Safest Way to Clone Windows 7 Volume for Dual Booting

[Trailerman]

Hi

Can anyone advise on the absolute safest, most foolproof way of cloning/copying an existing Windows 7 volume onto either the same drive, or a separate drive, with a view to creating a robust dual boot envorinment?

I've tried this before and had boot issues afterwards, so I'd be grateful for any advice on:

1. Is it better to clone onto a seperate drive, or a new partition on the same drive or does it not matter?

2. What is the best software to do this with - Paragon, Ghost, Acronis are the ones I'm aware of, which clone volumes and in some cases offer boot manager functionality?

3. Can anyone tell me step by step how they would do this, what advanced settings are important, and critically, how I can avoid creating an environment where I have too identical volumes and MBR's which causes all manner of boot problems?

4. Do the experts consider it safer to use Windows 7's own multi-boot abilities to manage booting, or is a 3rd partry boot manager preferred?

Many many thanks in advance. I've no doubt this information would be helpful for others also, as it's hard to find a definitive guide on this, at least from what I can make out.

Jules

 

[Bare Foot Kid]

Hello again.



To start, it is always preferable whenever possible to use the BIOS to "manage" a dual boot, have a look at the info below for some ideas how to go about that.

The way I would suggest is to purchase a good program like Paragon 11 Home and just start learning how to use it, that's how I started with it.

Partition Manager 11 Personal

   Information

The easiest way to do away with boot issues between separate Operating Systems (OS) is to use the BIOS one time boot menu to select which OS to boot at system startup, each motherboard has an individual hot-key to tap during system start-up to access this menu.

If you have 2 separate Hard Disk Drives (HDD) and have one OS installed to one HDD and you want to install another OS to the second HDD, disconnect the HDD with the first OS installed on it and leave only the HDD you want to install the second OS to connected.

Just be sure not to change where the original HDD SATA cable was connected, it has to be re-connected to the exact same port to avoid boot issues.

Install the second OS to the connected HDD and when complete and the system is booting good, power down and reconnect the first HDD with the first OS on it.

This way the OSs will boot independently of each other and there will be no boot conflicts between the 2 separate OSs to have to sort later.

Then set the BIOS to boot the HDD / OS you want as default and if you want to start the other (new) OS you use the BIOS one-time boot menu to select that HDD / OS to start when the PC is started.

​

 

[Night Hawk]

What was found here for setting up a working dual boot with an image of the host/boot drive restored to the second was problematic when using the built in option for creating full images. The solution was to create an image with the help of Acronis and restoring that to the second identical drive.

Both WD and Seagate provide their own free version of the Acronis Disk Director suite where you have the option for direct cloning or restoring an image onto a second drive. The cloning takes twice as long and will see problems if you add a new entry into the host drive's BCD store for a boot option.

The direct restoration however allows the use of the EacyBCD program for adding the entry in for the second drive. This eliminates the need to press the assigned F key used for bringing up the boot device menu and setting the default OS as well.

 

[Trailerman]

Many thanks for your help Bare Foot and Nighthawk.

I'll look into both those suggestions. I realize that the safest approach is to install Windows again from scratch, but if there was a safe way to use a clone of my existing OS, it would save me a good 4 days of additional installation work.

I'm getting the impression that alot of people on this forum are using Paragon, so I guess that's my best option for this kind of thing.

Thanks again for the help.

Jules

 

[Bare Foot Kid]

You're welcome, glad we could help.

 

[Night Hawk]

If you have a to be 3rd drive present you could create an image while booted in a working copy of 7 and see that stored on the to be 3rd drive. From that point with the original source drive unplugged you would simply boot live from the 7 dvd to see the "latest image recommended" option that would take you right to the same image just made and watch that restored to the second to new host/boot drive.

The full system option without need for any 3rd party software has been proven to be reliable after numerous images have been restored since the beginning of the year in fact on the old case before that went and sees monthly images on the replacement updated build.

The 100mb boot partition and everything you select to be included will be present once the image is restored the way it was when first made. Note that restoring an image first sees that the destination is wiped completely to prep the drive for the image to be unpacked on it. Backup any new files added between image creation and restoration. http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/663-backup-complete-computer-create-image-backup.html

 

[Trailerman]

Hi Night Hawk

Many thanks for your response.

