Cloning a Hard Drive Questions

[GamerKingFaiz]

Hey guys, I have a 160 GB Samsung external HDD that I sent into RMA, and I was thinking when I got it back I'd replace it with my notebook's 80 GB Seagate HDD.

My question is, can I simply use the enclosure (which connects via USB) and some cloning software (such as Seagate's DiscWizard software) to transfer over all the data (files, applications, OS, etc.) to the external HDD and then simply put the external inside the laptop, and use the old HDD as an external?

Is this possible, and if there are any better options (such as better cloning programs), please let me know.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Is this what you mean:

You get the 160 back from RMA and put it back in the enclosure.

You then clone directly from the 80 notebook internal to the 160 as it sits in the enclosure.

And then remove the 80 from the notebook and replace it with the 160 from the enclosure.

And then put the 80 into the enclosure.

If that's what you mean, the only hangup I can think of is that maybe you can't clone to an external drive. That's quite possible. You can image to one of course, but cloning is a different operation.

Worst case scenario--you try it and fail.

 

[GamerKingFaiz]

Yes that is exactly what I am wanting to do, and what's the difference between imaging and cloning?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Hope you caught my edit.

I originally thought it would probably work, no problem.


Then I realized that you would be cloning to an external--that may be a non-starter.

Cloning is a direct realtime transfer of an OS from drive A to drive B, with no intervening image.

In imaging, you make an image file of drive A and save it on drive B, and then restore the image file on B to some other drive.

Cloning is normally used when people want to move to a larger hard drive, just as you are talking about.

But, I usually think of it as a desktop PC with 2 internal drives---no external USB stuff. The cloning program may balk when it sees that you want to clone to USB??

 

[GamerKingFaiz]

Really? The instructional video on the Seagate website shows using a USB with an enclosure.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Then go for it. As I said, I wasn't sure if the app would balk.

 

[Night Hawk]

I think you would need a go between drive for storage and restoration of a drive image. You could Seagate's version of Acronis if they have their own version of that program available to create the image and later try restoring it to the replacement 160gb.

A better alternative however would be creating the set of recovery disks for the factory preinstall of Windows and simply seeing a clean install using them on the 160 once installed. You can then restore any backup you make with the Windows Easy Transfer tool on the fresh install on a fresh new drive.

The 80gb like any other drive shouldn't be a problem in an external enclosure. I keep a fan cooled external enclosure here that will take both ide and sata drives for file recovery or simply wiping clean when going to refurbish an old case. Actually running a quick temp install of the 32bit 7 on one now for a few days.

 

[GamerKingFaiz]

What's with all this imaging talk?

What's so bad about cloning?!

 

[Night Hawk]

Direct cloning from an 80gb to a lager 160gb can easily run into problems especially when you are attempting all that with an OEM preinstall. With a working image tucked away however you can wait to restore that when and if you decide to create a set of recovery disks from the hidden recovery partition on the 80gb.

Once a fresh copy of Windows is on the 160gb you can try restoring the image to see if that will work out. Cloning drives is generally seen as having the best results between two identical drives on systems running completely identical hardwares. You see that more often for commercial interests who have their own volume licenses at play there.

 

[GamerKingFaiz]

Direct cloning from an 80gb to a lager 160gb can easily run into problems especially when you are attempting all that with an OEM preinstall.

The 80 GB is using an upgraded version of Windows 7, it originally came with Windows Vista. And what problems can be ran into?

With a working image tucked away however you can wait to restore that when and if you decide to create a set of recovery disks from the hidden recovery partition on the 80gb.

What I don't get about this whole process is I have the 160 GB installed in the laptop, how I am I supposed to access the 80 GB to create recovery discs? Isn't it only going to be seen as a USB device when in the enclosure?

And by the way, the recovery partition is not hidden at all, I have a separate D drive in My Computer that takes up about 10 GB, and I'm sure it has the Vista recovery drives.

Once a fresh copy of Windows is on the 160gb you can try restoring the image to see if that will work out. Cloning drives is generally seen as having the best results between two identical drives on systems running completely identical hardwares. You see that more often for commercial interests who have their own volume licenses at play there.

