EU to pursue antitrust case, despite Windows 7 E

[Lordbob75]

I have a great solution for the EU.

Just let M$ leave IE as the default.
Why?
Let me put it this way: Anyone who uses IE either likes it, or doesn't know about any other browsers, and anyone who doesn't use it will just go and DL their favourite browser right off the bat anyways. So it's pointless to force it. Just leave it!

~Lordbob

 

[petrossa]

I have a great solution for the EU.

Just let M$ leave IE as the default.
Why?
Let me put it this way: Anyone who uses IE either likes it, or doesn't know about any other browsers, and anyone who doesn't use it will just go and DL their favourite browser right off the bat anyways. So it's pointless to force it. Just leave it!

~Lordbob

Dear Lord, it's not the browser that is at issue, it's the principle of monopolistic behaviour. The browser is just a stick to beat the dog.

 

[Lordbob75]

Dear Lord, it's not the browser that is at issue, it's the principle of monopolistic behaviour. The browser is just a stick to beat the dog.

I know, but I just decided that they way they are doing it is so F***ing ridiculous. They cannot just leave it up to the Manufacturer to decided which version to put in! They will ALL choose to use the one with IE pre-installed to save themselves some work!

~Lordbob

 

[Joan Archer]

Another reason why we should be out of the EU they're getting too big for their boots.

So what if Microsoft have a browser bundled with their OS it's their OS after all, it doesn't mean you have to use it, although you do for Updates but surely that's not too much of an issue.

I do use it though, I tried Firefox but didn't really like it and when I was on my XP machine I used Maxthon, but that is run on the IE engine, I just haven't got around to checking out if that would work on Vista.

 

[petrossa]

I know, but I just decided that they way they are doing it is so F***ing ridiculous. They cannot just leave it up to the Manufacturer to decided which version to put in! They will ALL choose to use the one with IE pre-installed to save themselves some work!

~Lordbob

Obviously. And more as soon as an average user should install (quite unlikely) another browser they'll soon uninstall it as ActiveX and sloppy nonstandard HTML break the nonIE's back.

It's only very recently i can log into my bankaccount using anything else but IE. If that's the first thing you get, not being able the access your accounts, as a uninterested homeuser you're not going to keep that browser on your disk.

But still that doesn't matter to the EU. They just ant MS to toe the line. One way or another. Just until their initiative to switch to opensource is fully implemented. Until that huge operation is done, they will continue to keep MS under tight reign. Luckily for us.

 

[rattelmike]

isn't this all netscapes fault? that browser sucked!!

 

[Lordbob75]

isn't this all netscapes fault? that browser sucked!!

No, this particular one is Opera's fault......

~Lordbob

 

[PhreePhly]

Dear Lord, it's not the browser that is at issue, it's the principle of monopolistic behaviour. The browser is just a stick to beat the dog.

Here's where you and I disagree. I'm not sure the EU could win a case today that MS is a monopoly. They were in 1996, but given the amount of choice that exists today, I think the EU would have a difficult time showing that MS, today is a monopoly.

PhreePhly

 

[petrossa]

Here's where you and I disagree. I'm not sure the EU could win a case today that MS is a monopoly. They were in 1996, but given the amount of choice that exists today, I think the EU would have a difficult time showing that MS, today is a monopoly.

PhreePhly

Your talking about if this were a courtcase. The committee chaired by Ms Kroes has decided that MS was/is abusing it's position as a virtual monopolist. So to all intents and purposes it is.

If your country makes a law stipulating that everybody who uses the nick PhreePhly will punishable, you can shout heys thats not fair all the way to prison.

Ofcourse MS can try to appeal to the EU court, but their last appeal didn't go as they expected. If i were them i'd just try to weasel the best conditions out as i could and spare me the fortune on a lost case in the EU courts. The more they try to wiggle out of it, the deeper the committees teeth will sink in.

There's no way you're going to beat a vast organisation/government which have decided they don't like you.

Just bend over and say thank you, **** happens.

 

[Boris]

In the past all geeks were complaining about MS shoving their standards down every bodies throats. Now the EU tries to change things to more open standards and what happens... Most people here cry murder???

Off course unbundling IE is not enough if MS manages to get IE preinstalled by all OEM manufacturers.

(Remember Intels plans to push AMD out of the market?)

I want competition, I want choice!

 

[Lordbob75]

In the past all geeks were complaining about MS shoving their standards down every bodies throats. Now the EU tries to change things to more open standards and what happens... Most people here cry murder???

Off course unbundling IE is not enough if MS manages to get IE preinstalled by all OEM manufacturers.

(Remember Intels plans to push AMD out of the market?)

I want competition, I want choice!

Thats why I am voting for them to give you the choice when you install the OS. As in pick which browser you would like to install.

~Lordbob

 

[EvStarr]

Sooo. lets say that I just went out to the local big box somewhere in the EU and bought my first computer ever. I get home, I have my internet turned on by the local telco. I am all set to hit the interwebs.... and I can't because my os does not have a browser installed with which I can download a browser.?.
I can't get updates either can I?

seems like a stupid argument to me. they have to bundle something if only for you to dl something else without the use of sneaker net to a neighbor's working comp.

