Why Moore's Law, not mobility, is killing the PC

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Lots of things I would have had a desktop for I can now use a phone -- I stream all video - Audio now to the TV via the phone and NAS -- for example you can get programs like VLC commander (Free) for your phone to stream the video to the TV.

E-Mail I use less and less now --e-mail IMO has passed its point of usefulness -- too many pointless emails and Spams -- there's better methods these days for communication.

How many times do you see people at work these days spending often up to 1 or 2 hours a day just reading usually pointless "circular" type of e-mails -- you know those emails that have cc: and then a whole load of names. --They know where I work that I won't even LOOK at any email if the cc: has more than TWO people on it -- if an email is CC'd then it obviously isn't important.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

That's the problem often seen with any new substitute elements when it hasn't been in wide use for some time to notice just what the effects will be. Decades back I worked with stuff that contained lead as well as other toxins while in production type manufacturing to then find out just what from hair analysis I was being exposed to. It would send a chill up the ole spine! Arsenic, cadmium, lead were just a few!

Yep you and me alike Night Hawk years ago when I started working with my Dad we used lead piping in houses with soldered joints and poured molten lead in cast iron drain pipes that you see running down the outside of buildings. We called then soil pipes I don't know about anywhere else.
We also used lead flashing around the holes in the roof that chimneys and the holes where those soil pipes went through the roof. Spent many an hour melting lead for the joints, soldering, "lead beating" sheets into the shapes to fit around chimneys and mixing red lead powder into putty for glazing windows and such stuff.
Then of course we used lead based paint for our clinker built wooden boats so take that along with mixing asbestos powder into a thick pour in paste for insulation in ceilings and also around pipes we exposed ourselves to some very(now) scary things eh?

Mind you I often wonder how much of the heavy stuff we were exposed to and we took on board is still there because our actual body age is only ten years because of the "refurbishment' of our bodies that is a constant ongoing process - well thats unless you botox to the hilt of course :roflmao:

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Hi there
Lots of things I would have had a desktop for I can now use a phone -- I stream all video - Audio now to the TV via the phone and NAS -- for example you can get programs like VLC commander (Free) for your phone to stream the video to the TV.

E-Mail I use less and less now --e-mail IMO has passed its point of usefulness -- too many pointless emails and Spams -- there's better methods these days for communication.

How many times do you see people at work these days spending often up to 1 or 2 hours a day just reading usually pointless "circular" type of e-mails -- you know those emails that have cc: and then a whole load of names. --They know where I work that I won't even LOOK at any email if the cc: has more than TWO people on it -- if an email is CC'd then it obviously isn't important.

What do you you mean you actually talk to people for a change Jimbo? LOL!!

Mate I cannot get away from it at work in a government department the email is all - no being sarcy but I have to admit it is good for the saving of evidence that one has done something or has actually requested something be done.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Lots of things I would have had a desktop for I can now use a phone -- I stream all video - Audio now to the TV via the phone and NAS -- for example you can get programs like VLC commander (Free) for your phone to stream the video to the TV.

E-Mail I use less and less now --e-mail IMO has passed its point of usefulness -- too many pointless emails and Spams -- there's better methods these days for communication.

How many times do you see people at work these days spending often up to 1 or 2 hours a day just reading usually pointless "circular" type of e-mails -- you know those emails that have cc: and then a whole load of names. --They know where I work that I won't even LOOK at any email if the cc: has more than TWO people on it -- if an email is CC'd then it obviously isn't important.

What do you you mean you actually talk to people for a change Jimbo? LOL!!

Mate I cannot get away from it at work in a government department the email is all - no being sarcy but I have to admit it is good for the saving of evidence that one has done something or has actually requested something be done.

Hi there
things like ms LYNC are good - you actually get to SEE and TALK to people you want to in the business

email is actually a diminishing useful tool these days for businesses -- unless it's really carefully and sensibly used.

If I have something really urgent that needs to be done then I use an old fashioned FAX -- this still has the evidence you might need as per email but the fax gets directed right to the person concerned and often people are so surprised that the fax machine even works any more that it gets picked up straight away.

I'll almost bet in a few years email will really drop down business users requirements just as the use of texting is being replaced by social media like facebook etc. The only basic use I can see for email these days is just to send documents or attachments. Even purchases on the Internet don't need email and even when say I buy a ticket for Eurostar (International Train service between London and Paris / Brussels via channel tunnel) I just use the Square image on the electronic ticket which is on my phone and hold it to the scanner at the station.

