Maybe, just maybe, Apple is concerned

[elgreco]

First some background: I have used MS windows since the mid-80s. I recently dumped my PC for a Mac Book Pro due to extensive issues with Vista. I am quite happy with the MPB but my work requires me to run some windows-software (Visio and MS Project to be specific). I use VMware fusion to run windows on my Mac and since OSX can address lots of memory (in my case 6gb unoffically, 4gb offically) running windows on a Mac is easy and fast-- i just give adequate disk space and 2 Gb of RAM.

There is a growing group on the Apple forums (macrumor and appleinsider) that are testing Win 7 RC on Macs (!) and I must tell you, the general opinion is very very favorable. Comments like 'they finally got it right' to 'fast and stable'. In a Mac forum this is tandimount to breaking one of the 10 Commandments. Oh, yes, there are blind fanboys who hate anything Micro$oft but, generally, the number of people impressed with Win 7 in Apple-land is growing. For Apple, a niche player in the OS world, this has to be of some concern. Snow Leopard (OS X 10.6) is due in fall or earlier but if Win 7 continues to impress APPLE people, I can only imagine what its doing to people with large dollars invested in windows equipment.
And to Microsoft I say 'Bravo'. It took you a long while to get there but you finally did.

 

[Captain Zero]

I'm glad to see the age-old MAC/PC hate-on finally subsiding. What it sounds like is a genuine appreciation for a solid OS, regardless of who makes it and without the usual 'MS sucks', PC bashing that usually occurs. Mind you, this is a two-way street and always has been. Wow, back in the 80's it was Amiga vs. PC.

Then again, Amiga users had good reason for hating MS but that's another thread.

Kudos to the Mac crew for being unbiased and objectively taking a look.

 

[garysgold]

Hello Elgreco,

Welcome to Seven Forums.

Thanks for the info. Hope you enjoy your stay.

Gary

 

[Lordbob75]

Don't knock it till you try it!

I will admit I have never used a Mac for my computer, but have heard good and bad. I don't judge, since I don't have the experience.

I HATE people that are like "whatever sucks! Its no good at all because someone made it!" and have never even SEEN it in use or whatever.

Glad to see that they at least appreciate the effort M$ put into it.

~Lordbob

 

[johngalt]

I not only have used a Mac, I maintain a lab of 25 iMacs at uni, and I have them dual booting OSX 10.5.5 an Windows XP (as that is the only OS the University really supports).

The MacOS is easier to use, no offense to *any* windows fanboy - but it is - it always has been.

I did newspaper layout and Design on a Mac for years - when I was forced to go through the Windows side of things it was a major PITA to use the software, even after switching to Quark. Apples were just faster, and better - and this was on an apple that was 4 years older than the PC.

however, I have always used PCs at home b/c I am most certainly not going to pay for an OS that a company can dictate to me what I can run it on and what I cannot. Therefore, I am a PC.

Also, there is not a lessening in the fanboyism - they just have a new place to look, in terms of *nix - but with 1000s of distributions out there now it is a lot more spread out than just Windows versus Mac.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi all
For Photo editing / all things like pre-press preparation etc etc the unwritten rule was always to use MAC / Apple type equipment --. To get pictures ready for Press and to use any sort of commercial "publishing" type software on Windows used to be a real pain which is why Macs had conquered this area almost completely.

Hardware screen colour calibrarion was "iffy" at the most on Windows -- and if you are into PRO photography accurate colour rendition is of paramount importance -- you certainly couldn't do it on an "el cheapo monitor".
True you had to use things like the Apple Cinema display (actually this can now run on Windows) and stuff like that which was Hideously expensive - but if it's your livlihood then you just pay for it.

With W7 now STABLE in 64 bit mode getting accurate colour from a pro digital camera's RAW files in 14 Bits (the typical standard is actually still 12 bits) using say Photoshop CS4 is now not a problem any more. Converting to CYMK (often needed for PRESS) is also straightforward and using the hardware color calibration devices like a spyder on a high quality monitor on Windows is now fine -- even the graphics cards have improved beyond all recognition.

The once overwhelming advantage Macs had in this area are really GONE - especially if you look at a Price : Performance ratio.

Macs are fine if you like them (and can afford them) -- but these days W7 is very much "Fit for purpose" in the few areas where Macs really did hold sway.

With the Intel macs running Fusion you can run Windows on them now anyway -- and as other Mac users have pointed out they can try out W7 without having to wipe out their OS.

Quite a few Mac users seem to be suitably impressed with W7 (even if it's on a Virtual Machine).

Now MS doesn't stop people from running Windows on ANY hardware whatsoever maybe Apple should try and be a little more open in allowing it's OS to be run as a VM on non Apple equipment-- I'd love to be able to run Aperture (a photo editing application) on Windows BTW.

