Acer Laptop: Switchable Graphics using i7 & AMD Radeon

[Philone]

So I just purchased this new Acer laptop.
It has a Radeon HD 6650M, and an i7-2360QM with HD Graphics 3000. The Graphics processor within the i7 is the primary VGA and I cant get the computer to utilize the Radeon. Its supposed to be switchable with the catalyst drivers to run off the i7 for increased battery life, and the Radeon when pluged into an outlet. I've downloaded the Drivers off of asus' website and that did nothing. And when I open The Catalyst Control Center, it gives me the option to use "High Performance Graphics" this of course does nothing. The computer still runs off of the i7.

I contacted Asus technical support via online chat, and they had no idea what they were talking about, sying something along the lines of "You need to take out your new AMD card and put in another and see if that works." I told them several times that I had a laptop and no option of switching graphics cards. so I'm hoping someone here can at least guide me in the right direction.

Since I still might RMA this laptop, I don't want to do anything too crazy to get access to the Radeon. But I will accept crap battery life if that means I get to at least use the Radeon.


The Catalyst Driver version is 8.813.1.0

 

[TVeblen]

First, I suggest that you restore your original driver setup from when you first got this laptop while you perform tests of this new graphics system. In recent years the graphics drivers for both video chips had to be installed together as a package, and installing the stand-alone driver for the AMD or nVidia chip screwed things up for some folks.

That said, please be aware that I just started reading about these new graphics chips this week. I am hardly up to speed and certainly no expert.

But it is my impression, based upon this article here (nVidia Optimus, I know - but AMD and nVidia tend to mirror each other in technology):
Nvidia Unveils Optimus Switchable Graphics Technology | PCWorld
it sounds to me like the more powerful graphics chip does not "kick in" until you are actually doing something that requires more graphics power.

Here is the AMD article:
AMD Switchable Graphics Technology
While it is not clear, it could be assumed that they are doing the same thing.

Not having complete control over my computers settings would drive me right out of my mind! If these new graphics chips only run on automatic that is a real negative for me.

Let's see if others with more experience with these chips will chime in. I think this thread would be better in the Graphics Cards section for best exposure to the people who might know. I'll see what I can do about that.

 

[Philone]

Yeah I noticed the graphics card subforum just after I posted this thread. And I don't want to Double post here and there. If a mod could move it for me, that would be most appreciated.

 

[tomwhatley]

Philone,

I understand your frustration.

I have an Aspire7750G-9657. It sounds like the same set up as yours. The Dynamic Switchable Graphics found in this model only allow you to specify GPU by either associating a program with "High Performance", or through power options. Other notebooks with switchable graphics allow the user to manually switch to the higher performing card. Some even have a switch on the case, but my understanding is these require a reboot, whereas the Acer can do it on the fly (supposedly).

For a while I was going NUTS that I couldn't switch the graphics card, but I can confirm that it does in fact switch to the 6650M when it thinks it "needs" to. The first time I ran Dragon Age 2 trial I saw a dialogue box pop up for a split second with Catalyst Control Center in the title bar (though I couldn't read anything else). The game runs and looks amazing.

That being said, I have a hard time believing it really switches when it should. I have benchmarked the performance of this notebook with Novabench and Passmark (and a couple others) and it scores high in every category except GPU. Using Passmark I ran 3D tests over and over trying different settings to see if the AMD would kick in. Generally I got 60FPS, but ONCE I got close to 400FPS! I knew that must have been the AMD but I could not recreate it. That leads me to believe that Dynamic Switchable Graphics, while great in theory, is unreliable. (It for sure works sometimes though)

I read elsewhere that HP started using Dynamic Switchable Graphics in some of their notebooks, but consumers were fed up with not having complete control, so a BIOS update was released that enabled manually switching the cards.

I love this laptop and I know the high performance graphics CAN work, so I'm keeping it and hoping for a BIOS update that will enable manually switching the GPU. Plus I've already upgraded the memory and hard drive.

 

[TVeblen]

Hi tomwhatley. Welcome to the forum.

Thank you for that information. Very helpful towards understanding these new systems.

Maybe you and the OP should ask ACER for a BIOS update too .

 

[Philone]

Thank you tomwhatley, and I have the Acer 7750G-9657 the same one that you have, I too am able to play intensive games with good FPS. this makes me think it HAS to be switching. But I cant do it manually and that's what frustrates me the most. You have been helpful in confirming my suspicions about the card switching though, and I thank you for that

 

[search53]

Philone,

That being said, I have a hard time believing it really switches when it should. I have benchmarked the performance of this notebook with Novabench and Passmark (and a couple others) and it scores high in every category except GPU. Using Passmark I ran 3D tests over and over trying different settings to see if the AMD would kick in. Generally I got 60FPS, but ONCE I got close to 400FPS! I knew that must have been the AMD but I could not recreate it. That leads me to believe that Dynamic Switchable Graphics, while great in theory, is unreliable. (It for sure works sometimes though)

I just got done running Passmark, and I too was disappointed in the results. Out of curiosity, I ran the "Advanced" 3D Graphics test. The results were MUCH better. The only explanation I can come up with for the degree of difference is that the Advanced used the Radeon, despite the fact that it doesn't even show up in Passmark's configuration dropdown Graphics menu.