At home I might receive 70 - 100 emails a day minimum -- I delete probably about 98% of these without even OPENING them and read probably about 2.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Layback Bear]

Well I like email. It doesn't make any ringing noises. I don't have to look at it for 5 to 7 days or maybe longer.
I don't have to answer any of them. I can block the senders of the emails; I like that a lot. I got it down to about 3 to 10 emails a month received.
My bank, ISP, and Crackle sends me one once a month and the other 6 or 7 are junk that slipped through. Maybe 8 or 10 times a year I will get one from a friend.
I like email.

 

[strollin]

FAX vs email? I'll take email over FAX any day. With email, I can request a notification be returned when someone opens it, with FAX you have no idea if it actually got to the person it was sent to. We have FAX machines at my office and the FAXes just sit in the machine, nobody is there to pick up the FAX and give it to the recipient.

The only way I want to receive a FAX is today is via email.

I've sent more emails this morning (been at work an hour) then I've sent FAXes in the last year. If any technology is ready to be dumped, IMO, it's FAX.

 

[jimbo45]

FAX vs email? I'll take email over FAX any day. With email, I can request a notification be returned when someone opens it, with FAX you have no idea if it actually got to the person it was sent to. We have FAX machines at my office and the FAXes just sit in the machine, nobody is there to pick up the FAX and give it to the recipient.

The only way I want to receive a FAX is today is via email.

I've sent more emails this morning (been at work an hour) then I've sent FAXes in the last year. If any technology is ready to be dumped, IMO, it's FAX.

Hi there
it's amazing how people seem to MIS-UNDERSTAND some posts -- sending faxes is easy by email - you don't think I actually meant go to a fax machine and actually scan and send did you.

What I meant was that at the other end a FAX could be picked up since it's so rare and the sort of businesses I'm dealing with you don't have a whole slew of people in an open plan office with a "Public fax" machine.

Email recipients can be just as irritating on their computers (or phones) by having sounds active whenever an email arrives -- in fact phones can be worse since users of these seem to forget ANY respect for other people when using these in public -- there's nothing worse than being near to someone in an open plan office who is forever texting or emailing and keeping the keyboard (whether physical or on screen one) sound clacking for each keystroke and having a ring for the arrival every 5 secs or so of a message --and they sort of look at you aggressively if you ask them politely to mute the ring and turn the sound off -- mind you I'm quite large so they usually comply -- consultants seem to be the worst at this --they seem totally oblivious to anybody else on the planet once they start their daily marathon session with their phones.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

FAX vs email? I'll take email over FAX any day. With email, I can request a notification be returned when someone opens it, with FAX you have no idea if it actually got to the person it was sent to. We have FAX machines at my office and the FAXes just sit in the machine, nobody is there to pick up the FAX and give it to the recipient.

The only way I want to receive a FAX is today is via email.

I've sent more emails this morning (been at work an hour) then I've sent FAXes in the last year. If any technology is ready to be dumped, IMO, it's FAX.

I totally agree with about losing FAX. Business, especially doctors' and lawyers' offices, maintain FAX is more secure than email. I maintain, horsefeathers! Transmissions via email can be via encrypted attachments. Even better, just email that a document is available for download from a secure site (the way my credit union does with monthly statements, for example).

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Well I like email. It doesn't make any ringing noises. I don't have to look at it for 5 to 7 days or maybe longer.
I don't have to answer any of them. I can block the senders of the emails; I like that a lot. I got it down to about 3 to 10 emails a month received.
My bank, ISP, and Crackle sends me one once a month and the other 6 or 7 are junk that slipped through. Maybe 8 or 10 times a year I will get one from a friend.
I like email.

I'm with you, man. Email doesn't interrupt me or demand my immediate attention like a phone ring does. I've yet to have an email wake me up. I can read my email when it is convenient for me. My friends know I prefer emails over phone calls. I've come close to yanking my land line because of phone spammers—politicians as well as telemarketers—and I'm not far from doing it anyway. In fact, I shut off the ringers and answering machine on my landline phones for the three months prior to the last major election. I don't give my phone number out to anyone but close friends (and some business with warnings of dire consequences if the give out or sell my number). Business that just think they have to have number to ship me something or to get a discount get a 555 bogus number that will lead to directory assistance. As a result, I've got the phone spam to one or two calls a month now.

