Another back up strategy question

[Riggers]

This is my first visit to the back up and restore forum so please go easy on me. I've searched the forums to try and get a view on the best way forward but there is so much information in here and so many differing opinions I thought it best to start a thread of my own.

This is what I need to back up on my Sony Vaio Laptop:

C Drive (Internal 100GB/250GB in use) - system image, working files and folders, favourites etc.
M Drive - (USB 500GB/640GB in use) - Music and pictures
V Drive - (USB 700/1TB in use) - Videos

I also have a 2TB external USB drive which I will use for back ups only (and I'll keep this at work to protect against theft or fire at home).

Since windows backup does an incremental backup I figured it should be as simple as plugging all the drives in once per week, setting the back up settings to take a system image and 'let windows choose' (all my M & V drive folders are added to the libraries so should be picked up by windows default setting) hit back up now and the back up should run pretty quickly because it will just pick out files and folders that have changed since the last backup.

Is this what I can expect? I wouldn't know because I've not had chance to try it yet because my initial backup is still running after 2 days lol

Having read the forum it seems that another option would be to use windows to create a system image and back up my working files and folders (weekly would be good for me) and then use Macrium Free version to do occasional backups of my M & V drives (monthly should suffice).

 

[pparks1]

On the external drive, do you want to have multiple backup copies of your Music, Pictures and Videos...or is one point in time copy sufficient? For me, I find 1 copy of these things to be ok...I just want them in case my original hard drive takes a dump.

So, this is exactly how I handle my backups
1). I use robocopy to backup my data files (music, pictures and videos). I create a batch file called backup.bat that reads as follows
robocopy M:\music X:\backups\music /MIR /E
robocopy M:\pictures X:\backups\music /MIR /E
robocopy V:\videos X:\backups\music /MIR /E

2). I use an imaging software (I use Acronis at home, Macrium at work, but considering EaseUS ToDoBackup Free 3 to replace them both).
I use this to take regular full images of my C drive where my OS and my applications are stored. I usually image about once every 2 weeks.


The thing I like about robocopy is that the backups are not stored in any type of backup file. They are just sitting on the external drive. Thus, if you have a catastrophic failure of your system, you should be able to plug that external drive into any other computer and without needing any software of any kind, you can just copy the files back off. In addition, robocopy simply copies just the changes in the files beteween the source and the destination. Thus, the first copy takes a long time as it has to copy everything, but all future runs of the batch file are fast as it only copies the files that have changed.

In the above robocopy commands, the /MIR means to mirror the source and destination. Thus, if you have deleted the file from your source M drive...it will be deleted from the backup drive as well the next time you run the job. And the /E means to copy even empty subdirectories.

And I applaud your decision to keep that 2TB drive offsite. This makes things far safer. I keep 2 drives offsite with my backups. I stagger them, so technically I have 2 point in time backups.

 

[preiius]

Ideally, you want to move all your data files, such as documents, pictures and etc, away from your system partition (c drive) that contains Windows. This way, you'll be able to backup/restore Windows without affecting your data. Once your programs are all installed, system partition hardly changes, so you can create system image every few months.

How often you do data backup depends on how often your files change and how important those files are to you. I'm lazy, I backup every month or sometimes longer . For smaller, important files, I backup to Dropbox, which provides 2GB free.

 

[Riggers]

Thanks for the comments guys.

Can anyone answer my question about the W7 incremental back up? Could it be as simple as just plug all my drives in and click back up with the system image option included? I can see how that gives me a simple solution in a few clicks including a separate system image and file back up I can use to restore any individual files. Sounds simple so what's the catch? Would it take too long with the amounts of data I have ((my music, pics and video don't change that much).

I like things easy and simple and don't really want to start partitioning my VAIO drive just to keep documents separate. Just a simple and quick back up procedure is what I'm after.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Personally, I would not use incremental images. I'd use full images only. Seems to me we see problems arising from the use of incrementals more often in these forums. They just add complexity and can lead to confusion.

I'd use an imaging program to back up C (Macrium, Acronis, EaseUS) and a different traditional file by file backup program (Robocopy, Second Copy, Synctoy, etc) to back up the V and M drives. Two separate programs and most likely two different schedules.

I'd be reluctant to completely rely on an automated schedule until I was highly familiar with the programs. There's few things worse than being deluded into a false sense of security because you don't fully understand what a backup program is (or is not) doing---only to be disappointed when you have a catastrophic disk failure and find out that your backup isn't quite what you thought it would be.