 

[search53]

So I just purchased this new Acer laptop.
It has a Radeon HD 6650M, and an i7-2360QM with HD Graphics 3000. The Graphics processor within the i7 is the primary VGA and I cant get the computer to utilize the Radeon. Its supposed to be switchable with the catalyst drivers to run off the i7 for increased battery life, and the Radeon when pluged into an outlet. I've downloaded the Drivers off of asus' website and that did nothing. And when I open The Catalyst Control Center, it gives me the option to use "High Performance Graphics" this of course does nothing. The computer still runs off of the i7.

I contacted Asus technical support via online chat, and they had no idea what they were talking about, sying something along the lines of "You need to take out your new AMD card and put in another and see if that works." I told them several times that I had a laptop and no option of switching graphics cards. so I'm hoping someone here can at least guide me in the right direction.

Acer and Asus are two different companies. It's no wonder they had no idea what to tell you.

What disappointed me is the fact that the 7750G-9657 requires very special DIMMs. I bought Kingston PC3-8500 DDR3 204 pin SO-DIMM from Newegg on the same order as I did with the laptop. When I installed them, the machine slowed to a crawl. Acer support confirms my observation - they said they were incompatible.

Further research into the matter exposes that the compatible memory goes for about $25 PER GIGABYTE!! That's $200 for 8GB - and nothing special about it.

 

[tomwhatley]

Philone,

That being said, I have a hard time believing it really switches when it should. I have benchmarked the performance of this notebook with Novabench and Passmark (and a couple others) and it scores high in every category except GPU. Using Passmark I ran 3D tests over and over trying different settings to see if the AMD would kick in. Generally I got 60FPS, but ONCE I got close to 400FPS! I knew that must have been the AMD but I could not recreate it. That leads me to believe that Dynamic Switchable Graphics, while great in theory, is unreliable. (It for sure works sometimes though)

I just got done running Passmark, and I too was disappointed in the results. Out of curiosity, I ran the "Advanced" 3D Graphics test. The results were MUCH better. The only explanation I can come up with for the degree of difference is that the Advanced used the Radeon, despite the fact that it doesn't even show up in Passmark's configuration dropdown Graphics menu.

I'm feeling too lazy to look for the link now, but I read about the way this "switch" happens and I think it's why passmark (and others) only see the integrated card.

Actually, TVeblen posted this link earlier in this thread:

Nvidia Unveils Optimus Switchable Graphics Technology | PCWorld

"....previous switchable graphics tech had to have a series of multiplexers connecting both the integrated and discrete graphics to the display...Optimus is a lot cleaner. When the discrete GPU is called for, it powers up in a split second and copies the results of its frame-buffer to the frame-buffer of the integrated graphics chip..."

In our case, the discreet card (6650M) is not directly connected to the display, only the integrated card (IntelHD3000) is. When the 6650M kicks in it does all the processing in the background and feeds that to the HD3000, which displays the results on your screen. So Passmark doesn't really know what's happening, it only sees the name of the display adapter connected to the display.

I don't know if that will cause problems with software that has a minimum graphics adapter requirement. If some software only sees the integrated card will it error out during installation saying that this computer doesn't meet the minimum requirements? Or run at lower resolution or performance because it's trying to adjust for the integrated card?

 

[tomwhatley]

What disappointed me is the fact that the 7750G-9657 requires very special DIMMs. I bought Kingston PC3-8500 DDR3 204 pin SO-DIMM from Newegg on the same order as I did with the laptop. When I installed them, the machine slowed to a crawl. Acer support confirms my observation - they said they were incompatible.

Further research into the matter exposes that the compatible memory goes for about $25 PER GIGABYTE!! That's $200 for 8GB - and nothing special about it.

I think they might be full of it. Unless your Acer has something special mine doesn't, there is no reason you cant upgrade your ram. Just make sure you match speed AND size in each channel.

The specs on Newegg and even Acer's website said the dimms were DDR3-1066/PC3-8500. They are not; they are DDR3-1333/PC3-10600. My laptop came with a 4GB Elpida dimm and a 2GB kingston.

I used CPU-Z to spec my system which is how I discovered they were PC3-10600. Naturally having two empty ram slots won't do, so I went to CompUSA and picked up a pair of generic 4GB dimms branded by PNY. I paid $50 for the pair.

Now with 14 gigs my laptop immediately started running really hot, really slow, and generally crappy. It was taking well over a minute just to get to the login. After some research I started to suspect that the oddball 2GB Kingston might be the cause, and yanking it out confirmed that suspicion. So I got a third 4GB dimm and it's been humming along nicely ever since. Been 3 months and I've had no problems. Even managed a 7.7 on the Windows Experience Index for Memory. Did I need 16GB of ram? Not at all. Could I stand having just 6 when I could spend $75 and have 16? Not at all.

 

[search53]

I'm feeling too lazy to look for the link now, but I read about the way this "switch" happens and I think it's why passmark (and others) only see the integrated card.