So, what I am understanding from this is: with the 80 GB hard drive still installed in my laptop I will make an image of it on the 160 GB (using the enclosure and some sort of software, you recommended Acronis, of which I hope the free trial works), then I will switch out the hard drives at this point there will be no OS on the 160 GB, but an image file. What exactly do I do from here?

Install Windows 7 from the disc I have using the boot from CD option in the BIOS?
Let the laptop boot from the hard drive and recover the image by itself?
Or something else?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

So, what I am understanding from this is: with the 80 GB hard drive still installed in my laptop I will make an image of it on the 160 GB (using the enclosure and some sort of software, you recommended Acronis, of which I hope the free trial works), then I will switch out the hard drives at this point there will be no OS on the 160 GB, but an image file. What exactly do I do from here?

Install Windows 7 from the disc I have using the boot from CD option in the BIOS?
Let the laptop boot from the hard drive and recover the image by itself?
Or something else?

This might work if you want to use imaging, not cloning:

Put the RMAed 160 back in the enclosure.

Split it into 2 partitions, lets call them A and B

Fire up the Seagate imaging tool. Make a rescue disk with it (probably Linux-based). Make an image of the 80 GB and store it on the external on partition A.

Swap drives. The 160 is now inside your PC.

Boot from your rescue disk and restore the image from partition A to partition B. If successful, partition B would be your new C drive.

That may work OK.

Cloning may work OK.

You are just going to have find out. Understand that neither cloning or imaging is a sure-fire operation. Back up all your data before trying either.

 

[GamerKingFaiz]

Boot from your rescue disk and restore the image from partition A to partition B. If successful, partition B would be your new C drive.

That may work OK.

Cloning may work OK.

You are just going to have find out. Understand that neither cloning or imaging is a sure-fire operation.

And then would I format the Partition A and I would have more free space correct?

And sure neither is a sure-fire operation, but my original 80 GB hard drive can not be effected negatively by either cloning or imaging correct? Let's say something happens and the 160 GB hard drive does not work correctly anymore, the 80 GB hard drive will still have all the data on it like normal, even after the image/clone, correct?

Also, I think I'm going to try the cloning process first, as there are a lot of Youtube videos showing it, including this CNET video:

 

[Night Hawk]

Hey guys, I have a 160 GB Samsung external HDD that I sent into RMA, and I was thinking when I got it back I'd replace it with my notebook's 80 GB Seagate HDD.

My question is, can I simply use the enclosure (which connects via USB) and some cloning software (such as Seagate's DiscWizard software) to transfer over all the data (files, applications, OS, etc.) to the external HDD and then simply put the external inside the laptop, and use the old HDD as an external?

Is this possible, and if there are any better options (such as better cloning programs), please let me know.

Direct cloning from an 80gb to a lager 160gb can easily run into problems especially when you are attempting all that with an OEM preinstall.

The 80 GB is using an upgraded version of Windows 7, it originally came with Windows Vista. And what problems can be ran into?

With a working image tucked away however you can wait to restore that when and if you decide to create a set of recovery disks from the hidden recovery partition on the 80gb.

What I don't get about this whole process is I have the 160 GB installed in the laptop, how I am I supposed to access the 80 GB to create recovery discs? Isn't it only going to be seen as a USB device when in the enclosure?

And by the way, the recovery partition is not hidden at all, I have a separate D drive in My Computer that takes up about 10 GB, and I'm sure it has the Vista recovery drives.

Once a fresh copy of Windows is on the 160gb you can try restoring the image to see if that will work out. Cloning drives is generally seen as having the best results between two identical drives on systems running completely identical hardwares. You see that more often for commercial interests who have their own volume licenses at play there.

So, what I am understanding from this is: with the 80 GB hard drive still installed in my laptop I will make an image of it on the 160 GB (using the enclosure and some sort of software, you recommended Acronis, of which I hope the free trial works), then I will switch out the hard drives at this point there will be no OS on the 160 GB, but an image file. What exactly do I do from here?

Install Windows 7 from the disc I have using the boot from CD option in the BIOS?
Let the laptop boot from the hard drive and recover the image by itself?
Or something else?

Now that was the first mention of already having the 160gb drive installed internally since you had only mentioned rmaing the external drive and was waiting for the replacement.