A full backup of data probably wouldn't take more than 2 minutes, although the first backup can take hours. A full image backup of C alone normally takes under 10 minutes.


But don't get complacent.

 

[pparks1]

Can anyone answer my question about the W7 incremental back up? Could it be as simple as just plug all my drives in and click back up with the system image option included?

I think with the built in imaging tool, it's 1 or the other. I don't think you can do an image, and a file backup type at the same time.

I like things easy and simple and don't really want to start partitioning my VAIO drive just to keep documents separate. Just a simple and quick back up procedure is what I'm after.

You don't have to partition your drive to keep things separate. You already sorted out your Music, Pictures and Videos. If you simply moved your document style files to another drive...you should be all set.

As far as staying simple, this seems simple to me;
--A quick robocopy job whenever you want to backup documents, videos, music and pictures to your external drive.
--Another quick system image from time to time to save your OS and applications.

 

[Riggers]

I think with the built in imaging tool, it's 1 or the other. I don't think you can do an image, and a file backup type at the same time.

You can kick it all off as part of the same operation. Windows creates a system image file and also a file back up file.

You don't have to partition your drive to keep things separate. You already sorted out your Music, Pictures and Videos. If you simply moved your document style files to another drive...you should be all set.

This is a laptop that I use on the go all the time, mostly not requiring USB drives to be attached as I don't usually need access to pictures and music so it's not really convenient moving all my documents to a spare drive.

I just want to know if Windows Backup performs ok for what i described above.

 

[pparks1]

I would think that Windows backup should be fine for what you mention. I used the built-in imager a couple of times and it was fine for me. But it was limited, couldn't easily be moved or renamed, so I dumped it in favor of something with some more features like Acronis.

Honestly, check out EaseUs ToDoBackup Free version 3. I've been testing it a bit for a few days and it seems really solid. It images, it backs up files, it can be scheduled, it can offsite stuff...it's very full featured for a freebie app. And it's quite intuitive.

 

[mjf]

I have used Windows imaging on 2 PCs many times without problem. Probably reimaged ~20 times with it. You can easily move and rename images. See these tutorials
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/663-backup-complete-computer-create-image-backup.html
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/675-system-image-recovery.html
I never include imaging in a Windows Backup & Restore schedule. It will make difference images in shadow storage. I think this is very risky and I make images manually one at a time by clicking on the "Create a system image" button.

I also use Macrium Reflect as a supplementary imaging program in case Windows imaging fouls up. It's a very well regarded program and more flexible.

However, I am tempted to try the new Easeus product since it appears to have some additional nice free features.

 

[pparks1]

I just don't like the fact that you have to jump through hoops renaming and moving the built in system image tool. Seems it would be just easier to let the user call the file what they want and prompt for it during a restore, rather than being totally dependent on the folder having a specific name.

In the end, I just wanted more features. Ability to create more restore points, the Acronis Try & Decide feature, etc. And I only paid $23.99 for Acronis...so I think it was worth that. But right now, the new EaseUS ToDo has my attention. It's very solid for a free app, and very intuitive...especially for those new to imaging.

 

[preiius]

Can we trust Easeus products? They are fairly new, compared to Acronis and Macrium. Backup/restore has to work every time, with no exception.

 

[pparks1]

EaseUs has been around for awhile (since 2004). I've used their 1.1 product for a few years now without any real issue. They have free products, workstation products and server products as well. I'd trust them as much as I would Macrium or Acronis (and I own Acronis True Image 2010)

 

[Riggers]

Everyone seems to be hung up on system images and, whilst its clearly important to have one, I find the obsession with it a bit geeky to be honest. I'll create an image, rename it (I think I can cope with using explorer to rename a folder lol) and keep it somewhere safe.

I'm getting very little information on the aspect that I'm most concerned about and that's finding a quick, simple and effective way of doing an incremental backup for a large amount of data. I'll try Windows 7 back up and if that proves to be too slow I'll check out some of the other products mentioned and report back.

 

[mjf]

Everyone seems to be hung up on system images and, whilst its clearly important to have one, I find the obsession with it a bit geeky to be honest. I'll create an image, rename it (I think I can cope with using explorer to rename a folder lol) and keep it somewhere safe.

I'm getting very little information on the aspect that I'm most concerned about and that's finding a quick, simple and effective way of doing an incremental backup for a large amount of data. I'll try Windows 7 back up and if that proves to be too slow I'll check out some of the other products mentioned and report back.

