Market Share March 2018

[Brds7t7]

That's not what I meant. What I meant was that during the pre-Windows 10 era, there were no forced updates. The Windows 10 era is a whole new world - it's different than what people have always known with regard to Microsoft's way of doing things.

True, but then again if you've been forced to do a whole upgrade from say 7->10 (which a lot of people were), then you'd come to expect upgrades between Windows 10 versions, at least I would anyway. Like I said, I'm surprised MS hasn't been doing this from day one of the Windows 10 release, as I thought they would do it before now - maybe that's just my cynical side though.

 

[lehnerus2000]

How well does Windows 10 work when you install and run it in a VM? I'm sure it can't get beyond the bounds of the VM to do any mischief in the host OS. Has that been your experience?

W10 runs quite well on in VMware on my Linux Mint 18.3 Host.

Windows Update is the only source of problems I've noticed.
If it's not updating, it works smoothly and like most of my VMs it seem to run like it was on hardware (apart from boot time).

Windows is too stupid to affect Linux, but it might be able to break a real HDD partition if one is attached (e.g. screw up the file table).

And will it continue to run without any problem if you totally disconnect it from the internet?

I haven't noticed any issues in the past.
However I wouldn't be surprised to discover that W10 has a self-destruct timer.

True, but then again if you've been forced to do a whole upgrade from say 7->10 (which a lot of people were), then you'd come to expect upgrades between Windows 10 versions, at least I would anyway. Like I said, I'm surprised MS hasn't been doing this from day one of the Windows 10 release, as I thought they would do it before now - maybe that's just my cynical side though.

MS provided Settings to delay updates/upgrades and then sent out updates to bypass those MS approved tools.

At some point, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity", ceases to be a valid excuse.

 

[Barman58]

Of course the automatic update and upgrade policy only applies to the home version. This whole usage demographic is based around the buy a computer like you buy a tv level of user.

It makes sense for the home user to have their system automatically update or upgrade. Most of this market are most likely to be still running the free month of antivirus they were gifted with several years ago when they bought the system.

The "forced" update system can mean that the system is not part of a botnet, trying to infect the pro and enthusiast users of are of course running the pro OS which has far better control of updates and upgrades.

There are some users that I would class as enthusiasts, who run the home version, almost exclusively those who bought a system and then became addicted like the rest of us, but their OS would only upgrade to Windows 10 Home from their original win 7 Home premium.

The pros who have always made a living updating, repairing and upgrading home user systems may actually end up as losers as the systems need less input to keep running. Of course most home users are capable of breaking anything so we may be lucky

 

[mrjimphelps]

True, but then again if you've been forced to do a whole upgrade from say 7->10 (which a lot of people were), then you'd come to expect upgrades between Windows 10 versions, at least I would anyway. Like I said, I'm surprised MS hasn't been doing this from day one of the Windows 10 release, as I thought they would do it before now - maybe that's just my cynical side though.

Actually, if I had been forced to do an upgrade from 7 to 10 (my father-in-law was, and it bricked his computer), I wouldn't be "expecting upgrades"; I would be really angry at Microsoft for doing that to me.

Knowing that a lot of people were getting Windows 10 forced upon them, I didn't want that happening to me, so I installed GWX Control Panel on all of my home computers, as well as on my father-in-law's computer. I was able to fend off the forced upgrade; but he wasn't so lucky. He got "upgraded" in spite of telling Microsoft that he didn't want it (the presence of GWX Control Panel on his computer was a big "no thank you" to Microsoft, in my opinion; in other words, they knowingly pushed the upgrade to his computer, knowing that he didn't want it).

 

[Brds7t7]

MS provided Settings to delay updates/upgrades and then sent out updates to bypass those MS approved tools.

It's been a few months since I've tinkered with a 10 vm, as I've had no real desire to try it out again. So, are Pro users also not able to delay the updates now too?

 

[mrjimphelps]

It makes sense for the home user to have their system automatically update or upgrade. Most of this market are most likely to be still running the free month of antivirus they were gifted with several years ago when they bought the system.

I agree with you, if you are talking about security updates. But not if you are talking about a whole new OS. Very few if any consumers envisioned that when they bought their Windows 7 computers, especially if they had no control over the process (i.e. they couldn't turn off the automatic, forced update).

