Disable forever. "Special permissions"

[dark41]

The full administrator account has merit, if you haven't already tried it.

Besides helping me run my custom computer business, my wife is IT for an aged care facility chain. First thing she did was try that logging on with the full adminstrator account and taking ownership, but didn't solve her problem. She also tried to take ownership manually. (She tends to feel insulted when suggesting scripts to her as I think she's still secretly in love with DOS, but I prefer anything that makes my life easier.)

As I said, there's 2 different things going on here with ownership. The first problem is folders/files that were created before an upgrade, or from another OS on a dual boot system. For those taking ownership usually works fine with the provided user/administrator accounts (have to turn on administrator as MS for whatever reason decided to leave it off by default). The full administrator usually works when that doesn't.

The second problem is corrupted data by Win 7 on random folders/files that were created on Win 7 with both user and administrator accounts. No fix that I've seen to date solves that, and its happening more often than people may realize. We even tried attaching the hard drive to another system as a data drive and logging in as full administrator. The files read fine, but can't be edited, moved, nor removed.

The only other thing I can offer Filmguy is to try and install over the top as full Administrator to add the missing files (uninstall). If it works, then you may be able to uninstall and start over (I've seen that before too occasionally). We have CS4 installed correctly on a couple systems with Win 7 64 bit. I don't know of an Adobe program that is not (supposedly) supported with Win 7 yet, but I could be wrong. Hope you get it sorted out.

 

[Jaxryley]

Have you tried SubInAC to reset permissions?

Tried it a while ago on a Vista install and it worked ok and up to you if you wanna give it a go?
Reset the entire registry permissions to defaults | Windows Reference

 

[Lithare]

I may have overlooked a comment like this, but I noticed when messing with permissions on my program files folders that one of them had absolutely no permissions. Neither admin nor my forced user account had permission. Not sure when that happened, and I'm not really at a point where I'm willing to wipe and reinstall everything. But, as already mentioned, this has made me seriously reconsider XP.

 

[FILMGUY]

Have you tried SubInAC to reset permissions?

Tried it a while ago on a Vista install and it worked ok and up to you if you wanna give it a go?
Reset the entire registry permissions to defaults | Windows Reference

Don't waste your time with that unless of course the issue could be solved via a right click in the registry anyway. I didn't bother posting before out of frustration; of course I am the only user of ANY KIND; the Administrator. I didn't have to run a cmd prompt when I installed the OS to know that it was a good idea anyway after the initial issue(s)... Pretty simple, on install, log in as username "dumb" go to Administrative Tools> Local Security Policy and enable the Administrator's account, then go Switch Users, log in as the Administrator and delete username "dumb" and proceed; takes what perhaps 30 seconds???


SubInAC will net you results in W7 x64 only for things that as Administrator you can already change in the registry, for everything else it calls an error. Also, pay attention if you run this, (at least the script I picked up on...) since the registry refuses to allow it permission to change a good deal of the permissions and it will keep returning errors, it then ends up as an infinite loop, so if you run it and have a pile of errors, watch to see if you have made it "back around again" and manually drop out of the operation... I realized I could have added a break point or other function to drop out of the operation easily in that script, that is utterly pointless when it has no gains with respect to the permissions issues...

SubInAC can be quite useful in some cases though, it's just not going to fix the root source of the permissions problem that can crop up in W7 x64 and won't do anything for it once it has occurred as well...

 

[NZKFC]

To the guys with the Win7 problems,

You seem to be acting/talking to everyone else here as if we were Bill Gates himself, or the code monkeys who coded up the functions....

If you have issues with something we are here to help, we don't have the master code book infront of us to dealve into the unknown and find a fix for you, so step back a bit and start posititvly trying ALL suggestions or giving us more information to work with then yelling at us like some helpdesk jock at Microsoft.

Also nothing is stopping you from running XP, out of all the people I know who have gone to Win7 none of them have permission issues, some of them have had ownership issues but that was resolved by either adding permissions in with admin account or using the above suggested right click "Take Ownership" function which was also an issue in Vista. Some people get to technical when installing things that they start to modify and change things they shouldn't and make things complicated for themselves.

Have you tried making a new partitition and installing win7 again and seeing if the same issue exists?

Now...... can we have some screenshots or something, yes you might of been in the industry for years and have a doctrate in IT blah blah blah but even the best miss key parts and usually is a simplilst thing.