Actually, TVeblen posted this link earlier in this thread:

Nvidia Unveils Optimus Switchable Graphics Technology | PCWorld

"....previous switchable graphics tech had to have a series of multiplexers connecting both the integrated and discrete graphics to the display...Optimus is a lot cleaner. When the discrete GPU is called for, it powers up in a split second and copies the results of its frame-buffer to the frame-buffer of the integrated graphics chip..."

In our case, the discreet card (6650M) is not directly connected to the display, only the integrated card (IntelHD3000) is. When the 6650M kicks in it does all the processing in the background and feeds that to the HD3000, which displays the results on your screen. So Passmark doesn't really know what's happening, it only sees the name of the display adapter connected to the display.

I don't know if that will cause problems with software that has a minimum graphics adapter requirement. If some software only sees the integrated card will it error out during installation saying that this computer doesn't meet the minimum requirements? Or run at lower resolution or performance because it's trying to adjust for the integrated card?

While the idea of a more transparent secondary GPU does seem to be incorporated in our machines, NVIDIA is not involved in ours. NVIDIA makes GeForce, it's AMD/ATI that makes our Radeon.

You raise an issue that I hadn't thought of, but does seem possible - installation misidentification. I don't install all that many graphics intensive programs (so far, WoW has been the only one), so I may not run into it.

 

[search53]

I think they might be full of it. Unless your Acer has something special mine doesn't, there is no reason you cant upgrade your ram. Just make sure you match speed AND size in each channel.

The specs on Newegg and even Acer's website said the dimms were DDR3-1066/PC3-8500. They are not; they are DDR3-1333/PC3-10600. My laptop came with a 4GB Elpida dimm and a 2GB kingston.

I used CPU-Z to spec my system which is how I discovered they were PC3-10600. Naturally having two empty ram slots won't do, so I went to CompUSA and picked up a pair of generic 4GB dimms branded by PNY. I paid $50 for the pair.

Now with 14 gigs my laptop immediately started running really hot, really slow, and generally crappy. It was taking well over a minute just to get to the login. After some research I started to suspect that the oddball 2GB Kingston might be the cause, and yanking it out confirmed that suspicion. So I got a third 4GB dimm and it's been humming along nicely ever since. Been 3 months and I've had no problems. Even managed a 7.7 on the Windows Experience Index for Memory. Did I need 16GB of ram? Not at all. Could I stand having just 6 when I could spend $75 and have 16? Not at all.

Your train of thought about upgrading memory is identical to mine - which is why I bought the 8GB at the same time as the machine. But, I was careful to buy precisely what the specs said I needed - the PC3-8500. I may have to return them to Newegg for some PC3-10600's. Thanks for the info.

 

[McDaniel007]

Hi,

I have the same laptop and a similar problem.

When I play this java game (wurmonline) the laptop will run it on intel HD.
I have tried everything i could think of to run it on the ATI card but it doesn't work.

I contacted acer and amd, acer points at amd, amd points at acer. (at least amd said they would inform the catalyst dev team)

But so far I am still stuck.

 

[search53]

I'm not 100% convinced it's NOT running on the Radeon.

From what I've read about the i7, the Intel graphics capabilities are burned into the CPU itself - it's not the integrated graphics motherboard like so many other systems. When the i7 detects that more assistance is needed and available, it may call upon this additional hardware without sending out any notification that it has done so.

 

[McDaniel007]

well i have played the game with java on high performance and java on low performance in the switchable graphics option and I don't notice a real difference.

 

[search53]

I'm also not convinced that selecting "Power Saving" prevents the i7 from activating the Radeon if it feels it needs it. The setting may simply tell the system what mode to start out with... what happens after that being the runtime decision of the i7.

In other words, you may have told it to use low performance, but maybe it ignored you and used high performance both times.

I could be 100% wrong, I have no sources to cite - but these are thoughts I've had about it.

 

[McDaniel007]

well this game runs terribly for me (even with all graphics to lowest), and other games like shogun2 i can run very smooth with everything on highest

I have a 3 year old laptop with just onboard ati hd 3200 card and it plays the game better

 

[search53]

We definitely need more information from Acer, AMD and Intel about our machine.

 

[TVeblen]

We are all going to need to watch and learn and do a lot of reading about these new technologies. As with all things new tech, it sucks being on the uphill side of the learning curve.

Please keep us all informed of what you find folks! We all can learn here. I do not have one of these new systems that I can play with .

Here are a couple of articles you may find helpful. I'm sure there are more and better ones as more of these systems come out and are reviewed.

Switchable graphics solutions duel it out, AMD ends up looking like a chump -- Engadget

AnandTech - Mobile GPU Faceoff: AMD Dynamic Switchable Graphics vs. NVIDIA Optimus Technology

 

[search53]

Thank you for the links, I'm watching the first one now. I noticed one difference less than 2 minutes into the video. like Engadget, I have Catalyst Control Center. My version, however, does not have the option "Switchable Graphics Method" the way his does. All I have is "Power Play" and "Switchable Graphics" (the other two options seen in the video)