Just so I'm sure I've understood the methodology correctly:

1. Step 1, create backup image of OS volume (Drive 1) onto Drive 2.
2. Step 2, unplug Drive 1.
3. Step 3, boot using Win7 DVD and select to restore an image file.
4. Step 4, restore image from Drive 2 to Drive 3.

Do I then need to change the boot order in my Bios when I reconnect Drive 1? How will the system know which Win7 volume to boot from, and how do I then go about setting up a multi-boot environment so I can boot into Drive 3 for testing and Drive 1 for working?

Thanks again for your help, and sorry if I'm being a little dumb here.

Jules

 

[gregrocker]

If you're using WD or Seagate on either of the drives involved, they have excellent free Acronis cloning apps you can download from their Support web page for your model. Then you can just clone one HD over to the other.

 

[Night Hawk]

Hi Night Hawk

Many thanks for your response.

Just so I'm sure I've understood the methodology correctly:

1. Step 1, create backup image of OS volume (Drive 1) onto Drive 2.
2. Step 2, unplug Drive 1.
3. Step 3, boot using Win7 DVD and select to restore an image file.
4. Step 4, restore image from Drive 2 to Drive 3.

Do I then need to change the boot order in my Bios when I reconnect Drive 1? How will the system know which Win7 volume to boot from, and how do I then go about setting up a multi-boot environment so I can boot into Drive 3 for testing and Drive 1 for working?

Thanks again for your help, and sorry if I'm being a little dumb here.

Jules

Greg is quite correct about both WD and Seagate having their own free versions of the Acronis Disk Director suite. I used the WD version on the WD drives here at times but went for the full version I grabbed up at a local office supply store.

1) The first step is deciding which method you will use. 1) direct clone or 2) restore image made from original source drive(Drive #1)

2) The setup for seeing a dual boot of two drives gets involved to see the best actual working results. The host/boot was first backed up with the image option found in the CP>Backup & Restore for that drive. The second drive saw an image of the first drive made with Acronis.

Note the 3rd drive is the last since that will first need to hold the image to be restored on the new host/boot drive. Once the image is created you will need to shuffle drives around then seeing the source drive become the new storage drive for the Acronis image actually best made from the new host once the first image restored is found to be good and in working order.

3) Restore 7 made image to new host now plugged into sata port #1 and made default. Run everything from this drive to insure all is well. Download and install the EasyBCD 2.0.2 release and install but wait for adding new entry in for the to be test drive.

3) Once the new host drive is found good and old drive plugged in as 3rd drive Secondary sata master(note all three have to be same type for this to work) the next step is creating the second image with the Acronis suite(free or retail) and store image on old host drive.

(note restoring an image to a drive will mean anything present on the drive will be wiped completely. Be sure to back things up from the new host drive and later to be second drive before proceeding.)

4) The second drive to be the test drive cannot see the 7 made image restored there and added into the new host drive's boot loader since a new boot entry will result in trashing the host! The drive number and id the 7 backup tool uses creates a unigue id for that drive alone unlike Acronis which works independently.

The image made with Acronis will be suitable for the second drive when imaging the new host drive and seeing that image restored on the new Drive #2. If you decide to restore a 7 made image to the second drive you would also need to unplug the new host or first drive while doing so since that will effectively clone the first as if you saw a direct clone and made into a stand alone drive.

5) With the acronis image restored to the planned second test drive you can then create a new boot entry once the drive letter is assigned for it on the host drive's Disk Management tool there.

You have to that taken care and entry that drive letter to associate the new entry to that. If F in the DM you would choose F in the add new entry option from the dropdown list of available drive letters.

Once you have both drives running your regular image backup of the new host should be performed with the built-in system image option and stored on a separate drive. The test drive backup would be a second Acronis image of the host requiring the old drive or other 3rd drive designated to store two images.

That's a bit to take in at first since I'm working with 4 internal and one external drive here. When going to create any new image of the host drive later you will first need to remove the entry for the second test drive when planning to restore that to the second drive to avoid seeing the useless entry when going to load the test drive.