History shows that keeping stuff 100% closed is never a good idea -- these companies and their products eventuually wither away as people find newer (not necessarily better) and more convenient alternatives.

Anybody remember SONY's really excellent and still one of the best Audio compression formats ever invented --ATRAC -- but keeping it closed has assured its demise except on some old legacy gear like Mini-disc recorders (which I still like BTW and beat any IPOD into dust as far as sound quality is concerned -- that's another topic for Hydrogen Audio forums stc).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[napilopez]

It's nice to see some of the OS wars subsiding. It's as bad as the console wars XD.

I agree with the dissent towards silly prejudice about an OS only because of its maker.

I'd like to address some points johngalt, none of it meant as offense but mearly contrary opinion:

The MacOS is easier to use, no offense to *any* windows fanboy - but it is - it always has been.

I disagree with this, alot. It depends on your definition of easy, but in my view Mac is "simpler", not necesarily more easy to use. There is a difference between simple and easy. The iphone is simple, but it only having one button +volume controls does not make it easier to use than lets say a touch screen phone with all the same features in addition to a real keyboard more player controls. Lookk at the original itouch, users complained heavily about the lack of manual volume controls. I find similar arguments are applicable to much of OSX. Lots of things are simplified, but that doesn't always mean the overall OS experience is easier, especially not in this day and age(in developed countries), where everyone knows how to use a computer.

Like the whole one-button thing, for example. Yea, it can be customized, but really, why? I know that for old people or little kids it might be easier to explain how to use a computer with just one button, but its no big deal.

Maybe I'm just complaining because I strongly dislike using the keyboard for anything other than typing, so having to control click on a mac I cant config the settings on because its not mine or watevs is quite maddening

Also, there is not a lessening in the fanboyism - they just have a new place to look, in terms of *nix - but with 1000s of distributions out there now it is a lot more spread out than just Windows versus Mac.

I suppose so, but the mainstream user base is still pretty much all windows/mac. I honestly can't see Ubuntu or any other linux distro going big though, unless serious changes are made, as much as I love and support opensource stuff. Ubuntu used to be my main OS.

 

[Novim]

I installed Win 7 (RC1 7100) on my MacBook 3 days ago - WiFi worked immediately, for sound I added drivers from OS X disk; everything works perfectly. (Or, if one prefers, both OS X and Win 7 "rulez" - OS X "rulez" a bit more, since it is the native system, and Win 7 "rulez" a bit less only because it is still the candidate release.)

 

[jimbo45]

It's nice to see some of the OS wars subsiding. It's as bad as the console wars XD.

I agree with the dissent towards silly prejudice about an OS only because of its maker.

I'd like to address some points johngalt, none of it meant as offense but mearly contrary opinion:


I disagree with this, alot. It depends on your definition of easy, ......

Hi there

as a main user of Windows but on ocasions I have used a MAC I still have to say that for any type of "Commercial Publishing" and pre-press work a MAC rang rings round Windows for ease of use

Note Not EVERYTHING is easier -- just some things like the applications specifed above.

By ease of use I found things were just "intuitive" and natural -- without any training on a Mac I was up and running on a lot of Press Prep stuff -- to achieve the same thing in Windows I really did have to go through all sorts of hoops -- and the earlier versions of Windows weren't always that stable -- even the beloved XP of a lot of users on this board. -- Actually for really HARD rigourous use I probably found Windows 2000 the most stable MS os (until W7).

Now I don't use Macs very often at all these days -- all my work can be done quite nicely now in Windows -- but until relatively recently even as a 100% noob on Apple gear I could perform quite complex Press publications and photo editing very quickly -- this used to take AGES on a Windows machine.

I also agree that "Dumbing" everything down to the lowest common denominator is also a bad idea -- which is why I hope such applications like Photoshop will still be around for a long time yet. I've been using it for YEARS and still find new features or ways to do things which is great when you want that special effect etc.

But at the other end of the scale a "noob" can pick up the essentials quite quickly and for a lot of people that's fine. Don't hobble the product for those who DO need something more complex.

(And W7 BTW in the "Ease of use and reliability stakes changes everything -- as even some die hard mac users testify).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[napilopez]

Attesting to the ease of use in Windows 7 is just how easily people seem to adapt and discover new features in it. Every peson who has used my lappytop has been able to get around 7 easily, and immediately started making use of aero peek without me telling them to. After a while they began to use desktop preview and aero snap. All without me telling them how.

 

[Jon55]

Long time poster on the MacRumors Forum here.


There was a lot of positive feedback towards Windows even from the Vista days. There just also unfortunately happens to be a fair share of the hardcore Apple kool-aid drinkers and XP fanboys.