The way Microsoft should have handled it was as follows: When it's time to upgrade a computer from 7 (or 8.1) to 10, a screen should have popped up, explaining in simple and clear terms what an upgrade from 7 to 10 would entail. Then give the user a few choices:
1. Upgrade me right now.
2. Upgrade me later.
3. Do not upgrade me.

If Microsoft would have done it that way, and then faithfully honored the choice that the user made, there wouldn't have been any complaints about the upgrade from 7 to 10. In fact, Microsoft probably would have gotten a lot of accolades for respecting the customer's wishes. Instead, they forced the whole issue, making it very difficult to avoid the upgrade.

 

[Brds7t7]

Actually, if I had been forced to do an upgrade from 7 to 10 (my father-in-law was, and it bricked his computer), I wouldn't be "expecting upgrades"; I would be really angry at Microsoft for doing that to me.

Believe me, I'd be angry too. In no way am I defending what MS has done. I'm just saying that I've come to expect it now.
Actually a lot of MS decisions (especially with consumer products) have annoyed me lately. This is why I'm slowly ditching their products.
Office is the next thing to go from my systems. I've more or less replaced it with LibreOffice now anyway.

The way things are right now, I have no intention of using Windows after 8.1's EOL.

 

[Brds7t7]

The way Microsoft should have handled it was as follows: When it's time to upgrade a computer from 7 (or 8.1) to 10, a screen should have popped up, explaining in simple and clear terms what an upgrade from 7 to 10 would entail. Then give the user a few choices:
1. Upgrade me right now.
2. Upgrade me later.
3. Do not upgrade me.

If Microsoft would have done it that way, and then faithfully honored the choice that the user made, there wouldn't have been any complaints about the upgrade from 7 to 10. In fact, Microsoft probably would have gotten a lot of accolades for respecting the customer's wishes. Instead, they forced the whole issue, making it very difficult to avoid the upgrade.

Spot on! ^^

 

[mrjimphelps]

Believe me, I'd be angry too. In no way am I defending what MS has done. I'm just saying that I've come to expect it now.
Actually a lot of MS decisions (especially with consumer products) have annoyed me lately. This is why I'm slowly ditching their products.
Office is the next thing to go from my systems. I've more or less replaced it with LibreOffice now anyway.

The way things are right now, I have no intention of using Windows after 8.1's EOL.

Well, you've got five more years of support for Windows 8.1. I have been recommending that people who want to keep using Windows 7 switch to Windows 8.1 and install Classic Shell, so that they can have the Windows 7 experience with an additional three years of support from Microsoft. This is literally the last gasp of the "old" Microsoft.

I've already ditched Microsoft. I've switched to Linux Mint on my home computer; and most of what I need is available in Linux. But for those few things I am unable to do in Linux, I have a Windows 8.1 VM. Windows is just a click away if I need it. Then when I am done, I turn it off, and it's back to the truly wonderful world of Linux Mint.

 

[Brds7t7]

I have been recommending that people who want to keep using Windows 7 switch to Windows 8.1 and install Classic Shell

Completely agree. I have a few 8.1 systems and VMs. 8.1 gets a lot of stick, but I actually think it's a decent OS. I've always found it to run my software great. It does have its little annoyances (I still have no idea why they removed the option to restore Shadow Copies from the UI grrr!), but it's easy to tweak and get around those annoyances. Classic Shell is one of the first things I put on it.

 

[mrjimphelps]

I have an 8.1 VM with Classic Shell. Most of the time, I truly cannot tell that it is 8.1 (as opposed to 7), except that the Start button is a seashell rather than the standard Windows 7 icon.

 

[Painter]

So much for the discussion on market share. That's OK, this OT is an interesting discussion. The update in question is an obvious breach of trust, but maybe all those W10 users have Stockholm syndrome by now. I too survived GWX in 2015/16 and as a W7 user, I sure hope nothing like that is being planned for 2020. I am not expecting it, but from what has happened over the last 2 years and especially this week, I am keeping a wary eye on this buzzard in the trees.

 

[ElectricSun]

You're telling me Windows 10 home doesn't have forced updates? It's had them from day one!