You will still want to keep the host drive as the default OS or without any entry for the second test opt for the boot device menu each time you plan to boot into the test drive without any option for that when starting the system. The idea of using the 7 option for creating images of the host and restoring them is the option to start the restoration while booted in Windows and watch as it restarts and runs the restoration tool loaded into memory without any need to boot from the 7 dvd or repair cd.

3rd party programs like Acronis will require the use of a live recovery cd for restoring an image to the host drive while secondary drives can be restored while still booted in the host drive''s own copy of 7 there. You can be doing other things while Acronis restores the latest image to the second drive without any system restart making that the ideal option.

Later when having the entry for the test drive added in the host BCD you simply select that from the boot options or pressing the designated F key for the boot device options menu you boot into the test drive then seeing an updated image restored.

In fact while posting this reply the image just made of the host with Acronis here is being restored to the second. The captures attached here will show how that looks.

 

[Trailerman]

Night Hawk - thanks so much for taking the time to go into so much detail.

Let me digest everything you've written and then figure out the best way of doing this at my end. I'm happy to buy Acronis and use that, and would prefer to work on a partition level, rather than a drive level where possible, as I don't have multiple identical drives in the system. I just need to try and figure out how that would work.

Greg - I'm sure you're right that Acronis is probably the way to go. I have Seagaate and WD drives, but I'm also happy to buy the full version if it simplifies processes like this.

Many thanks again.

Jules

 

[Night Hawk]

The method I used here to get a dual boot working was a trip to start with! This is why you would need to see a lengthy description.

If you go end going with the full version it will be universal for all makes. That's one advantage besides being the full featured version. One thing else Acronis can do is mount the image of C for example where you will see a second C drive in an explorer window. The icon will be different.

What that does is allow you to add or even remove files from an existing image in an incremental fashion. In other words you don't have to spend the time replacing an image just made due to new files being added which saves time.

Once you have cloned or imaged the new host you will have fun trying this out no matter how you do it for seeing the next drive imaged and added in as a dual boot. There's no doubt on that one! :roflmao:

 

[gregrocker]

There is no reason to buy Acronis since both Seagate and WD offer excellent free versions which willl allow you to either clone directly or transfer via image from one HD to the other.

 

[Night Hawk]

There is no reason to buy Acronis since both Seagate and WD offer excellent free versions which willl allow you to either clone directly or transfer via image from one HD to the other.

It all depends on whether or not you are even running WD or Seagate drives or some other make like Hitachi. The free versions are intended for one brand or the other.

As for what was actually found to work the best overall the system image option already included in 7 and that's free! The use of Acronis to start with is for restoring an image made of the first and being to add that into the host install's BCD store without trashing the host.

In other words once the new host drive OSed by a direct clone or restored image made by the system image in 7 the drive is maintained with the built-in feature. A second image is made by Acronis to be restored to the to be second test drive.

The full version of Acronis was also found more reliable over the free version for this type of project. But whether or not someone buys the full version of any software that's still personal preference there.

The real task is making sure you make a new image of the host drive in the event the addition of the imaged test drive into the host boot loader ends up see the need to restore the host drive when that becomes unbootable. This is why two different methods have to be used.

 

[mjf]

If you want to copy your windows 7 OS & application environment to a new drive (for use on the same computer).
(1) MS image all desired partitions (if you have a system reserved it's automatically included) to an external HDD
(2) Put in the new drive (at least as big as the sum of the size of all partitions imaged) ALONE. Straight out of the bag if a new drive.
(3) Reimage - should boot straight away.
It's worked for me and others and couldn't be any simpler and quick.

I had the free (WD &) Seagate versions of Acronis to clone if needed. I didn't need it but cannot guarantee others the same success.

 

[Night Hawk]

The problem being mentioned isn't simply restoring any image to one drive by itself but when trying to set up a dual boot with two separate drives where the second is seeing an image of the first restored there and then added in as a boot option to the first.

It was Trailerman who was interested in trying this type of project out on his own system there. Since that is involved however and goes into lengthy detail it would need a separate guide in order to cover the drawbacks from not following precise details as you go along in order to see working results.

