Borderlands and AA

[Wishmaster]

At 1080P, all settings Max, x16 AF, my game runs just beautifully.
(Except for DoF is disbaled. I just do not like the effect)

But, one thing thats always bothered me about the game are the occasional jaggies I can see.

I realize the game technically doesnt support AA, But Ive tried forcing it in the CP.

Even at x2 or x4. Performance really takes a huge hit.

Ive noticed with everything at max (No AA) my GPU is only using about 40-45% use to run the game.
With even just x2 AA it jumps to 99% use, and runs really bad.
Whats going on with that?


So Im curious if Im missing something here, or if others have had better luck or the same?


Im a bit confused because on other games that technically do not support AA, Ive been able to force it without issue.
For example:
Oblivion w/HDR enabled forced AA no issue running at (x8Q) and x16 AF.Even with lots of HD texture mods..
Bioshock forced AA, does just fine at x4 with x4MultiSample.

But this particular game really just doesnt seem to like even x2 at all .. unless of course Im missing something.

 

[mickey megabyte]

i've not played it for a long long time, and i still remember the dreaded jaggies.

the visual style of the game accentuates the problem, i seem to remember every edge of rock, hut etc having a thick black border, which always showed aliasing.

that was when i had my 4890, and as you say if you force enabled aa, performance took a severe nose-dive.

it seems that other early unreal 3 engine games, like the original bioshock and mass effect also had this aa problem - which seemed amazing for a 21st century game to have jaggies.

since then, they seem to have worked out how to add aa without too much frame-rate damage in more modern u3 games like me2 and homefront.

i suppose you'll just have to put up with the aliasing on these games until the next generation of gfx cards which have a bit more horsepower to deal with it.

i haven't tried borderlands with my 6950. maybe i should give it another playthrough - i remember enjoying it quite a lot - loads of guns and stats!

who was that old blind guy lived in the nearby shack in the first level? i was shocked and sad to see him go...

 

[sygnus21]

AA is kind of messy with the game, especially for those with ATI cards (yeah I know you switched to Nvidia). Anyway have a look through here - Borderlands: How to enable VSync, AA, etc... | Video Game Online Forums & Community | Game Platform Discussions for Video Games - GameTrailers.com

Also the was a fix where you could rename the exe to UT3.exe and supposedly AA would work (for ATI cards). Don't know what they had for Nvidia though. Again, read through the link I provide.

i haven't tried borderlands with my 6950. maybe i should give it another playthrough - i remember enjoying it quite a lot - loads of guns and stats!

The 6950 is no better as this is more a game issue. You could try renaming the exe like I suggested above.

FYI - List of games that need renaming of exe to get AA working - Rage3D Discussion Area

 

[Wishmaster]

Thanks.

You would think the art style would help hide jaggies, but seems to actually make them stand out more.




I did try renaming the exe to Bioshock.
Sadly, the result was the same as forcing it as Borderlands.


I can tell, with both methods, that is indeed working.
GPU works much harder, and game stutters in many areas.
Which is sad, because it looks so much better.


Its certainly a game issue it seems. I honestly do not believe it to be a ATI or Nvidia issue.
The card doesnt seem to have any issues doing AA with most every other game.

I remember these issues with my 4890, and just thought a more powerful GPU would be able to handle it. Apparently not.


At least Vsync works perfectly fine.
I think despise Image Tearing worse than I do a few jaggies

But, Id rather the game run smooth, no tearing, and a few jaggies rather than stuttering.



I did try it in Mass Effect 1 & 2 BTW.
Seems to work pretty well, and looks really good.
I read there may be graphical glitches in spots because of it however, but I havent seen them just yet. Then again, I havent played much yet either.

 

[Wishmaster]

Ok, so I was messing around with this a bit more.

If I disable Dynamic Shadows, I can run at x4AA x2Supersample or x8 Multisample AA and the game runs fine.
Looks nice too.

Turn dynamic shadows back on, and any AA what-so-ever, even x2, and the game starts to stutter.

What really weird, is I was watching the FPS in Evga's Precision, and its showing 45-60 FPS, when the game starts stuttering (with Shadows + AA)
It should be smooth at that frame rate ...

 

[mickey megabyte]

i'm going to reinstall it from my steam backup, and experiment with my 6950, just for the fun of it.

will report back in a few hours.

 

[mickey megabyte]

well this is opening up a can of worms

the game installed ok from steam backup, had to download some extra updates as it's been a while - BUT it wouldn't remember my settings - just like homefront. i think it's because i've got my steam games installing on E:, and my documents on F: - i wasn't getting a 'Borderlands' folder created in 'My Games'.

anyway did some googling and finally sorted it out by manually copying and pasting files from within my steam folder and making a My Games/Borderland/WillowGame/Config folder.

now my video settings and custom keybindings are being remembered.