Thanks.

 

[dark41]

To the guys with the Win7 problems,

You seem to be acting/talking to everyone else here as if we were Bill Gates himself, or the code monkeys who coded up the functions....

If you have issues with something we are here to help, we don't have the master code book infront of us to dealve into the unknown and find a fix for you, so step back a bit and start posititvly trying ALL suggestions or giving us more information to work with then yelling at us like some helpdesk jock at Microsoft.

Also nothing is stopping you from running XP, out of all the people I know who have gone to Win7 none of them have permission issues, some of them have had ownership issues but that was resolved by either adding permissions in with admin account or using the above suggested right click "Take Ownership" function which was also an issue in Vista. Some people get to technical when installing things that they start to modify and change things they shouldn't and make things complicated for themselves.

Have you tried making a new partitition and installing win7 again and seeing if the same issue exists?

Now...... can we have some screenshots or something, yes you might of been in the industry for years and have a doctrate in IT blah blah blah but even the best miss key parts and usually is a simplilst thing.

Thanks.

I didn't talk down to anyone, so there's no reason for anyone to feel that they've been taken to task for not having a solution. And while this is a nice forum specific to Win 7, I use many more resources than this, and none have been able to fix the problem either. So no need for anyone to feel bad for not having a solution.

However, I did point out (and I believe justifiably so) that posts like yours (which offer no solution and fail to acknowledge that the problem exists because you haven't seen it "yet") are numerous and worthless. Not to mention that posts such as yours are antagonizing, when they suggest there's a "simple fix" for a problem they've never seen and thus, never corrected themselves.

Now you've been taken to task, and not because you don't know how to fix the issue nor because you had anything to do with it's existence, but because you have the audacity to infer that screenshots or something else would have allowed you to come up with a "simplistic" (I expect that's the word you were searching for) solution. That's just silly. You're also a day late and a dollar short to this party.

A screenshot would have shown exactly what I described (regular folders/files), and the normal ownership error messages that I posted. Every time she (my wife) took ownership, it showed that the new ownership had taken (administrator, Des, full administrator, etc.,) and still refused to let her move/edit/delete the folder/files in question when logged on with that owner (both immediately after taking ownership and after rebooting). That's why I didn't see a point in posting a screen shot. The only thing it would have achieved is proving that I wasn't making this up. Frankly, anyone who thinks it didn't happen the way I said that it did - isn't worth my time to respond to anyway.

She has now formatted for the 4th time on Win 7 including beta, RC, and final release versions twice (the 2nd time on the RTM version to get rid of that problem so obviously that particular folder is gone now and lost forever) but creating a new partition and formatting is a work around, not a fix. On my system I've simply reloaded a working image of the OS from a week earlier on the 2 occasions I've run into it. But again that's a work around, not a fix.

Based upon the facts that:
* I've seen this twice and the wife has seen it once, all in a year.
* I have a couple customers who are having the the same issue now.
* The google hits are becoming more and more numerous about this problem, with more and more not being able to resolve it.

...I believe its only a matter of time before enough people run into it for MS to address it. Have patience, you're time may well be coming. And when you get it, hopefully MS will have a patch in place that makes it a "simple fix" for you, as there is no such simple fix available now.

 

[FILMGUY]

This is not all too surprising to me... I would have to agree with dark here. I do not think I said anything that was targeted at anyone in particular and nothing but mere reiteration of the simple fact(s) I stated before.

My statements sadly were proven throughout afterward. I do not doubt it is easy to think 1) the problem is unlikely to exist if you have not experienced it. 2) Additionally, here come the people making assumptions that it might be fixed somehow simply and it cannot. 3) Now we have someone getting bent for no reason trying to call myself and others out and acting the fool for no reason; that is absurd.

A screen-shot of a failed event log that lists proof of my statements of failed registry permissions upon installation, a debug dump, what, what would it take? These things only would reinforce the very simple statement made by myself and others that have experienced this issue that in fact it can occur, so in essence, prove that we are not lying and I know I have no time or need to do such a thing as it is absolutely absurd.