I had my email spam down to a dozen a day until a friend and neighbor had her computer hacked recently and the number quadrupled. That number has been gradually going down. Despite all its faults, Yahoo mail has come up with a surprisingly good spam filter. It rarely tags any legitimate email (and won't do it again once I tell it the email is ok) and has yet to miss any spam. I just glance at the spam folder once or twice a day to make sure nothing valid got snared, then dump the whole lot in one fell swoop. I'm as stingy with my email addy as I am with my phone number. I don't do surveys or contests online. My friends know not to give my email address out.

I have a cell phone but it only makes and takes phone calls (texting is too combersome). I got it primarily for emergencies. It stays in my purse or pocket turned off until I actually need it. I neither need nor want tot be connected to an electronic umbilical cord 24/7 (same for my home phone; I answer it only when it's convenient otherwise the call can go to the machine).

Email also doesn't cost me anything other than the price of an internet connection which I'm going to have anyway. Even with occasional attachments (I open attachments only from trusted sources after i scan them), the bandwidth of the emails I get in a month is neglegible.

 

[SIW2]

But that was the case last and the year before - and possibly the year before that, wasn't it ?

pc's were selling pretty well then, weren't they?

Why is it suddenly responsible for poor 8 sales?

Great article - thanks for posting it.

The only reason I purchased a new machine last year was becasue my previous machine died. It ran software fine and I could probably upgraded to Win7. Otherwise I was happy with a AMD Athlon 64 X2 TK-57 / 1.9 GHz dual core and 4 GB of memory.

But, it bit the dust - bad MOBO.

I think you should be able to get 7 to 10 years out of a machine. Businesses run on a 3 to 5 year purchase schedule.

 

[Night Hawk]

Have a few old XP builds here now hitting the 10yr. mark showing a lot depends on how well a system is treated and maintained. If you beat them up and oc them constantly the hardwares are stressed for the obvious. If you never keep an eye on temps simmer away goes the pc one day.(sooner that is!)

As for email there's a vast difference between junk mail and useless chatter and things like requests sent to a tech support dept. or notification even invoice for something purchased online when compared to voice chat by one of the messenger services or some social networking. Texting is the instant messaging you see on a phone for spontanious chatter when comparing that to emails.

BUT! Texts disappear much faster in order to make room for more! At least on a messenging service like Skype now being used to replace WLMessenger you can have a history as well as saving incoming emails into folders you create for each type if not for each contact or set of contacts.

The largest annoyance with any email client despite what you can do is spam and just plain junk mail coming in. Unfortunately the cure for spam and junk mail isn't what most would prefer namely doing without any email inbox! "Gee how will cousin Roy get ahold of me next summer?"

A simple thought on how much email can be involved in your personal life as well as for any work situation. Is your cousin planning a wedding? Things like that are one reason email addresses won't be dead any time soon!

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Hum sounds a bit like my collection - almost museum pieces now and I just really like playing on them when I get chance.

Emails well I am lucky my AV sorts it out for the best apart and most are from SF and relatives and good mates. I don't necessarily think it is important to see someone when you are communication but would do for us all top be the same eh?
For the most part I use email more than the phone its cheaper and more entertaining than listen to someone that prattles on for hours on end. Maybe I am a recluse of some sort?

The work email I guess is a different ball game as I said a while ago full of crap and being government usually in triplicate.

 

[Layback Bear]

The problem with Windows 8 for PC's is simple. Windows 8 has a lot of good things built into it that Microsoft decided to cover up with a bunch of junk.

Windows 8 sales are down because Windows 8 doesn't meet the need and desires of the masses.

You got people trying out Windows 8 to see if they like it and you got people trying to get out of Windows 8 and back to Windows 7. Then you got the poor souls that buy a PC or Laptop that comes with Windows 8 because they don't know any better. Microsoft is depending on the poor souls that don't know any better. Sales indicate the poor souls that don't know any better aren't buying enough.

Windows 8 on a Mphone or Mpad or what ever they will call them just might meet the needs of the users of such products. Now Microsoft needs to make a system that will do the same (meet the needs) for 2 billion that also use PC's and Laptops.
Give us 2 billion loyal customers a choice other than take it or leave it. We will leave it and stay with Windows 7 on our PC's and Laptops.

 

[mjf]

Most people everywhere, except the relatively small number of enthusiasts, buy from the big OEMs (HP, ACER.....) and are stuck with Windows 8 and MS know it. Even if Windows 8 was the best thing out since sliced bread most existing owners would probably just stick with Windows 7 because it's not bad. The hardware is also generally junk IMO but like the theme of the discussion it probably meets the "needs" of many.

