Solved Fresh install. Good. Attach another SSD in order to dual-boot. Busted.

[Recusant]

Hi,

I've done a long-overdue clean install of Windows 7 and everything was fine (except for the 2-day wait for updates to become available). However, now i am trying to install a second SSD for the purposes of dual booting with Linux.

Windows just refuses to boot unless i disconnect that second SSD. There is no problem with detection or me not selecting the right boot device etc. Windows tries but fails to boot.

The bootloader loads and then it tells me that there was a problem starting windows. It gives me that white on black menu with (more or less): Try to repair the startup or boot normally. Both options simply return you to the same point after only a few seconds or if Grub is installed on the other drive it will hand over to Grub after saying "Windows is loading files..." - it will not boot into Windows.. Disconnect the other SSDs and everything works fine.

I used to dual-boot with this computer with these drives.

The only thing i can think of as being different is the BIOS setting was set for HDD before and now it is SSD. This was changed after the fresh Win7 install (i didn't even know it was a thing until i was having problems). It's an ASRock Extreme6 Z77 motherboard. The SSD setting does provide improved performance over the HDD setting so i'm loathed to return to it or reinstall with the SSD setting from the beginning. Note i tried to return the motherboard to Hard Drive setting but it made no difference.



Thanks.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
I would remove the 7 ssd and then install the 2nd ssd and install linux,
I would also recommend using one of these to dual boot it makes life so much easier
Amazon.com: Vantec 2.5-Inch Dual Bay Trayless SATA III - 6G Mobile Rack (MRK-225S6-BK): Computers & Accessories

You might also end up with clock issues so refer to this
"Solved" Clock 6 hours advanced switching back to win-7 - Linux Mint Forums

Lastly updating issues
Windows Update will not update and I've tried multiple fixes

Clean install
windows update

 

[AddRAM]

Did you have the Windows drive hooked up when you installed Linux ?

 

[Recusant]

Hi,
I would remove the 7 ssd and then install the 2nd ssd and install linux,

That is on my to-do list, but i do not believe that will help me boot into Windows.

I've done a little more testing with a non-bootable HDD lying around and Windows boots fine with both attached.

I've also tried also changing cables around and that doesn't help.

I can boot into Linux SSD with Win7 SSD attached. No problems.

I've noticed in BIOS that i can set the boot device to either "Windows Boot Loader" or the actual SSD name. The actual SSD name will not allow me to boot - says along the lines of "non-bootable media, please insert blah blah". Using "Windows Boot Loader" allows me to boot (but not when i plug in the Linux SSD).

 

[Recusant]

Did you have the Windows drive hooked up when you installed Linux ?

The Linux install is pre-existing, and it works fine still.

I did not have the Linux drive installed when installing Win7. This is how i have previously done it and i didn't have a problem then.

I've re-installed Linux (different flavours) perhaps half a dozen times over the years and i've never seen this issue. I've also cloned my Win7 install from HDD to SSD to a different SSD over the years and also never had this problem.

I'm really confused. I'm not an expert but i'd probably border on a power user so i'm not a fool. But it is not often i re-install Windows from scratch so maybe times have changed and i'm just missing something obvious...

Now i did have a motherboard bios firmware update several months ago, but everything was working fine in my dual-boot arrangement.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
All I've found in the past is it's better to keep Linux and windows as far away as possible from each other easy sway does that well that goes double for 7 & 10

 

[Recusant]

Hi,
All I've found in the past is it's better to keep Linux and windows as far away as possible from each other easy sway does that well that goes double for 7 & 10

They are on different SSDs, that should be enough.

What is this "Windows Boot Loader" option in BIOS? I don't remember that before, i think it might have been introduced with the firmware update i did a few months ago. I think that might have something to do with my problems.

Question is, why would Windows see or care about what is on another SSD (with a different file system!). Why would the fact that is connected make any difference at all to Windows? What is Windows looking for?

EDIT: As my installation of Win7 was very old, it's quite possible it was first installed on legacy BIOS and not EUFI settings. It's been cloned twice but never re-installed from fresh since perhaps 3+ years ago. My brain hurts.

 

[Recusant]

Hmm... i need 3 partitions for UEFI installation of Win7? I don't believe that's what i have.
UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) - Install Windows 7 with

In the past, i must have installed Win7 under legacy/bios mode because i did not have 3 partitions. My installation media is OEM and must've been purchased in the first few months of Win7's existence - so it's very old and with no SP1+.

I'm going to try and install Win7 on a spare drive using the instructions above and try attaching other drives again and see what it does.

QUESTION: i have a legit Win7 Pro x64 disc that was downloaded from the digitalriver thing a while ago which would be much newer. Can i use that? I presume that is a retail disc though.

 

[AddRAM]

Of course you can use it.

It`s not a retail disc if you downloaded it, but there is no difference between an oem disc and a retail disc, only the activation keys are different.

You should download a fresh iso file with Service Pack 1.

I`m on my Windows 10 drive right now, and I don`t have the proper link stored, hopefully someone can post the direct Microsoft link for you to download Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64

 

[Recusant]

Of course you can use it.

It`s not a retail disc if you downloaded it, but there is no difference between an oem disc and a retail disc, only the activation keys are different.

You should download a fresh iso file with Service Pack 1.

I`m on my Windows 10 drive right now, and I don`t have the proper link stored, hopefully someone can post the direct Microsoft link for you to download Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64

Thanks - i already have the download from maybe a year ago. I got it while it was still available as i heard it was being taken down.