Hmm. I guess we consider imaging somewhat important. It becomes more important when it fails you. It is only the geeky advice that comes free.

Do you realize there are two distinctly different backup mechanisms within Windows 7? Both handle the "incremental approach" differently - which one are you talking about?

 

[preiius]

Yeah, free advice, why listen??

I suspect why OP's initial backup is taking so long is Backup & Restore (B&R) is compressing over 1T of data, and that over slow usb interface. Here are some options:

1. Use B&R to backup just the working files in c:. If you want it as quick as possible, don't save the system image. Use sync program like synctoy to sync contents of m: and v: to backup hd.

2. Use alternative backup program like cobian where you can backup without compression.

 

[pparks1]

Everyone seems to be hung up on system images and, whilst its clearly important to have one, I find the obsession with it a bit geeky to be honest. I'll create an image, rename it (I think I can cope with using explorer to rename a folder lol) and keep it somewhere safe.

The reasons that I harp on images is because;
1). Backups of data files are easy and are covered (for me). I use robocopy to make frequent and fast mirrors of all of my data onto 2 different external hard drives. If I run my backup once a week, it's finished in less than 2 minutes. So, my data is safe and always stored offsite. Pictures, videos, documents, budgets, passwords, etc.

2). Most people would consider the "crash" of their computer to be a monumental disaster. The time to get your OS disks, reload the OS, load your hardware drivers, run Windows update, activate the machine, find all of your software, reinstall all of your software, set all of your options within your software and restore your data can be a very long process. Having a recent image on hand reduces these hours to just minutes.

3). I think many average users are surprised to learn after backing up their data with something like the built-in tools, or a 3rd party tool for file backup...that they aren't able to simply restore the entire backup after a crash and be back up and running. Many are surprised to learn that they would have to load their os, load all of their software and then restore their actual data from their backups. Images help that problem to go away.

Reasons that I personally like to use images include

• A virus, malware, spyware can easily be corrected with an image restore
• never have to worry about a Windows Update causing a problem.
• Ever experience a problem with a BSOD or other problem after installing a video driver, this can resolve it quickly.
• i can easily switch back and forth between OS's on the same hard drive if I want to experiment with something new
• Eliminates the need to reactivate Windows after a fresh install.
• Can easily use the image and mount it after rebuilding to restore a file that you forgot to copy before you did a format and reinstall.
• It's free and easy.

I'm getting very little information on the aspect that I'm most concerned about and that's finding a quick, simple and effective way of doing an incremental backup for a large amount of data.

I asked right at the start if you wanted to have multiple point in time backups of your data. If you are like me, and you only care about having a single copy of all of your pictures, music and videos...using a tool like robocopy gives you a fabulously fast and easy way to not only backup but recover your data. Since it only backs up files that have changed, it only takes as long as it takes for any new files that you may have included. With regards to backups, you never have to worry again that you Full backups and subsequent incrementals are all intact and functional. Remember, with backup software...any corruption in one of these files could render the whole backup set useless. With something like robocopy, since it's just a straight up copy of the orignal files, any corruption in a backup file is simply a problem with that 1 file only. And finally, when disaster strikes, you can quickly plug in an external drive and copy the files off from it without having to use any backup software whatsoever. Just drag and drop.

I'll try Windows 7 back up and if that proves to be too slow I'll check out some of the other products mentioned and report back.

I'm sorry to have not commented much on Windows 7 backup, but that's because I just don't use it...so I cannot talk about it with any credibility. I've just given you advice based on years of experience using other methods and tools for backing up my data.

 

[mjf]

I'm sorry to have not commented much on Windows 7 backup, but that's because I just don't use it...so I cannot talk about it with any credibility. I've just given you advice based on years of experience using other methods and tools for backing up my data.

Windows 7 file/folder backup is fine for "modest" amounts of personal data. It depends on number of files and size.
Pros:
(1) It's built in and ready to go.
(2) It does incremental backups after the first - most of the time.
(3) Ideal for relatively small amounts of personal data (say <=10GB).
Cons:
(1) It uses ZIP files and requires a fair amount of processing. The first full backup can be slower than a full image!
(2) Although it uses incremental backup which is relatively quick, it will from time to time perform a FULL backup and make an additional clean backup set. This again will be slow and can be annoying if you have a sizable amount of data.

If this doesn't suite look at the advice already given. Consider reorganizing your data and perhaps a third party incremental imaging product.