This is a fine resource. To make the assertion that in 30 years the only resource I might draw on is a forum that is how old??? OK. There is an issue with the OS. What it is exactly is being researched by myself, colleagues and others in the industry. I am still convinced that while the root cause is within the OS, in order to encounter the issue, it appears not only from myself, but as well having colleagues replicate the issue, that "some" combinations of software installations are unaffected by the issue. We continue to be unable to reproduce this issue in any way in Windows Server 2008 R2...

When individuals write posts such as the individual above did, you not only do you embarrass yourself, but you demean and lower the entire community here. Please in future attempt to limit yourself to productive comments only; personal attacks will score you no points with me and I doubt anyone else within the community...

 

[Zomby88]

Ya , you tell em ! But seriously , I would like to know why we can`t get a check mark next to special permissions ( W7 Ult ) or in the the grayed out boxes. Why does the OS even show them?

 

[FILMGUY]

Hey zomby, I have run into that myself and sort of wrote it off entirely - bigger fish to fry you know...

If anyone noticed, there were two (2) hotfixes published last week and after deciding to brave the waters again on of all things a very important machine here, I have not had any issues since installing those; but did confirm failure on this machine with the same procedure before, so its anyone's guess what the deal is. MS is keeping this thing under wraps big time as it has affected some of the largest companies out there and they really don't want to take the rap for it. I still as of yet have to get any useful and straight forward info from my contacts at Microsoft, not only to confirm or deny the issue; likewise they won't say what those two hotfixes were for either other than their normal vagueness...

I think their plan is to let this fly under the radar, for as one can see from this and other forums, the vast majority do not believe such a problem is either "real" or even possible...

Hmmmm.....

Oh, BTW "zomby" I'll take a cool-ass .gif like that for an avatar - I should have something fitting, but it doesn't pay...

 

[dark41]

the vast majority do not believe such a problem is either "real" or even possible...

And a growing minority are posting the problem on various forums only to be jilted by the "wiser" majority. Some things never change.

 

[FILMGUY]

the vast majority do not believe such a problem is either "real" or even possible...

And a growing minority are posting the problem on various forums only to be jilted by the "wiser" majority. Some things never change.

Oh, don't I know it!!! Have you or your partners had torubles since the two "mysterious" hotfixes last week??? I feel like I am playing with dynamite running a 10K machine with W7 x64 ENT... IF it craps out on this as it has before, I am sooooo screwed!

Funny thing is, Acronis crapped out on me and while it still performs the backups, it gives me an error and won't create any tasks. That scares the crap out of me too... (No fix for that and I have not the time to spend another week reinstalling from scratch as it hosed my original back-ups darn it!!!)

Hope all is well for you. Guess it is just you, me and my colleagues that "know" there was or is still an issue with this...

 

[dark41]

I run dual boot with XP Pro 32 bit and Win 7 Ult 64 bit, and keep my data on a separate partition and backed up every other day or so. No way I'd run Win 7 exclusively at this point as I think our server (2003 SBS) has some issues with it. I haven't run into any more files that can't be edited so far (knock on wood), but...

Yesterday I got a BSOD on Win 7 when shutting down. Upon restarting, I couldn't log onto the network, error about the system had lost the trust relationship with the server. I disconnected the LAN and logged in. Reconnected the LAN and rebooted, and this time it logged in fine. However, I can no longer get email from my main POP3 account via Exchange. Hotmail accounts are working correctly and I can send via exchange and POP3, but cannot receive. I really depend on email and need to check several times per day. We've worked on it intermittently for 2 days with no resolution so far. Really hoping I don't have to make a new profile, but its not looking good at this point. In the meantime I don't really mind using XP, as I probably still use it more than Win 7 anyway for various reasons.

Which version of Acronis TI are you using? I'm not happy to read that you're experiencing problems. I use True Image Home 2009 and haven't had a problem with Win 7 so far. Acronis claims that version 2010 is Win 7 compatible, but I won't upgrade unless forced to. Have put 2010 on a couple different systems for customers. And of course once again the new version can't use images created with the older version, which doesn't impress me much either. Also think they've lost the plot on the "One Click Backup", but maybe that's just my own personal preferences for choosing where to put the backup rather than have Acronis decide for me.

The wife's Win 7 Ult 64 bit system is experiencing some strange problems too, but nothing major at this point. She usually connects to it from work with TeamViewer, but today it wouldn't connect (problem isn't the network or modem as she connected to the server and my system without problems). Lots of little things like that which seem to clear up by themselves as randomly as they appear.