 

[AddRAM]

Understood

But i still don`t understand why you had any issues if you installed windows 7 on a separate drive while you had the linux drive disconnected.

You should then be able to bring up the boot menu (not the bios) to choose the other OS when you want to use it.

Setting the drive you want to boot into everyday 1st in the bios.

 

[Recusant]

I have never experienced this either. But note that the Linux SSD wasn't connected when i installed Windows (i've always removed it in the past).

From my reading around it seems that i am missing the EFI partition in Windows. It seems i need to manually do something there. I feel that might be what is screwing me up.

I'll do some installations on spare HDD tonight (i hope) and see how it goes.

 

[AddRAM]

How did you install Linux ? You only get an EFI partition with W7 is if you install to a GPT drive using UEFI

You can`t make any bios changes before you install 7, or you have to install W7 in UEFI.

However you had the bios set when you installed linux must be the same when you install 7.

But I don`t understand how W7 can boot fiine, then after you hook up the linux drive W7 won`t boot, that just doesn`t make sense.

 

[DavidE]

I agree with AddRAM - doesn't make sense.

Boot Windows with the problem drive and post a maximized/resized screen print of Disk Management (DM).
Disk Management - Post a Screen Capture Image

Then Boot Windows with the drive that works and post that DM screen print.

If that doesn't help, post screen prints booting with a MiniTool Partition Wizard Bootable CD, with all drives connected.
Bootable Partition Manager| MiniTool Partition Wizard Bootable Edition

 

[Recusant]

How did you install Linux ?

• I had Linux installed (on the other SSD) before i did a clean install of Win7. It was working perfectly well with my previous installation of Win7.
• I disconnected all drives before installing Win7 fresh.
• I would like to install Win7 using UEFI. It would not have been UEFI when i first installed it some 4 years ago so i'm inexperienced in the world of UEFI having never done it.

 

[Recusant]

I agree with AddRAM - doesn't make sense.

Boot Windows with the problem drive and post a maximized/resized screen print of Disk Management (DM).
Disk Management - Post a Screen Capture Image

If i connect the problem drive - i cannot boot windows. The Windows bootloader (not the bios/uefi boot manager) has a poo (refer much earlier).

Then Boot Windows with the drive that works and post that DM screen print.

At bottom.

If that doesn't help, post screen prints booting with a MiniTool Partition Wizard Bootable CD, with all drives connected.
Bootable Partition Manager| MiniTool Partition Wizard Bootable Edition

Bootable Partition Wizard, eh? I'll check that out in a bit.

 

[Recusant]

OK guys.

My UEFI noobness is on full display.

So... here's the summary:
1. Windows was not installed using the instructions here: UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) - Install Windows 7 with. I actually just deleted all the partitions and told Windows to sort it out - the way i've always done it.
2. This made me think that i did that wrong but it didn't seem to make any difference on my tests.
3. My original Linux installation was BIOS - not UEFI. Because i'd never done this before i didn't realise that would present a problem. It did
4. Installed a fresh copy of Ubuntu on my other SSD and this didn't go right. I missed a step that is new to UEFI, and not required for BIOS. Sigh. Followed these instructions: Dual-boot Ubuntu 14.04 & Windows 7 on a PC with 2 HDDs and UEFI firmware | LinuxBSDos.com
5. Now it all works, however oddly (at least to me) i do not see my Windows SSD or it's bootloader in the boot options. I HAVE to boot to Ubuntu SSD and select Windows from Grub menu. I can probably swap to put Windows first in the list, but then i can't get into Ubuntu without changing the Windows bootloader to give me a menu using something like EasyBCD which i'm not going to do.

I'm so inexperienced with UEFI - it's just so different to BIOS which seemed much simpler. Does anyone think that my no.1 above has anything to do with no.5? I'm surprised i can't see the Windows SSD or bootloader. I've checked the settings in the UEFI and nothing seems amiss.

Thanks to everyone who tried to assist

I won't quite mark this as solved pending a response to my final paragraph/question.

 

[DavidE]

I don't have any experience with a setup like yours.
What you can try is check the Boot Timeout in msconfig.
If it's 0, set it to 10 or more seconds.
Then reattach the Linux SSD and bootup, see if that makes a difference, so you can select the Windows SSD.

Also, have you tried using the one-time Boot option when starting the PC ?
It's some key you tap when the PC is starting to bring up a boot device selection screen.
I don't know what that key is for your PC, it's different for different motherboards.

Here's a snip from my msconfig/Boot, this PC is Legacy MBR, multi-boot Windows, all OS's on the same SSD.

 

[Recusant]

Looking further into this (lots more research and lots more experimentation) i think my motherboard has a 'limitation' (bug!). I've seen some other posts with similar, not exactly the same use-case, issues with similar vintage (some the same model) ASRock motherboards and UEFI booting.

I've managed to get it to work, from time to time, and by using rEFInd - but even that isn't robust. I reset my CMOS and the rEFInd bootloader is gone from my choices - and yet the Ubuntu one, missing for several reboots - is back!

I'm giving up and going back to BIOS mode until i can purchase newer, probably non-ASRock, hardware. Next time i'll be sure to buy a motherboard which states Linux support to start with (my ASRock did not).

 

[AddRAM]

I don`t see why you were using UEFI in the 1st place, there is no benefit to it in my opinion.

Hey I have a simple question while we`re here, if my windows drive is MBR and I install a 4 TB data drive and I initialize it GPT and chop it up to 2 partitions will windows be able to see the entire drive, or will I have to convert it to MBR ?

Thanks, Brian