Images are more important than ever

[kado897]

Yes that was my first thought and I already use Macrium.

 

[whs]

kado, this is no Rocket Science. You can do it. And if you have questions along the way, keep asking. And follow the advice of BFK - an image can always save your bacon. And report back. I would be interested knowing how you have done.

 

[unifex]

I always keep my data (any of my files: documents, work files, photos, whatever) on a separate partition (in laptops) or even better on separate physical hard drive (in desktops; some laptops allow for a second drive as well). This way my files are protected from any possible system crashes. If I need to re-install Windows my data is not affected in any way.

Moreover, by placing my files on a separate partition/drive allows me to create whatever folder structure I want. With this in mind, I am not sure what is the problem of "integrating a data partition into the Windows data environment". I think the advice whs is giving referrs to the actual standard folders from the C:\Users\YouUsername.

Personally I don't use those folders at all. I put my files into whatever folder I want on my data partition. The standard user folders created by Windows I keep where they were created, or, in case of a SSD, move them to some separate partition on a HDD. This is because some programs insist on writing their temporary files into this structure and I prefer to avoid extra writing to my SSD. Other than that, I forget them.

As a result, I just need to organise my data in the data partition, but there is nothing special about moving data there, just cut and paste.

 

[kado897]

Thanks for all your advice. I will post back if and when I do it.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Moreover, by placing my files on a separate partition/drive allows me to create whatever folder structure I want. With this in mind, I am not sure what is the problem of "integrating a data partition into the Windows data environment". I think the advice whs is giving referrs to the actual standard folders from the C:\Users\YouUsername.

Personally I don't use those folders at all. I put my files into whatever folder I want on my data partition. The standard user folders created by Windows I keep where they were created, or, in case of a SSD, move them to some separate partition. Thi sis because some programs insist on writing their temporary files into this structure and I prefer to avoid extra writing to my SSD. Other than that, I forget them.

As a result, I just need to organise my data in the data partition, but there is nothing special about moving data there, just cut and paste.

Exactly so.

I have NEVER used the C:\Users structure and have NEVER saved anything on C willfully.

Nor do I use libraries.

All personal data is on D. Windows slings some stuff into subfolders of C:\users of its own accord, but I never have to refer to it or deal with it.

I can drag and drop at will without any concern for properties or permissions.

 

[mjf]

Yes, 4 primaries is the maximum. But that is easy to fix. We'll make C a logical partition. You can do that since you have the 100MB active boot partition. (check in disk management whether that is true).

Then you take the bootable CD of this program and change C: from primary to logical. The control is in the Partition tab > Modify. But you can only do it with the CD of PW because the C partition must be inactive in order to do that.

Now you can create a new Extended partition (best with Disk Management after you shrunk some space off C and then as many logical partitions as you have letters. Just right click on the unallocated space after you shrunk and you will see. Very easy.

I tried that once and ended up with a mess. I know the theory and software well enough but not enough of the details of the OEM:SLP OS authentication. This is where it came unstuck I think.
Given most shop bought PCs (eg. Acer, HP...) have this type of OS make sure everything is backed up and imaged before trying it.

Simplify: I have the 100MB system reserved. Changed C: (Boot/OS partition) from primary to logical using PW. No problems. Booting - big problems.

 

[whs]

Moreover, by placing my files on a separate partition/drive allows me to create whatever folder structure I want. With this in mind, I am not sure what is the problem of "integrating a data partition into the Windows data environment". I think the advice whs is giving referrs to the actual standard folders from the C:\Users\YouUsername.

Personally I don't use those folders at all. I put my files into whatever folder I want on my data partition. The standard user folders created by Windows I keep where they were created, or, in case of a SSD, move them to some separate partition. Thi sis because some programs insist on writing their temporary files into this structure and I prefer to avoid extra writing to my SSD. Other than that, I forget them.

As a result, I just need to organise my data in the data partition, but there is nothing special about moving data there, just cut and paste.

Exactly so.

I have NEVER used the C:\Users structure and have NEVER saved anything on C willfully.

Nor do I use libraries.

All personal data is on D. Windows slings some stuff into subfolders of C:\users of its own accord, but I never have to refer to it or deal with it.

I can drag and drop at will without any concern for properties or permissions.

