painlessly.

(A network of 60 PC's might be considered Large and it probably would have a dedicated IT dept - but you should get the idea).

People have very much missed the whole point of "XP compatability mode" if they are comparing this with stand alone software such as VBOX and VMWARE.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[z3r010]

People have very much missed the whole point of "XP compatability mode" if they are comparing this with stand alone software such as VBOX and VMWARE.

TBH from what i'm reading around here, I think almost everbody has missed the point lol

 

[Ex_Brit]

I'm getting somewhat confused with the plethora of Virtual this-and-that & all the associated terminology, Windows VM and Virtual PC 2007 etc. etc.

My M/B wont support hardware virtualization so am assuming that, should I ever want to go the virtual route for any reason, I would have to use VMWare or Virtual PC 2007 or similar?

 

[z3r010]

Yes

 

[Ex_Brit]

You're a man of few words. Thanks.

 

[LouisinLondon]

People have very much missed the whole point of "XP compatability mode" if they are comparing this with stand alone software such as VBOX and VMWARE.

TBH from what i'm reading around here, I think almost everbody has missed the point lol

Hi guys, I don't think anyone missed the point... most are actually quite spot on,

XP mode is nothing other than standalone software that you need to download and install, which comes with a copy of Windows XP and even a text file containing the serial...,. It's also only available in some editions, and Virtualization has to be available on your hardware... (why make this more difficult route than VMWare server or Virtuabox?)

Quoting the Windows 7 "XP mode" Features webpage

Windows XP Mode also requires virtualization software such as Windows Virtual PC. Both are available free on the Microsoft website.

To download Windows XP Mode or learn about its system requirements, visit the Windows Virtual PC website.

OK, so this means:
---------------------
1) Its just the same as standalone alternatives, need to download, install windows etc...or throw a pre-configured windows VM onto it.
2) The features that Jimbo45 pointed out to are available in all the other alternatives
3) It "new features" (Windows integration) has been available in VMware, Virtuabox or Parallels (on Mac) for 3 years
4) Its free, but still just Virtual PC, just like many others.

At the University where I've implemented Virtual machines (server side but also client side to facilitate teaching of some courses) Virtual PC 2007 just did not suffice.

Problems with Virtual PC 2007:
-----------------------------------
Doesn't run Linux virtual machines well, which Windows7 students will need to run if you're teaching networking or security in heterogeneous environments.
Proprietary file format, so tough to move around if you moved to another OS (even just temporarily)


Not sure why Microsoft calls it "XP mode" -
===========================
They should rather call it:

"Download, install and run Virtual PC 2007, then install a full installation of Windows XP as a virtual machine, have all the hassles you've always had with XP, but at least you will accommodate your older software because developers coded really badly so the software can't be ported" -- mode

Maybe CodeWeavers delivers Compatibility for Mac and Linux. Your Windows Mac and Linux Crossover solution - CodeWeavers - who brought out products like Crossover for Linux and for Mac (which installs a very small virtual Windows environment bottle -commercial version of Wine) should bring out a Crossover for Windows 7.

CrossOver Bottles Features - CodeWeavers

BENEFITS of a setup like that includes:
========================
Basically from their page, to give the general idea.

CrossOver allows you to maintain multiple bottles in one CrossOver installation. This is like having several different Windows machines operating together on your computer.

This is useful anytime you want to install multiple applications yet prevent them from interacting or damaging one another. For example: Typically the Internet Explorer 6.0 installer upgrades any existing Internet Explorer 5.0 installation. Using bottles it is possible to install Internet Explorer 6.0 into a new, empty bottle, while leaving an existing install of Internet Explorer 5.0 intact and untouched, thus letting web developers run both simultaneously.

I'm disappointed in XP mode, because I believed they would follow this Wine route, instead of just a VM install which will require its own AntiVirus (as Windows does) etc etc etc .

For a Clear understanding of the differences :
CrossOver Differentiators - CodeWeavers

(Wow, I wish they had an affiliate system , cause I do sound like a salesman don't I, not the intention, Only presenting my views on "XP-mode")

 

[rosahas]

Just to make an update to this thread, as I was wondering about the same question, now VMware does include an option very similar to what Windows XP mode allows. I have VMware Workstation 7.0.1 and using their Unity feature.

Looks like it was introduced in Ver 6.5:
VMware Workstation 6.5 Release Notes

Unity mode — Integrate your favorite guest applications with your host. Open the application window, enter Unity mode, and the Workstation window is automatically minimized. The guest application windows look just like host application windows, but with color-coded borders. You can access the virtual machine's Start menu (for Windows virtual machines) or Applications menu (for Linux virtual machines) by placing the mouse pointer over the host's Start or Applications menu, or by using a key combination.

It works great.. I have IE running on my Linux box this way right now

 

[pparks1]

Yes, I've posted numerous times on here that Unity and VMWare Player (Free) or VMWare Workstation (not-free) are an awesome combination.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Since I originally posted this thread vmware (and vbox) have improved considerably.

As pparks1 says the UNITY feature will provide most of the integration features of XPMode.