As far as cloning the 7 installation over to a new drive or restoring an image created from it that's the basics regardless of method used. The direct clone option will work as well as restoring an image made with the system image option found in 7's "Control Panel>Backup & Restore". The host drive here was cloned to the second initially with the free WD version.

For adding the clone into the host boot loader afterwards? Disaster forcing the host drive to be restored when that was made unbootable with the second drive made the only OS. The same was seen when restoring an image made with the option in 7 to a second drive and then added in. Despite the host install being set as default the second drive became the default as well neutralizing the first drive's 7 there forcing another restoration.

Solution as previously mentioned: First the free WD version but by that time the full version was already installed and simply found more reliable from being the full version saw a new image of the host created and restored to the second drive. When the new entry was added in for that "Success Story"! Both drives were independently bootable while configured in a dual boot at the same time.

Previously this idea had been tested out with the RCs a year ago but not to the extent for seeing the second solely used as a test drive for other then 7 at the time. Note a few of those early beta and RC setups in the few images still found.

 

[gregrocker]

Be sure to set the cloning or imaging app to copy over the MBR with the image.

Once you clone or image any HD over to another if it doesn't start up when booted as first HD to boot in BIOS, or using one-time BIOS BOot Menu key, then unplug all other HD's, boot the Win7 DVD Repair console, click through to Recovery Tools list to run Startup Repair up to 3 separate times with reboots until Win7 starts up.
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/105541-startup-repair-run-3-separate-times.html

It may be necessary to mark Win7 active if it has somehow not been marked as such during cloning. http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/71432-partition-mark-active.html

 

[Night Hawk]

Generally you will see check boxes for the mbr, 100mb system reserved, and main partition(s) on the drive you plan to clone or make an image of. If all goes well from the start you should set to go! But there's also the likelihood of a mishap you have to consider since are never any 100% guarantees.

One example of a mishap was just seen when going to restore an image of the Vista install for a dual boot back in June. The first attempt saw the second drive simply turned into unallocated drive space. The second effort saw Vista once again running but the IE 9 Beta install for the 32bit version failed repeatedly indicating a problem despite the 35+updates since June being downloaded and installed.

A 3rd effort was just seen to see if it will go on this time around before a fast quick install of the 32bit 7 in order to run the 32bit since the 64bit went on and ran without issues of any type on the restored image of the host just seen there.

Too often the best results are seen with a clean install and restoration of a backup with the Windows Easy Transfer tool once you have all your programs back on but installed fresh when going to add a new drive in to server as the host/boot/main OS drive. And it's not always the fault of the program used but knowing that you have to be prepared just in case.

 

[Trailerman]

Again - thanks for all the feedback and help.

Just one thing I'm not fully clear on which is mentioned a couple of times in the posts above - copying the MBR when creating an image and then restoring to the new drive. I was under the impression that copying the MBR from one drive to another drive is likely to cause problems, because you then have two different drives with identical MBR's and the system doesn't know which to boot into.

In fact this was the very issue that I think I had when I first posted to this forum, after my initial attempt to clone my Windows 7 volume:

http://www.sevenforums.com/crashes-debugging/117693-multi-boot-nightmares.html

This is basically the issue I am trying to avoid. Creating and restoring the image itself is very straight forward, it's doing it in such a way that I have a properly thought out and stable boot environment which enables safe multi-booting that I am still a little concerned about.

Again, thank you so much for all your help.

Jules

 

[gregrocker]

If you're cloning onto separate HD's to (wisely) Dual Boot via the BIOS, then you want MBR cloned intact to each HD.

If you're cloning onto separate partitions on the same HD, only clone the MBR to first partition. Then when it starts up, Add the second partition OS using EasyBCD 2.0.

 

[Trailerman]

Thanks Greg - all clear.

I guess that means you're advising against using Win7's multi-boot capabilities in that case. If I understand, you would launch Boot Setup (bios) on startup, and enable only the drive you want to use as a bootable device.

If that's the case then presumably all I need to do is create backup image of Drive 1 OS volume (with MBR) on Drive 2, restore to Drive 3 OS partition, reboot and change boot options in bios.

Doesn't seem like there's any need to unplug/replug drives in this scenario or am I missing something?

Many thanks

Jules