Dual OS boot vs Virtual vs Separate machines?

[markg2]

This post is both Win7/Win10 & may be in the wrong section...

Problem: Ancient Quicken ver will only run consistent on Win7. Cannot upgrade Quicken ver (tried). Current install is on wife's Lenovo ThinkCenter. We need to move her daily work OS to Win10 for obvious reasons. In doing so, she also needs a quicker machine.

Given limited knowledge--I see 3 options and look to you all for most sensible approach.

1. Replacement machine dual boot Win7 (for Quicken)/Win10 (have no clue how if Lenovo won't do)
2. Replacement machine Win10 with virtual Win7 for Quicken (have no clue how if Lenovo won't do)
3. Replacement machine Win10, then use the ThinkCenter Win7 strictly for Quicken. Easiest for me but cumbersome is an understatement.

One further wrinkle--I'd really like to get away from the 'clunky' footprint of a full size machine. Her machine needs a primary SSD or similar and 2nd mechanical drive for images. I see 2 options:

1. A mini/compact desktop (not great given surface area real estate), or
2. A laptop with external monitor and external keyboard. Keep the laptop closed, keyboard on top of the laptop and the only reason to open the laptop would be to power on/off.

All comments appreciated!

Mark

 

[dg1261]

Given limited knowledge--I see 3 options and look to you all for most sensible approach.

1. Replacement machine dual boot Win7 (for Quicken)/Win10
2. Replacement machine Win10 with virtual Win7 for Quicken
3. Replacement machine Win10, then use the ThinkCenter Win7 strictly for Quicken.

I don't like Option 3. It's just too clunky. I'd use Option 2 before I'd use Option 3.

Beware the potential pitfalls of Option 1. Dual-booting still requires you to install Win7 on the new hardware, but many new machines don't support Win7. People may suggest all sorts of workarounds, but it depends on the machine and sometimes they don't work. Even when they do, it can be a major hassle you may be reluctant to tackle.

I recently used Option 2 for a client who needed to keep using his old QuickBooks 2005 on a new Win10 machine. Old QB versions won't work on Win10 because they use Flash, which W10 now actively disables.

However, bear in mind that using a VM complicates a few things, such as printing. It can be done, but consider how tech savvy your wife may be when faced with such complications. (My QB2005 strategy was to print its reports to PDF, then move the PDF from VM to host, where it could be printed like any normal PDF. Yeah, it's kind of a kludge, but when faced with the alternative of replacing it with the new, subscription-based QuickBooks, it's a kludge the client was willing to put up with.)

Which version of Quicken do you have? Have you considered a fourth option: running old Quicken on Win10?

You say "Ancient Quicken ver will only run consistent on Win7", but what issues are you running into? If they're not that serious, Option 4 could be the least bothersome of four imperfect solutions.

Perhaps it depends on which Quicken features you need to use. I've been able to install Quicken 2002 on Win10, but I don't use some features like Bill Minder or Quick Entry. (I also don't use Quicken to print checks, although I expect it would probably work. I write so few checks that it takes less time to do that manually.)

And, of course, none of the "online" functions work ... but you probably already knew that, since that's not OS related. That's just Intuit's arbitrary strategy of disabling built-in downloading from financial institutions after 3 years in an attempt to force users to buy new Quicken versions.

 

[markg2]

Her Quicken version is 2003. I've tried twice to update her data going through 3 data conversions to get to (the last attempt) 2017. Two reasons to do so: 1) ability to update the portfolio to current pricing vs. delayed/staggered updates via statements and 2) run on Win10.

After both data conversion attempts there was data loss and that's unacceptable.

I've tried installing 2003 on 3 different of our Win10 laptops (her Dell, my ancient, rejuvenated T61 and newer P50). 2003 would simply not load once installed on the P50, will only open a data file from USB flash drive on the Dell now after working fine from the drive for a month or so and then properly loading on the T61. That inconsistency of operation is an unacceptable risk going forward as the sole method of personal finance/bookkeeping.

If I've learned anything about tech through too many years--Typically, once in the weeds, shinny fancy stuff seldom works as advertised. And that's why I asked you all about the VM and dual boot--Thank you.

Btw, not as a method for everyday but general info--With the paid Reflect Home version (although I haven't tied it yet) I supposedly can load an image of her Win7 in a virtual machine on my P50 and run 2003 as if on her machine--frankly, more a novelty than functional concept.