Pro version also has them, those users just have a little more control as to when they're installed. You can delay an update, you can't just refuse it unlike Windows 7 & 8.1.

well i'm reeally glad i never went to 10. i saw the upgrade message on windows 7 taskbar a lot on the desktop i used to have... ignored it every time with a smirk! ha!

 

[lehnerus2000]

Telemetry Level

It's been a few months since I've tinkered with a 10 vm, as I've had no real desire to try it out again. So, are Pro users also not able to delay the updates now too?

The issue is somehow related to the Telemetry level that has been set in W10.

The reports indicate that Microsoft ignores user update settings and even installs the update on devices on which Windows Update is turned off.

If Windows Update is turned off, Microsoft uses the Update Assistant to deliver the update.

Woody suggests that the forced upgrades have something to do with the Diagnostic Data level setting of the system. Microsoft collects Telemetry on all consumer versions of Windows 10.

Tip: The next version of Windows 10, version 1803, includes options to view the Telemetry data.

If it is set to 0 (Security), an Enterprise-only value, update policies have no effect. This is confirmed on the Microsoft Docs website for Windows Update for Business clients.

For Windows Update for Business policies to be honored, the Diagnostic Data level of the device must be set to 1 (Basic) or higher. If it is set to 0 (Security), Windows Update for Business policies will have no effect.
​

Windows 10 users should check the Telemetry level in the Windows Registry if they are unsure what it is set to:

1. Tap on the Windows-key, type regedit.exe, and hit the Enter-key. This opens the Windows Registry Editor.
2. Go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DataCollection
3. Check the AllowTelemetry value. If Data is set to 0, the Diagnostic Data level is set to Security.

https://www.ghacks.net/2018/03/08/r...ion-1709-upgrades-that-bypass-windows-update/

Additional
MS has fixed/released an update which apparently fixes the issue for those who haven't already been affected.

Important
Microsoft is aware that this notification was incorrectly delivered to some Windows 10 Version 1703 devices that had a user-defined feature update deferral period configured. Microsoft mitigated this issue on March 8, 2018.
​

Users who were affected by this issue and who upgraded to Windows 10 Version 1709 can revert to an earlier version within 10 days of the upgrade. To do this, open Settings > Update & Security > Recovery, and then select Get started under Go back to the previous version of windows 10.
​

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...10-display-a-notification-to-install-the-late

 

[Brds7t7]

MS has fixed/released an update which apparently fixes the issue for those who haven't already been affected.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...10-display-a-notification-to-install-the-late

Well this all sounds like... fun!

So people have to rollback to the previous version because of another one of MS update cock-ups? Last time I tried to do a rollback on a 10 VM it turned into a total disaster. In the end I just deleted the VM. It's been a while though, so maybe they've improved the rollback process?

The whole thing is an inconvenience though.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Well this all sounds like... fun!

So people have to rollback to the previous version because of another one of MS update cock-ups? Last time I tried to do a rollback on a 10 VM it turned into a total disaster. In the end I just deleted the VM.

I keep backup copies of my VMs in case of disaster.

I also use the Snapshot feature for my VMs that run in VMware Workstation 9.

It's been a while though, so maybe they've improved the rollback process?

I'm not sure it has.

Here is a link from a post (made a couple of days ago) in TenForums:
Windows 10 not working properly after rollback - Microsoft Community

The whole thing is an inconvenience though.

That's stating it politely.

 

[Brds7t7]

I usually do take regular Snapshots, but it was one of my daft moments where I'd deleted the snapshots for that particular VM the day before, gone off to do something else, and then forgotten to do one for it before attempting the rollback.

Wasn't too bothered about it though, as I didn't use the 10 VM very often and had nothing important in it anyway.

 

[lehnerus2000]

I usually do take regular Snapshots, but it was one of my daft moments where I'd deleted the snapshots for that particular VM the day before, gone off to do something else, and then forgotten to do one for it before attempting the rollback.

Isn't that always the way.
The one time you forget is the time you actually need to do it.

Wasn't too bothered about it though, as I didn't use the 10 VM very often and had nothing important in it anyway.

I'm going to have to install Visual Studio 2015 and try to get Hyper-V to run in my W10 VM (for my TAFE course).