Hmm, sounds like you prefer to do things the old way. But the Windows7 library and folder structure is much more advanced. Why not take advantage of it. And using drag and drop for moving data is really working without a net. There are better and safer ways to copy/move data. I would not want to go 10 years back.

 

[kado897]

Yes, 4 primaries is the maximum. But that is easy to fix. We'll make C a logical partition. You can do that since you have the 100MB active boot partition. (check in disk management whether that is true).

Then you take the bootable CD of this program and change C: from primary to logical. The control is in the Partition tab > Modify. But you can only do it with the CD of PW because the C partition must be inactive in order to do that.

Now you can create a new Extended partition (best with Disk Management after you shrunk some space off C and then as many logical partitions as you have letters. Just right click on the unallocated space after you shrunk and you will see. Very easy.

I tried that once and ended up with a mess. I know the theory and software well enough but not enough of the details of the OEM:SLP OS authentication. This is where it came unstuck I think.
Given most shop bought PCs (eg. Acer, HP...) have this type of OS make sure everything is backed up and imaged before trying it.

I have an OEM OS (HP). You think I may run into licencing issues?

 

[whs]

Not at all, why should there be a licensing problem. I have done that on 4 different OEM systems without any problem. And I really do not know what mjf is talking about. Maybe he can clarify.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Hmm, sounds like you prefer to do things the old way. But the Windows7 library and folder structure is much more advanced. Why not take advantage of it. And using drag and drop for moving data is really working without a net. There are better and safer ways to copy/move data. I would not want to go 10 years back.

WHS:

The topic has been long since beaten to death and the horsemeat is well tenderized.

I investigated libraries. If I thought they were an advantage, I would have long since used them.

But you knew that.

I am organized. I don't keep my strudel recipes in a file called "cool stuff" in a folder called "Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada".

I've never lost data due to moving/copying technique, dating back over 15 years. Needless to say, I have multiple backups. I don't work without a net.

 

[whs]

Fair enough. Everybody does things that work best for them. I have no problem with that.

 

[kado897]

I think I have just run into a stopper. The maximum shrink space on C is 25MB. There is a bitmap file near the end of the volume.

 

[mjf]

I have an OEM OS (HP). You think I may run into licencing issues?

Simple answer - I don't know.
There clearly isn't any attempt to breach the license in doing this but you may screw up the technical aspects of the OS authentication process.
The retail OS you install authenticates differently to the OEM PC you buy from a shop.

I changed the C: partition from primary to logical and and ended up with an error suggesting some authentication element was missing. Startup repairs were unable to repair the PC.

It was just a nuisance to get the PC up and running again. So I'm just sending a word of caution. If you get it to work - great - I'd be interested to know.

There are at least 2 different OEM OS licenses. Is WHS referring to the preinstalled OS that comes with machines like Acer (mine), HP etc. Or and OEM license he buys and installs? They are different.

 

[whs]

I think I have just run into a stopper. The maximum shrink space on C is 25MB. There is a bitmap file near the end of the volume.

That is no stopper. What has happened is that your MFT (master file table) sits high up in the partition and Disk Management cannot move it. If you use the Partition Wizard that I linked earlier ( Best Free Partition Manager Freeware for Windows 7, Windows Vista, and Windows XP 32 bit & 64 bit. MiniTool Free Partition Manager Software Home Edition. ), you can do it. PW can move the MFT. Use the bootable CD.

And make sure you first take an image before you manipulate the system - just in case.

 

[kado897]

OK. Thanks whs.

 

[whs]

And pay attention to the PW instructions. If I remember right, you specify the amount of space you want to retain for C - not the amount of space you want to shrink like in Disk Management. And whilst you are in there, you might as well convert C to logical - if you have not done that yet.

 

[kado897]

Thanks. This is a big decision on my only PC so I am going to give it a lot of thought before going ahead. I will post back with my decision.

 

[whs]

Kado, if you take an image before you start the work, you can always bail yourself out in case things go sour. This is the most important step.

 

[Bare Foot Kid]

Do only one operation at a time with plenty of system (Windows) restarts between each step, do not try to do a lot of operations all at once and use the bootable CD not the installed version of Partition Wizard.

 

[mjf]

Kado, if you take an image before you start the work, you can always bail yourself out in case things go sour. This is the most important step.

I suggest you image absolutely everything.
The operation is so simple in principle - I'd like to know if you go ahead and it works (ie. logical conversion).