Just a thought.

 

[Boris]

Sooo. lets say that I just went out to the local big box somewhere in the EU and bought my first computer ever. I get home, I have my internet turned on by the local telco. I am all set to hit the interwebs.... and I can't because my os does not have a browser installed with which I can download a browser.?.
I can't get updates either can I?

seems like a stupid argument to me. they have to bundle something if only for you to dl something else without the use of sneaker net to a neighbor's working comp.

Just a thought.

Please read the article linked by the first poster...

 

[dmex]

I think Microsoft would sooner pull out of the EU market than allow competitors products to be advertised/installed by Windows Setup.

If the user is too stupid to uninstall IE and use another browser then they will also be too stupid to realize that the browser they just picked is not from Microsoft and that Microsoft do not support/help users with it.

In two years from now if Opera decides to stop updating/distributing its browser for Windows were will that leave all the users who select it for installation? Microsoft legally cant update Opera's code so it leaves the door open for a Pandora's box of exploits and misuse by that party.

It would be easier just to include a CD containing all the different browsers not just IE8, that way Microsoft doesn't have to distribute a competitors product and keeps a level playing field for all parties.

I think this case is really interesting and possibly will leave the door open for more cases like thins one, I see Coca-Cola being sued by Pepsi and being forced to include Pepsi advertising on CocaCola bottles, I also see Ferrari being sued by Volvo and then being forced to sell them with Volvo engines...

The other interesting thing here is that a few others and I can build a browser right now from code available from Links2/Webkit and other projects, can we have our browsers included with Windows or with the CD too? If we cant then I dont think Opera should be allowed either

 

[sideeffect]

Good on the EU they told Microsoft to bundle 3rd party choices and Microsoft tried to go half way. the solution Microsoft came up with either put the choice in the hands of the OEM's which is still not user choice.

The other option was for the user to download their own browser from a fresh install with no browser to use to find one with. This would have left most people to just getting IE again which is probably flashing up as an important update as soon as Windows Update detects a net connection.

It was IE that stopped updating for a long period at IE6 which caused a lot of people to change browser. Competition from Firefox and Opera has worked to reignite IE but it is right for the EU to enforce fair competition.

 

[garysgold]

The other interesting thing here is that a few others and I can build a browser right now from code available from Links2/Webkit and other projects, can we have our browsers included with Windows or with the CD too? If we cant then I dont think Opera should be allowed either

Hahaaa! A 50 DVD set. :roflmao:

MS should flat out refuse to bundle other browsers with the OS. No IE, no nothing.

 

[PhreePhly]

Good on the EU they told Microsoft to bundle 3rd party choices and Microsoft tried to go half way. the solution Microsoft came up with either put the choice in the hands of the OEM's which is still not user choice.

The other option was for the user to download their own browser from a fresh install with no browser to use to find one with. This would have left most people to just getting IE again which is probably flashing up as an important update as soon as Windows Update detects a net connection.

It was IE that stopped updating for a long period at IE6 which caused a lot of people to change browser. Competition from Firefox and Opera has worked to reignite IE but it is right for the EU to enforce fair competition.

Here's the problem, at what point do you decide which browsers to include? Opera has less than 1% share, why should they be included? If you consider only market share, then logically, that means IE, Firefox and Safari.

Or the other extreme, in order to "stimulate growth" in the market, they can include every browser under the sun, but they had better not forget any, or be threatened with stifling the growth of some obscure browser.

No MS made the logical choice, in order to protect itself from the vindictive nature of the EU Commission and decided to add no browser and let the market decide.

PhreePhly

 

[sideeffect]

Yes you do have a point the more I think about it Microsoft couldn't really do anything else easily but i did have an idea for a less easy fixes.

They could create an interface like in Windows 7 that links to compatible Anti virus software but instead links to a list of compatible Browsers.

I think the EU decision to continue action might be because the Browser issue was not the only problem. They might also be pressing for a removal of other items like Media Center, DVD maker, Media Player etc.

Would be nice if Microsoft did release a Bare bones OS for Europe though with a 3 - 4 GB install size. Would save people using Vlite!

 

[pestbest]

Do you guys realise that EU is doing this cause they believe that Microsoft is taking advantage of it's wide base of Windows Users. It is not doing this just because Opera complained. They are using Opera's complaint to their own advantage. And the EU believes only in it's decisions. Please ask the people using Windows in EU first. Maybe we should have a vote or something. EU is simply being stupid just like Opera is.

 

[petrossa]

No MS made the logical choice, in order to protect itself from the vindictive nature of the EU Commission and decided to add no browser and let the market decide.

PhreePhly

It's hard to get this isn't it?

There is no 'choice'.

In the EU the laws of the EU prevail, not those of USA and certainly not those of a company who has been judged to be anti-competitve. They didn't get fined for being nice guys.

The EU DECIDES what THEY accept as solution. If MS refuses to comply with a direct order from the EU they'll find themselves forking out quite higher fines then the last time.

According to EU laws they have to right to impose up to 10% of a company's profits. They've come off lightely last time around.