Windows 7 x64 - 16 bit games - Dual boot XP

[TanyaC]

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on the best was to handle a need for 16bit apps with Windows 7 x64 and XP.

I'm putting together a system for my elderly parents who currently have a barebones old system running XP. They would like to run Windows 7 and want more than 4gb RAM. Trying to make them a machine that's going to last (as if that's possible).

Problem is they have some 16bit games that they love to play. So I was thinking of running XP within 7 x64.. but that's not going to work with 16bit games is it?

So am I going to have to set up a dual boot?

The system has 2 x 1TB SATA2 drives installed. So I was think I might put Windows 7 x64 on one and Window XP x86 on the other.. Reasonable?

If I do that, can the files (like movies and office stuff), be acccessed [safely] from either operating system or might there be conflicts or problems?

I would create a partition on each drive for the OS and a partition for all of the other stuff so two partitions per drive..

Would appreciate your thoughts

thanks
Tanya

 

[DeaconFrost]

Sounds like a perfect example of what XP Mode was designed for. I avoid multi-boot systems like the plague....especially for people who aren't going to want to deal with any issues that arise from them. Simplify and virtualize. Even if XP Mode isn't an option, you'd be surprised how easy it is for non-tech people to use a VM once configured properly.

 

[MacGyvr]

Unfortunately, I've never seen any game run well in a virtual machine.

 

[TanyaC]

Unfortunately, I've never seen any game run well in a virtual machine.

And if Windows 7 is 64 bit will the 16 bit games run at all, even in XP mode?

 

[DeaconFrost]

Unfortunately, I've never seen any game run well in a virtual machine.

If they are old enough to have 16 bit installers, they'll run in a VM just fine. VirtualBox (I believe) and VMware even offer Direct3D support.

And if Windows 7 is 64 bit will the 16 bit games run at all, even in XP mode?

They won't install on the host system, but they will run in a VM, such as XP Mode.

 

[TanyaC]

Unfortunately, I've never seen any game run well in a virtual machine.

If they are old enough to have 16 bit installers, they'll run in a VM just fine. VirtualBox (I believe) and VMware even offer Direct3D support.

And if Windows 7 is 64 bit will the 16 bit games run at all, even in XP mode?

They won't install on the host system, but they will run in a VM, such as XP Mode.

So what's the direction we're going here guys. Are you advocating running XP mode under Windows 7 x64 or purchasing VMWare?

I guess no one seems to be advicating the dual boot scenario?

The original question was whether to install XP and 7 in a dual boot scenario or to run XP mode under Win7.

Thanks
Tanya

 

[lehnerus2000]

DOSBox?

Have you used DOSBox before?
DOSBox, an x86 emulator with DOS

I've had good results playing 90s games using it.
It can be tricky to setup, but the last version I used had pre-built config files (for quite a few games).

 

[cyclic]

You don't purchase, VMware player is free.

 

[Outlander]

Dos Box works perfectly with Doom 2 and Duke Nukem 3D on my W7 x64. It's free!

 

[theog]

If you want more than 4gb of ram, Win XP x64 is needed.
Go for XP mode.

 

[Shadowjk]

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on the best was to handle a need for 16bit apps with Windows 7 x64 and XP.

I'm putting together a system for my elderly parents who currently have a barebones old system running XP. They would like to run Windows 7 and want more than 4gb RAM. Trying to make them a machine that's going to last (as if that's possible).

Problem is they have some 16bit games that they love to play. So I was thinking of running XP within 7 x64.. but that's not going to work with 16bit games is it?

So am I going to have to set up a dual boot?

The system has 2 x 1TB SATA2 drives installed. So I was think I might put Windows 7 x64 on one and Window XP x86 on the other.. Reasonable?

If I do that, can the files (like movies and office stuff), be acccessed [safely] from either operating system or might there be conflicts or problems?

I would create a partition on each drive for the OS and a partition for all of the other stuff so two partitions per drive..

Would appreciate your thoughts

thanks
Tanya

If you are going to go down the Windows XP Mode route then make sure the CPU Supports Hardware Virtualization and It is greater than 3.0Ghz

   Note

Hardware Virtualization is not needed to run XP Mode however it Helps increase stability and speed

Hope This helps,
Josh

 

[Mirriam]

I have been fighting with this for some time now and I can tell you what I have found so far, its not a pretty picture. As others have said running XP in a virtual machine is not going to help you. XP Mode running under Win7 is not going to support anything even approaching high end graphics..the performance just isn't there, it appears to me at least to just be a method of running older non-game software under Win7 so people don't have to buy newer updated versions of software they already own. VmWare is better but installing it is not going to be any easier than just dual booting XP and as you plan on partitioning your drives anyway, you may as well set your system up as a dual boot. Problem no one has mentioned is XP does not have drivers for SATA drives. Therefore you are going to have to find and install SATA drivers during the install of XP or it won't even see your HD's. I would suggest as you are building the system yourself, installing a floppy, it will make installing the drivers easier, otherwise you have to create a custom XP installation disc with the drivers on it, which is more complicated than it sounds. In my case I just bought a used older computer that doesn't have SATA drives and already had XP on it to begin with, but what you want is possible its just a little harder than you might have thought. Also if you decide to go with a dual-boot system, install XP first, it will save you some additional problems with XP overwriting Win7 boot files if you install Win7 first.