Vmplayer now (version 3) will allow you to CREATE Virtual machines as well as running them - although the old QEMU method still works.

Vmware player and workstation support W7 virtual machines in FULL AERO / 3D.

vmware server may do so later - but this product is updated usually a lot later than vmware player or workstation.

vmware products (if you have the VT feature enabled) will allow you to run 64 bit GUESTS on 32 bit HOSTS so you can run W7 X-64 or even W2008 server X-64 on say Windows 2003 server or even Windows XP --although of course as the HOST can only see up to 4GB your VM will also have less RAM available.

Note however you don't need to have the VT feature enabled to run vmware products but then you can only run 32 bit guests -- which is probably what most of the Forum members are interested in running anyway (XP primarily as a Virtual Machine with posibly some Windows 2000 users too).

Vmware products (and vbox -- although I haven't direct experience of vbox) will run on ANY version of windows 7 - not just professional and above.

With vmware you will have to provide your OWN version of XP (although there are some threads that explain how you can extract the XP from XP mode to run under vmware).

I think that XP mode was a good idea when introduced - but things have moved on considerably in the year or so its been out.

Moving "XP" type applications away from a desktop onto a "Virtual Server" might just be a much much better option for businesses as the performance is likely to be hugely better in any case. Even if employees are using company laptops the avilability of "VPN" and fast broadband internet the server route is likely to be much more beneficial.

I'm trying to see exactly what applications would you run in "XP Mode" -- perhaps people could give a list here.

Things like SAPGUI (the front end) WILL actually run on W7 - the backend of these still needs a 32 bit OS and can run quite happliy on a W2K3 virtual server -- as can several of the CAD packages that are still used in the 100,000's globally.

As for cost -- it would probably be cheaper for a company to license products to run on a server rather than zillions of desktop licenses - and certainly would be easier to maintain.

You will always need some stand alone desktop products such as typical office apps (EXCEL etc) but I'm now failing to either understand or see the need for XM MODE for daily "productive use". Virtual machines on the other hand have a HUGE role to play these days as individual machines can easily be tailored for gropus of users etc.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[webulator70]

Vmware workstation by far,

-It was the first to do d3d and now does d3d 9c and opengl 2.1.
-It does multi monitors.
-7.1 beta can integrate shortcuts into the host start button like xp mode
-It lets you drag and drop files in and out of it and also cut/copy and paste between vm and host os.
-Definitely the fastest of all, not only does it do things faster but you can even see its smoother if you drag a window around or something.
-Like xp mode it integrates into the host start bar when doing seamless/unity mode, (but it has been able to do this since atleast 1.5 years ago so its quite refined now.)
-A virtualized Windows Vista or 7 can do aero in the virtual machine.

If you dont need save states, (which is another thing Vmware does the best of the 3), there is always the free Vmware player, baring that, Virtualpc is a decent 2nd choice, (and maybe the best choice for linux guests), as it can do some form of d3d and opengl and also use a vmlite plugin for guest shortcut launching but it cannot do most of the other stuff mentioned above as well or at all.

As someone who has used all 3 VMs for years (Vmware, Virtualbox and Virtualpc/xpmode), I can now tell you i see absolutely no reason to continue using Virtualpc/xpmode.

I feel that microsoft really could have done better with Virtualpc, being stuck in 16 bit colour is pretty lame and it is lacking in just about every way compared to the alternatives. It does not live up to the high standard set by the os it was made for. Virtualbox does show quite a bit of promise, I just hope oracle does not screw it up.

One more thing, both virtual box and Vmware workstation/player can import xpmode once its installed so you can still have a legal free copy of xp on them.

tldr: Vmware if you dont mind that its not free, Vmware player if you want it free, Virtualbox if you need a free one with save states and imo virtrualpc/xpmode = uuuugh.

 

[RhoXS]

I upgraded from XP to W7 in November, 2009 and immediately found the software and twain drivers required for our HP scanner with high speed document feeder were not compatible with W7. Since this was an expensive scanner and still worked well I was forced into a a Plan B.

I originally used XP mode to run the scanner and associated software (HP PrecisionScan Pro and Paperport). This worked but it was slow and kludgy. Simply, it was annoying to use.

In November, 2010 someone suggested I try VMWare. What a huge improvement! Everything now works just as fast as it did under the original XP environment (before W7), there are no stutters, and no crashes. VMWare recognizes and allows use of USB connected devices effortlessly rather than the issues I had with USB device under the troublesome XP mode. Under XP mode I had to start the needed software in a specific sequence or it crashed. Under VM there are just no problems.

From my experience the free VMWare is outstanding whereas XP mode just sucked in terms of reliable and fast performance.

Interestingly, I still must use 32 bit W7. I tried installing 64 bit W7, and VMware on a machine I use for testing and did so with no problems. Paperport and HP PrecisionScan Pro also installed without issue. Howerver, with 64 bit W7, the HP twain drivers will just not work and the software just does not communicate with the scanner, even though the scanner is seen and properly installed per the Device manager.