I know there's some bugs in Win 7, but no idea what is related to patches/updates or just the OS in general. Honestly, I've been running Win 7 on several machines here since the beta, and problems seem to be happening more now than they were with the beta. I hadn't seen a BSOD on any version of Win 7 until yesterday.

 

[FILMGUY]

Hey, your network issue makes me think of something I have run into before (and for fear of doing just what we have accused others of, suggestions that may have nothing to do with your issue... but here goes...)

You don't by any chance have a VM installed on that machine, I am doubting it with what you are using it for, but I have had Windows Virtual PC randomly and permanently hose a system's networking WELL after installing it, even with NO VM or in Win 7, XP mode or anything; just a thought.

I hate to be this way and I love all of the constructive informative posts you have made here, but with regard to both of our issues, I would recommend that you PM me and perhaps in some of your "spare time" (like anyone has any of that...) we work together toward solving all of these "impossible/non-existent issues" - then if we can come up with some good data, you or whoever can update the community here. I can say from experience elsewhere and within this thread as I know you are aware that you and I trying to work constructively and logically without a bunch of added BS, simply may be impossible on any forum with these sorts of issues.

PM me and I'll give you my domain's email as well as if we need any real-time, could go Windows Live (or dead... ) Of course that only is if you really want to work toward the root causes of these things (and not saying you do not; but sometimes when it is possible, which is usually next to never for me, it is easier to "cut your losses" and reinstall.

The Ent. server I am typing on right now as well as running a giant mix dump from 24 channels of ALESIS ADAT digital multi-track recorders (yes I am online everyone doing so...) has a boat-load of installed applications, let me look at it...381GB worth of applications - and people want to post "OH I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU DON'T SHUT UP AND JUST REINSTALL!!!" Well there is their answer. Can you afford an extra two weeks of down time dicking around with installations and configurations it takes to install all of that crap; I know I can't and for anyone reading, NO, those aren't samples, film or video, that is the OS and applications only and there are still a few more things yet to go on that I have not had occasion to use... All media, film, video, audio is stored in gigantic 10+ TB redundant RAID arrays separately from the OS.

PM me if you like and we will hook up and give the community a report of our efforts. 30 years doing this IS a long time, but it MOST CERTAINLY DOES NOT MEAN ONE HAS ANSWERS!!! - Especially to this insanity which makes zero sense. For safety sake in your case, if you "HAD" to reinstall, I would likely chose Windows Server 2008 or if everything is compatible, I had no troubles with R2, but remember it is no speed demon being the "latest and greatest" plus a server OS; I mean it will perform operations like mad, but just never re-boot the thing... (I have one data-center here that has Windows Server 2008 x64 Enterprise installed on it that has not seen a re-boot in 7 months!!!)

Let me know what you want to do if you think we can help one another and hopefully ultimately the entire "disbelieving" establishment in the end that would be a service to everyone...:sarc: Likewise, if not best of luck, I have no answers with asking the right questions and then, like in my case (and perhaps yours...) I don't for this business as of yet myself, accept for the two mystery permissions hotfixes published two weeks ago...

Kind regards,
FILMGUY

 

[dark41]

I don't have any virtual anything installed on my system. My wife has just installed XP in a virtual drive on her system, but I prefer the dual boot. She'll find out why if/when her new installation of Win 7 becomes unbootable (she'll lose both OS's).

The folder that she was trying to backup, was for a planned format/install of final release Win 7 Ult 64 bit (before her RC version expired). She put it off as long as she could while trying to find a fix, but couldn't wait any longer. So that issue is gone for now (and so is the folder that she couldn't backup).

We're system builders, so need to struggle through these things in order to support our customers. Going to another OS just isn't an option.

Time is what I have the least of. I read and post to forums to relax before bed, which is usually between 11PM and 3AM (Australia time). Honestly, the last thing I want to do then is brainstorm solutions for computer problems (after spending all day every day doing just that). But I do appreciate the offer.

 

[FILMGUY]

I understand Sir, as a rule I don't post to forums anymore anyway for I do not find what frequently goes on as a "leisure" activity - look at the several tongue lashings dealt out to the two of us in this very thread...

I have RC'ed ALPA'ed and BETA'ed for MS, but WOULD never install an OS until months after its RTM. In fact, Win 7 is the first MS OS since DOS (and then things did not work as they do now...) that I have not waited for the first service pack to be released before installing one of their OS's for "real" use. A ballsy move on my part and I paid the price.