If you had made an image prior to removing the 80gb you would now be running the Backup & Recovery's restore option following the clean install on the 160gb to see the image replace that with all the original files and settings returned but on a totally different drive.

As far as use of the 80gb in the external casing that won't last long as you now have a larger drive internally where the 80gb being used for storage will fill up faster much faster actually. Most opt to buy a larger drive then the OS for that purpose plus the models used in these external enclosures is typically the low ender models not the mid to best model series each company offers.

For WD drives the Blue and Black edition or RE enterprise if not Raptor models would be choice for the OS while the Green Power energy saver line is the economy class not the performance series. Likewise Seagate and other brands see their low end stuff used as storage where they can offer the larger drive capacities as well.

 

[GamerKingFaiz]

Now that was the first mention of already having the 160gb drive installed internally since you had only mentioned rmaing the external drive and was waiting for the replacement.

Okay, if there is any confusion: I have right at this very moment a 80 GB Seagate hard drive, that is what came stock with my laptop.

I had a Samsung external hard drive which I used via USB. It died, I have sent it in to RMA, waiting for it's return.

Upon it's return, I would like to somehow get all the data (includes files/folders, programs/applications, and the OS, etc.) transferred exactly over to the 160 GB and put that into my laptop.

I will then take the old 80 GB and use that as an external hard drive.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

And then would I format the Partition A and I would have more free space correct?

And sure neither is a sure-fire operation, but my original 80 GB hard drive can not be effected negatively by either cloning or imaging correct? Let's say something happens and the 160 GB hard drive does not work correctly anymore, the 80 GB hard drive will still have all the data on it like normal, even after the image/clone, correct?

You could then reformat A and continue with 2 partitions on the 160. Or you could wipe out partition A and reallocate the space to C and end up with a single 160 gig partition on C.

I would never say your 80 GB drive could not be affected. When you start in on this stuff anything can happen and you best plan for the worst case (back up data). It SHOULDN'T be affected, but who knows.

You will probably be faced with some cryptic menu choices and check boxes as you proceed. Just make note of the choices made. If it doesn't work with a certain set of choices, retry with other choices.

You may have a problem with partition sizes if you image rather than clone. The image program is probably going to want to restore to a partition at least as large as the source partition. The source partition is 80. So it might want to see a destination partition of more than 80. Not sure how that will work. It might regard the source partition as only the size of the occupied space (less than 80), rather than the size of the entire partition (80). So there is always going to be some question as to what will actually happen as you begin. If you had a lot of experience with the imaging app, you would know going in, but that isn't the case here.

 

[GamerKingFaiz]

Alright, very cool. Is there any reason to maybe use a program that has a better reputation such as Acronis?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Seagate has a version of Acronis available on the Seagate website for no charge.

I assume that is what you are using?

I don't think it has any shortcomings compared to the "real" Acronis, but if you are concerned about that, you should be able to download a 30 day trial of the real Acronis from the Acronis web site and use that.

Me? I'd use the Seagate and not bother with the real Acronis unless the Seagate version failed---and even then I don't know if it would matter.

 

[Phone Man]

Alright, very cool. Is there any reason to maybe use a program that has a better reputation such as Acronis?

The Seagate cloning software is made by Acronis so should be very reliable.

Jim

 

[GamerKingFaiz]

Alright, awesome! I will definitely be cloning the drive with the Seagate software when my RMA drive is returned to me.

I will post my results here then.

 

[Night Hawk]

Actually storing the image on the second partition for restoration on the first is how that should go. If you nuke the first expansion of the second into that space requires moving the second back first and then expanding out to fill the entire drive. That's an additional time consuming effort.

The free version of Acronis provided by WD or Seagate works as it should while simply not seeing all of the option the full retail version has. The live cd however will be needed since you won't have a second Windows installed to run the restoration to the 160gb once in.

As for the size of the image you can also use the Windows Easy Transfer to make a backup of the select files and folders as well as settings to store on the second partition you would see on the 160 in case the restoration fails. Once a clean install was seen and programs were on fresh you would simply restore the backup for files, folders, and settings.

On comparison for programs other then the image creation tool provided in 7 Acronis comes out better then Paragon and other softwares and has always received a good rep.