And we absolutely will not do Quicken online--full stop. I do not trust the private equity that purchased Quicken from Intuit any more than I do Intuit (QB--a whole nother story!) with our personal financial data. I will spare you the rant, my opinion/sad commentary on how those 2 companies along with (in the least) Symantec/Norton (which I had used religiously since DOS) have become almost intolerably 'slimy' in their $ focus--and this is from a guy who started a construction company from zilch and did fairly well--a capitalist at heart with a heart! End mini rant<g>.

All of this brings me back to the decidedly clunky, cumbersome, PITA Option 3--running 2003 on a dedicated, offline, Win7 machine. Btw, where did you get Option 4?

 

[Megahertz07]

There is a new Quicken (Starter, Deluxe, Premier) 2019 for Windows.

Personal Finance & Money Management Software | Quicken

 

[dg1261]

Btw, where did you get Option 4?

That was my addition:

Have you considered a fourth option: running old Quicken on Win10?

You say "Ancient Quicken ver will only run consistent on Win7", but what issues are you running into? If they're not that serious, Option 4 could be the least bothersome of four imperfect solutions.

But you've made it clear you've already ruled out that option:

I've tried installing 2003 on 3 different of our Win10 laptops (her Dell, my ancient, rejuvenated T61 and newer P50). 2003 would simply not load once installed on the P50, will only open a data file from USB flash drive on the Dell now after working fine from the drive for a month or so and then properly loading on the T61.

I've tried Quicken 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, and 2013, but my favorite is 2002 so I can appreciate your reluctance to ditch 2003 if you don't have to. I don't have any significant problems running 2002 on Win10, but you've made enough of a good faith effort to establish it isn't going to work for you. So, scratch Option 4.

With the paid Reflect Home version (although I haven't tied it yet) I supposedly can load an image of her Win7 in a virtual machine on my P50 and run 2003 as if on her machine [...]

You're talking about Macrium's "Redeploy to new hardware" feature. A virtual machine emulates different hardware (virtual BIOS, virtual chipset, virtual graphics card, etc.), so from Windows' point of view it appears to be a completely different computer. Macrium's "Redeploy" feature is intended to modify the hardware settings in the image or clone so Windows can "discover new hardware" when transferred to a different computer -- which a VM will appear to be.

It doesn't work 100% of the time, but it's worth a try. One big question mark is whether the cloned Windows will activate. Since a VM is effectively a different "computer", it's supposed to have its own license key. When Windows sees it's been moved from one set of hardware to another set of hardware, virtual or not, it may fail activation.

I do not trust the private equity that purchased Quicken from Intuit any more than I do Intuit (QB--a whole nother story!) with our personal financial data. I will spare you the rant, my opinion/sad commentary on how those 2 companies along with (in the least) Symantec/Norton (which I had used religiously since DOS) have become almost intolerably 'slimy' in their $ focus.

Oh, you don't need to convince me! I've had my own issues with various Intuit products (see here and here, for example).

And Symantec never was a very good company. From the beginning* Symantec's business model has always been to acquire products developed by smart people (like Peter Norton), milk the users for all they can, then discard them. Sounds like you're old enough that you may remember some of the products Symantec gobbled and ruined, such as Q&A, Central Point Backup, Act!, Norton Utilities, WinFax Pro, PowerQuest DriveImage and Partition Magic, and literally hundreds more.


* in the early 1990s the small, original Symantec company, developer of the way-ahead-of-its-time Q&A 4.0, was bought out by a group of vultures that would eventually take over Symantec's name as well, and turn it into the conglomerate it is today.

 

[markg2]

There is a new Quicken (Starter, Deluxe, Premier) 2019 for Windows.

Personal Finance & Money Management Software | Quicken

The problem isn't the cost of a current/newer Quicken version, the problem is maintaining data integrity after a minimum of 3 data conversions required when transitioning from 2003 to (our last attempt) 2017.

That's a whale of a lot of data. Quicken doesn't tell you precisely where the conversion problem occurred--unacceptable.

 

[markg2]

dg1261--

A few questions--

1. I don't suppose you have any idea why a Win10 Dell laptop, up to date OS, 2003 installed decided one day to 'not see' or 'can't load' the data file (pasted from her desktop 2003) whether it be on the Dell desktop, the default Quicken preferred location, downloads... wherever, but will load from a USB flash drive?

2. Re your Win10/2002 experience--I take it you've had 2002 installed on the Win10 machine for at least several months AND through a few Win10 OS updates and 2002 no worse for the wear?