I am with you on the don't have time and couldn't care less if the issue has been fixed and my insiders have finally broken down and admitted it was addressed; let us all hope that the "fix" is permanent and never affects anyone else in the manner it has myself, you or your wife.

Australia? Great, give my regards to Zoe Bell - Oh, wait that's Auckland New Zealand! My bad... Wish I was where you are right now, Geographically and as of late, likely politically too!

Regards,
FILMGUY

 

[dark41]

Filmguy,

Finally, a possible fix! Courtesy of Seseberg on MS Technet forums:

Cannot access folders and files even with Administrator rights

Its a 3rd party driver filter called Gain Access Tool. Too late for me to try it (unless and until I have the problem again) but if you haven't given it a go, might be worth a shot. At any rate, we can add him to the list of people who have had the same problem.

 

[FILMGUY]

Thanks!

Thank you Dark! While I am with you, I have avoided the issue by either reinstalling entirely after the mystery hotfixes (for which now 4 internals at MS won't go on the record as saying such, but confirmed that some of those three [or more] were to do with the symptoms you and I experienced...) or by entirely avoiding the OS altogether.

Windows 7 I think is quite a leap for MS and I am not here to condemn them for it. Likewise, I felt although I was admittedly sad and confused by this mysterious permissions issue that 99.9% of the populous never saw and frankly likely never thought truly existed, that the WIN 7 release IMHO has been the most trouble-free release of any Microsoft Operating System EVER and I am told their support call volumes reinforce that (save the usual lack of third parties catching up...)

I indeed will head over and grab that and take a look. Besides, it sounds to me like something any good developer should have for those days when you are half awake and run an idiotic command. (In 30 years I have [had] NEVER had a virus, so one day I decided to look at one someone had gotten that was particularly nasty to see exactly what exploits these hackers were targeting and how... Long story short, I went to drag and drop it from a folder into a VM for testing and ended up double-clicking it... Oops!)

Thanks again, I know I sure appreciate it even if no one else cares or needs it. Additionally, it helps reinforce that it is not simply you and I that have either made up said symptoms, or are too incompetent to take such steps as knowing how to log in as the "real" Administrator, taking ownership, or changing file permissions! (When someone posted that, I wanted to ask how they figured out how to become a "pseudo-Admin" anyway???) Doh!

Take care and if you are like me, you will do nothing anymore without continual Acronis back-ups, which while is best-practice anyway, perhaps both myself and your wife needed a little lesson in complacency and KARMA needed to teach us!

 

[Nizz]

Read only....

Dude...

My win 7 has put a read only on every file i have on my local disk... and i cant turn it off... this is preventing me from craking my games so that i dont have to bother with the CD's the hole time... I just am really annoyed now.... I couldnt really see the answer eariler in the posts...

My windows XP did the same thing...

 

[hclarkjr]

After a fresh install I go to Local Security Policy - Local Policies - Security Options - Accounts: Administrator account status - Enabled.

Reboot back into the full blown admin account and delete the the account you are forced to create at install.

No more right clicking and selecting "Run as admin" which suits me fine.

this is something i am thinking about doing, what are the pros and cons of doing this?

 

[dark41]

Filmguy,
I'm a system builder and computer repairer, so I (intentionally) get viruses all the time in order to learn how to disable them for customers. Goes without saying that I rely tremendously on Acronis TI backups, but I said it anyway.

After a fresh install I go to Local Security Policy - Local Policies - Security Options - Accounts: Administrator account status - Enabled.

Reboot back into the full blown admin account and delete the the account you are forced to create at install.

No more right clicking and selecting "Run as admin" which suits me fine.

this is something i am thinking about doing, what are the pros and cons of doing this?

Pros are that you'll never need to right click anything to "run as administrator", if that's an issue for you.

Cons are that if you do something silly to an OS file, the file structure, or other (many of which MS hasn't protected from the Administrator account), it can't be undone. Also there have been times that I've copied and pasted one profile to another when running into problems, which will no longer be an option with that method. Try at your own risk.

But the problem we're (Filmguy and myself) describing wouldn't be effected in any way, shape, or form by which account you use to log on. I could take ownership of these files/folders as administrator and still do nothing more than read them.