 

[Shadowjk]

I have been fighting with this for some time now and I can tell you what I have found so far, its not a pretty picture. As others have said running XP in a virtual machine is not going to help you. XP Mode running under Win7 is not going to support anything even approaching high end graphics..the performance just isn't there, it appears to me at least to just be a method of running older non-game software under Win7 so people don't have to buy newer updated versions of software they already own. VmWare is better but installing it is not going to be any easier than just dual booting XP and as you plan on partitioning your drives anyway, you may as well set your system up as a dual boot. Problem no one has mentioned is XP does not have drivers for SATA drives. Therefore you are going to have to find and install SATA drivers during the install of XP or it won't even see your HD's. I would suggest as you are building the system yourself, installing a floppy, it will make installing the drivers easier, otherwise you have to create a custom XP installation disc with the drivers on it, which is more complicated than it sounds. In my case I just bought a used older computer that doesn't have SATA drives and already had XP on it to begin with, but what you want is possible its just a little harder than you might have thought. Also if you decide to go with a dual-boot system, install XP first, it will save you some additional problems with XP overwriting Win7 boot files if you install Win7 first.

SATA Drives may work with XP If not try to Disbale the Native SATA In your BIOS

Josh

 

[TanyaC]

Have you used DOSBox before?
DOSBox, an x86 emulator with DOS

I've had good results playing 90s games using it.
It can be tricky to setup, but the last version I used had pre-built config files (for quite a few games).

Ah yes, gold old DOsBox. Yes, I've played with it a little before. I wonder if parents approaching their 80's though could cope with it?

Perhaps I will give it a try.

thanks for the suggestion

 

[TanyaC]

You don't purchase, VMware player is free.

Sorry. My bad.

I've downloaded the player. Will have a tinker.

 

[TanyaC]

If you are going to go down the Windows XP Mode route then make sure the CPU Supports Hardware Virtualization and It is greater than 3.0Ghz

   Note

Hardware Virtualization is not needed to run XP Mode however it Helps increase stability and speed

Hope This helps,
Josh

Yeah. i5-2500 3.3ghz, 8gb RAM, Asus P8P67 mobo.

 

[TanyaC]

Problem no one has mentioned is XP does not have drivers for SATA drives. Therefore you are going to have to find and install SATA drivers during the install of XP or it won't even see your HD's.

SATA Drives may work with XP If not try to Disbale the Native SATA In your BIOS

Josh

This is interesting to me. I have WIndows XP x86 running as my home network server. There are NO IDE devices installed in that machine at all. It has 5 x 2TB SATA2 drives, plus a LG Blu-ray reader/CD/DVD Writer SATA2.

I have not set SATA to legacy mode. I'll see if I can grab a screen pic of my BIOS settings. They are pretty much default in this area. I haven't changed anything.

 

[TanyaC]

If you want more than 4gb of ram, Win XP x64 is needed.
Go for XP mode.

Well, thank you all for your responses. I think we have a good discussion going on this subject. There seems to be good points about each of the different solutions.

My parents are elderly and I think I'm going to have to be guided by that rather than anything else. I'm not sure they could cope with things like DosBox and VMWare. Also, I'm running short on time to play around and iron out the bugs.

At this point in time I think I will go the dual boot route and since I have a test system here I can play around at my pace and see if I can dumb it down for them (no disrespect intended). It's only a days work to backup and reconfigure the system if other mechanisms will work.

again, thanks for your responses.

tanya

 

[gregrocker]

Try installing the older games in Win7 Compatibility Mode

Next try free Virtual Box, Virtual Player and VMWare to see how performance pans out.

If forced to Dual Boot, unplug Win7 when installing XP while setting XP HD as first to boot in BIOS setup.

After install plug back in Win7 HD, set preferred HD as first to boot in BIOS setup, boot other HD using one-time BIOS Boot Menu key. This keeps the HD's independent to come and go as you please, whereas configuring a Windows Dual Boot interlocks them.

If the HD is not seen during XP install, you may need to insert the XP SATA controller driver: SATA Drivers - Slipstream into Windows XP CD

 

[lehnerus2000]

You'd need to do the "heavy lifting"

Have you used DOSBox before?
DOSBox, an x86 emulator with DOS

I've had good results playing 90s games using it.
It can be tricky to setup, but the last version I used had pre-built config files (for quite a few games).

Ah yes, gold old DOsBox. Yes, I've played with it a little before. I wonder if parents approaching their 80's though could cope with it?

Perhaps I will give it a try.

thanks for the suggestion

You would probably need to set it up for them (i.e. create the config files for any games they wanted to play).
You could then make a batch file, script or shortcut to start the game, which means they wouldn't have to tinker with the config files.

I seem to recall that the last time I used it, all I did was:

1. Modified and named a config file for each game.
2. Placed it in the appropriate AppData folder.
3. Created a batch file to start DOSBox with the config file.
4. Created a shortcut to call the batch file.
5. Placed the shortcut in my Start Menu.