 

[Slartybart]

You're right, sales were probably the same. I'm not sure about "selling pretty well then" though... the economy has had a drag on all sales. I get your point though.

It would be interesting to see how a new Windows affects PC sales. Was there a "slump" when Win7, XP, 98, 95... were released? Did business wait an additional year or more before encuring the cost of re-training?

The difference with Win8 might be that it is a big difference from preceeding Windows... a new paradigm, a shift from the past. The advantages in the OS aren't enough to offset the cost of training. Wait unitl old codgers like me die off - those who remember the unfilled promises (outside of Scientific communities) of previous centralized computing models. Either technology has advanced far enough to fully support that model or the market will return once again to distributed computing.

As an acedemic exercize, it would be worth noting the sales after each release. There was an obvious need for previous versions that doesn't seem to be appearant in Win8. There's no "we can't use the OS without XYZ". Much of the improvements in the past were tied to hardware, many improved meory alocation and utuilization, and many other changes were cosmetic or for usability (user friendly / intuative).

XP was the most secure, except it was full of security holes. Vista tightened down those security holes but made the OS hard to use and maintain. Win7 balanced the two - Win8 definitely provides a perfomance boost, but as the thread alludes.... is it necessary?

Anyway.... XP will fall off the support list, Vista never quite made it big time, Win7 will live for a long time. Win8 will have to make changes and will evenutally be adopted by business, where folks will learn it and then they will adopt it at home. This is a major transition - going from what is known to where MS thinks the next market will be.

But that was the case last and the year before - and possibly the year before that, wasn't it ?

pc's were selling pretty well then, weren't they?

Why is it suddenly responsible for poor 8 sales?

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Bill I ma just curious to what you mean by performance boost with Win 8? as all this leaves me wondering what are we actually aiming at?

Perhaps some machine that knows when we want to switch it on - I mean that is being extreme but you get my drift cos my 7 is as fast as I would want a machine to be unless you mean the sheer breadth of what it can do??

Dunno perhaps I am getting a bit silly(er) in my old age.

 

[Night Hawk]

"XP was the most secure, except it was full of security holes." Was? 2000 saw far less malware and was a bit more stable then the buggy OS XP proved to be prior to SP3. At the end of Februrary someone summed up XP and even what people thought was so secure for a browser when casting hard looks at IE, FireFox got a tasteful as well. Windows XP and Firefox take 25-year lead in security flaws

Besides XP itself the av programs in years past were also another problem of not being able to detect malwares effectively as well as lacking in web filtering options which can curtail malwares to the greatest extent except for when users interact with a boggy found at some site that looks and deceives.

Vista and 7 actually brought in security improvement as well as one other thing XP sadly lacked. Crash Control! When an app freezes in XP it's hard boot time! "BSOD Special served daily!"

 

[Slartybart]

Yeah, I should have said "perceived" and qualified SP3. Regardless of my ommisions and your clarification, I think we're in agreement.

"XP was the most secure, except it was full of security holes." Was? 2000 saw far less malware and was a bit more stable then the buggy OS XP proved to be prior to SP3. At the end of Februrary someone summed up XP and even what people thought was so secure for a browser when casting hard looks at IE, FireFox got a tasteful as well. Windows XP and Firefox take 25-year lead in security flaws

... Vista and 7 actually brought in security improvement as well as one other thing XP sadly lacked. Crash Control! When an app freezes in XP it's hard boot time! "BSOD Special served daily!"

 

[Night Hawk]

The bulk of actual problems seen with the older version there and why many opted to use FF over IE was 6.0 was a frightmare full of holes to begin with and exploited heavily by malware writers. You know I was glad when IE 7 first arrived and then jumped on Vista only seeing XP become a secondary OS right off the bat for security and stability reasons.

MS finally and I mean "finally" got around to fixing all those bugs that needed fixing for a long time right when 7 was first being brought in?! SP3 contains over 1,000 fixes but simply too little too late! Yet it was during those years while XP was the main Windows that you also saw a vast progression of hardwares. faster cpus, better video and sound cards, larger faster hard drives, and even better boards at times! (some brands started going downhill faster however)

The one misgivings that people thought when looking back on the browser wars is that people always thought FF was the most secure until it got popular! Even with the other OSs you would be surprised to learn they are not so invulnerable to malwares either as people would like to think. The bug makers like to target what becomes popular the most and somehow still haven't been laid off or fired yet!