BUT i've still got to solve my save game problem though.

i've made a SaveData folder in My Games/Borderlands/ and files are being saved in there when i visit the new-u stations - but when i try to load them, i'm taken right back to getting off the bus! even though the saved games say level 2 and remember names that i've given them when saving from outside dr zed's place AND i've got all the weapons that i picked up - see screenshot below - just got off the bus but i still have pistol found in the first box that claptrap shows me after taking out first wave of bandits.

so it looks like i'm going to have to muck about for a bit longer trying to solve this issue - oh well, ain't no rest for the wicked...

what files and folders should i have in My Games? does this look right?



=======================================

the good news is that the game runs fine on max settings and 8xaa - i downloaded the borderlands advanced config tool, and have these settings enabled:



game looks lovely, and framerates are good, even with dynamic shadows and ambient occlusion - although i've got to do a bit of experimenting to find optimum settings.

here's an example screenshot - jaggies not entirely eliminated - particularly visible in highlighted region, but much better than normal - as you can see edges of pistol and claptrap are nice and smooth (there's also a bit of jpg compression artefacts going on due to screenshot, but ignore that)



(top right is my ati tray tools overlay, showing fps, cpu activity and time. it can show lots more info, but that's my default setting.)

 

[sygnus21]

Well I've got the retail version so I know nothing of the way to configure for Steam so thanks for the info.

Anyway I never even bothered trying to fix AA with the game, just got used to it and played the game. Quite bored with it now seeing how I played it to death (single player).

Anyway thanks for the info, including this - borderlands advanced config tool - never knew such a thing existed. Nice find.

Hopefully this'll help Wishmaster.

Thanks.

 

[mickey megabyte]

i've managed to sort my saved games, not quite sure how, but it seems to work now.

also had to bump my aa down to 4x - was getting a bit of a framerate dip with too many bad guys on the screen.

apparently there's a much newer version of the advanced settings tool - but the link is dead...

found another tool here, but it doesn't seem as fully featured as the other...more googling needs to be donw

 

[sygnus21]

Don't know where Steam puts your saved files but the retail disk puts them here -

C:\Users\UserProfile\Documents\My Games\Borderlands\SaveData

I would imagine the steam version of the game does the same. It does it with Fallout NV, (which of course is a steam based game).....

C:\Users\UserProfile\Documents\My Games\FalloutNV\Saves

 

[mickey megabyte]

thanks drew - as per my post above, my saved games seem to be working now. i think my problem was due to having my user files on F: - bioshock, homefront and a few other unreal 3 games have the same problem - you would have thought the developers would have sorted it out by now, but no

thanks for reminding me of the game, jessie - i'd forgotten how much i enjoyed it - a sort of a poorman's comedy fallout, with guns, lots of guns, amusing characters, great music, original visuals and i just love the way some of the skags stand up and spit!

+1

 

[Wishmaster]

That tool is nice.

It obviously makes a change in regards to AA that was unaware of.
Whatever that change was, fixed my issue.



I downloaded it, and ran it, and now I can run with everything MAX, and AA.



Looks really nice now
Good find!


I enabled Phys-X too, but not sure if it is of any value.


LOL, I have so many games to play I cant decide what to concentrate on.
Was working on installing most of them, after the clean Windows install, but kinda been stuck with Borderlands since I installed it

 

[sygnus21]

I downloaded it, and ran it, and now I can run with everything MAX, and AA.

Looks really nice now

Your welcome mickey.

@ Wishmaster, so is this the placebo effect or do you actually notice AA working in the game?

BTW I love the art and music of Borderlands. It's also a good game, but can easily become unchallenging in single player mode as you level up, especially once you get the DLC's which allows for higher levels.

The game is basically a multiplayer game with a single player campaign.

 

[Wishmaster]

I downloaded it, and ran it, and now I can run with everything MAX, and AA.

Looks really nice now

Your welcome mickey.

@ Wishmaster, so is this the placebo effect or do you actually notice AA working in the game?

Yes, and No. It is working, but not as well as it could be.

Ive seen a couple places where theres still a bit of jaggies, but the large majority of it is gone.

The tools setting itself I didnt see much difference.
But after enabling it, I forced it through the CP, and it seems to be doing pretty well now.
Something with the tweak?

 

[mickey megabyte]

it's like in bc2, even with aa enabled, there are still jaggies on certain objects - but you don't get the horrendous framerate drop by just forcing it.

i've found using the tool, combined with forcing aa with ati tray tools (i've always hated ccc) smooths out the worst of the problem.

i'll upload some screenshots once i've turned them into jpgs...

*edit* if you look at the last picture, around the left edge of the 'table' there are some jaggies in places, but most of the screenshot is smooth.

maybe if i played with different aa settings i could improve it - but i would rather play the game, rather than with my settings

 

[Wishmaster]

Yea same here.
Forced in CP.