3. If so, I wonder if we could go 'backwards' from 2003 to 2002 and have better luck with Win10?

 

[dg1261]

I don't suppose you have any idea why a Win10 Dell laptop, up to date OS, 2003 installed decided one day to 'not see' or 'can't load' the data file (pasted from her desktop 2003) whether it be on the Dell desktop, the default Quicken preferred location, downloads... wherever, but will load from a USB flash drive?

I don't know why that would happen. My experience with Win10 is limited; I continue to use Win7 for myself but my wife's laptop has Win10. My main objection to Win10 is the constant buggy updates. You never know from one month to the next whether some untested update is going to bork something that had until then been working. At my age, I no longer have patience for that stuff.

Re your Win10/2002 experience--I take it you've had 2002 installed on the Win10 machine for at least several months AND through a few Win10 OS updates and 2002 no worse for the wear?

I have Quicken 2002 installed on both my Win7 (where it works fine) and, for the past 18 months or so, on my wife's Win10 Pro 1909, where she uses Quicken for a few separate accounts. As much as possible, I try to limit Win10's attempts to update every month, but some updates have forced their way through.

There are a few minor annoyances with her 2002 -- such as Bill Minder doesn't work, and when you first open the program it doesn't populate the middle pane like it used to (the summary overview) until you click a tab or menu item. She doesn't use Quicken for much more than balancing the registers for a few credit card and checking accounts, though, so there may be other glitches that she just hasn't discovered. At any rate, none of the glitches have been critical for how she uses Quicken.

If so, I wonder if we could go 'backwards' from 2003 to 2002 and have better luck with Win10?

I doubt the issue is our differing versions of Quicken. I would expect 2002 would work the same as 2003, and the problem is more likely something different about your Win10 vs mine. Unfortunately, Win10 is such a moving target that I wouldn't know what that difference might be.

I might add that I've also tried 2004 and 2006 on her computer and didn't notice any extra problems beyond what 2002 had. I think they're all functionally the same, and your 2003 probably is, too. But those weren't comprehensive tests, they were only installed long enough for her to decide the extra bells and whistles in the later versions were merely annoyances to her. She didn't need garbage constantly trying to tell her her "net worth" when all she wanted to do was track a couple accounts, so we went back to 2002.

 

[file3456]

To utilize just the Win 10 computer and its speed capabilities will require you to use a virtual machine. Dual booting means the legacy OS needs to support the newer hardware. Also, dual booting is a pain when it comes to productivity since you're having to cycle back and forth between two OSs per boot. With a virtual machine you can work in the host (the main computer) and guest (the VM) at once. The problem is driver emulation. VMware does seem to have better USB emulation than others. You could take the Quicken file and use a paid for software called Transactions, convert to a format a newer version of Quicken can use, and then print from the Win 10 machine rather than from the Win 7 machine in VMware Workstation Player requiring printer USB emulation. This might be a better option because if you have to transition between the guest and host with the printer USB connection, you will have to constantly cycle between the printer being connected to the host and guest and vice versa. Or a dedicated printer connected to the VMware guest would negate that need to switch back and fourth.

Installing a virtual OS is very easy and is just point and click. Watch this video:


How to Install Windows 7 in VMware Workstation - YouTube

He's using Workstation 12 and not Workstation Player. Workstation Player is free for non commercial usage. The interface in that video is different, but it's all the same thing. Point to your Windows 7 DVD drive or ISO image of Win 7, configure the hardware to use in the VM install, (use an adequate amount of disk space) and just click install. You'll want to install VMware Tools after the OS is installed so that you can copy/paste data back and fourth between the guest and host, i.e Win 7 and Win 10.

This is just one reason why if I ran a company I would not depend on corporate made propriety software. I'd focus on open source and free solutions in every where I could providing the license allows it. Linux for the computer OS, LibreOffice in replace of M$ Office, and free open source comparable bookkeeping software. I just saw a few already at Snapfiles, and I'm sure Sourceforge and everywhere else has open source/free bookkeeping software as well. If I need to convert from a proprietary format to mine that I use in the company, I just use a paid for or free file convertor. If I'm not mistaken, the state of California or some California city is using open source office software like the aforementioned LibreOffice. Urban Dictionary: libre

LibreOffice Certification | LibreOffice - Free Office Suite - Based on OpenOffice - Compatible with Microsoft

Anyway...

Edit-

Looks like it's more than I thought, but is OpenOffice. Major OpenOffice.org Deployments - Apache OpenOffice Wiki

Who uses LibreOffice? | LibreOffice - Free Office Suite - Based on OpenOffice - Compatible with Microsoft