For the most part it looks really good. To bad you cant get rid of all the jaggies, but Im happy with it like this. Much better than it was.

 

[sygnus21]

@ Wishmaster, thanks. AA always was a problem in that game no matter the tweak. Forcing it in the GPU's control panel might give some relief as drivers get better and better.

@ mickey, that last image looks darn good. Had you not pointed out the jaggies I wouldn't have noticed them.

Since you have an ATI 6950 have you tried MLAA? I'm going to give it a try now.

 

[ezeht]

Glad you got it working.

I played this all yesterday and part of today- working on my new hunter.

Be nice to play some co op but not with my new hunter. One of my others would be ok. My first hunter maybe he has played everything- dont think he has any or many side missions left- his craw is awesome tho. If you just want to kill everything in maps and loot stuff or farm craw is fine with me.. I will not take folks to my armory tho.. Armory stuff sucks any way- I do not care to get locked out tho..

It is a lil hard to play with folks in this game you get what ever missions are showing in the host game and maybe stuck with them sucks.

* Any way that config tool looks cool. I am not worried on it tho. The game is cartoon like- jaggies do not so much bother me in the game and my vid card will not let me do a lot any way. Its running in dx10 all on high or [on] and 8x af. looks pretty nice and good view distance. I could run af a lil more high in dx9.

Borderlands is a cool game- can get a lil boring sometimes always playing alone tho.. If you guys want to hook up some time for some co op let me know I am game if you have all the dlc's that is? If you have rules say so. I am open to mod stuff tho I do not use it much- normally just to farm my craw as many times and as fast as possible up to 7x or if folks use them in duels or maybe to fast lev up a character. Im not using them with my new hunter Have none with him for 1. I am open to duping- drop dupe and out of game if you guys know what I am talking about. I think host should have first choice and give others same respect in his game.

I am not hard to play with or get along with. I normally follow and let folks play what ever maps they want to- so. I do not care for purists tho or will try and run off with mine or others stuff to destroy it- sucks. Being mods and duping is open out front in this game and not lied about or folks cheating ya like in other games. It is servers what ever purists can play on and leave others alone- is how I feel about it..

I pick up lil I have great stuff- I will drop dupe any thing I have if any of you want it- up to you.. I have maybe 10 or so mod things total but only carry a few things that are mod. All the rest of my gear comes from my craws. Some stuff I have another bud I share dupe with and move some stuff to my other characters- My siren has lots of stuff not duped yet.

I really only care to play my first hunter or my soldier in co op tho or with strangers- If they pick up missions I can not get rid of its not so bad. Being we are all from same forum and can hook up when ever it should not be hard to clear any open missions tho. You guys let me know what you think or your rules etc.. I am not much into dueling- if pressed I will mod or not its no matter. It is a few arenas I have not played yet- I would love to give them all a try someday- again mod or not is no matter to me- I will even dupe ya my mod stuff if you folks need or care for it- up to you. Which it was all give to me so..

I think it is best to pm and get server name or screen names versus the open- So pm me if you guys care to play- can join me or I you- no matter..

If you guys was starting a new player and if we all got same rewards- clap trap back pack slots etc Id ask if you all wanted to play with my new hunter he is lev 12 now. being only 1 person gets the rewards sucks and I started the hunter trying to get all the slots I can. I plan to play the dlc's with him before I start the destroyer per play through- I always started the dlc's before in pt 3 or 2.5 what ever you call it- I think I might get more slots playing all dlcs before I play the destroyer per pt. So it might be best to play your characters by its self until done with pt3 to get all slots- tho you can leave side quests open to play with others laters. I did not make the game- it sucks only 1 person gets the clap trap rewards tho and if all starting out new that is. So?

My siren and soldier have not played the clap traps yet and neither my soldier or first hunter has played prove your self yet at moxxi what 75 matches ? Not really trying to play the moxxi stuff either tho.. I back up my save games often- so it is hard for folks to hurt me or run off with my gear. I wish the game had a perm ban button- just kick folks they can come back.

I know where all boxes are maybe some you others have not seen before and its a secrete play at the race track I could take ya to- Some might know already. I guess it is a few boxes in clap traps I might have missed I only played it 1x and by my self so..

See ya..

 

[mickey megabyte]

i would like to play with somebody else, ezeht, but i'm on the other side of the atlantic, and ping/lag could be a problem.

@sygnus, i don't like mlaa - it sort of gives a blurry effect that i'm not into - i'm currently using adaptive multi-sample aa. tried it on 'edge detect' mode, but that really gives a noticeable performance hit, so it's currently 'box'.

 

[Wishmaster]

I took a couple as well







The Siren is actually pretty fun I think.