i hate w10.

[Mellon Head]

I actually use both. 7 at home and 10 at work. I don't mind the operation and daily use of 10, but the constant updates are killing me. It seems that every week, the updates keep breaking things that I need to use every day, and I'm experiencing a significant loss of productivity because of it. That's the reason for my griping.

Though I dual boot at home, I rarely boot into 10, though I have moved my games and things over with Steam. They seem to run better under 10, which I like. Overall, it's a decent operating system. It's just that right now, I don't feel that it's mature enough for business use or mission critical situations. Especially in an engineering environment where some specialized, or in-house created software needs to work.

 

[drankinatty]

After having built and used everything from DOS 3.3 (remember the 33M partition size limitations, yes that's 33 Meg), and SuSE 7.0 (Air), Win10 really strikes you as just BLAND. Crystal window decorations on KDE3 were the pinnacle of transparent glass eye-candy, but Aeroglass was close behind. I know that eye-candy doesn't make a desktop, but for enthusiasts, the "Next Clean Look" was always something to look forward to. All of the windows, from XP forward, have offered a clean interface with many native or 3rd party customizations that could make the desktops look stunning, and Windows 7 was probably the high-water mark for a good looking windows desktop (as KDE 3.5.10 with Compiz-Fusion compositing desktop manager was for Linux, Gnome2 wasn't bad either, or Fluxbox, E16, FVWM, WM2 and the remaining myriad of desktops to choose from on that side of the house)

Which brings us to Win10. While capable, if you use windows occasionally, the chatty nature of the OS can leave you twiddling your fingers while it opens and closes and writes megabytes of logs, chats repeatedly with every computer on the network and goes about its normal checks of updating everything under the sun (which is a good thing in today's climate until someone figures out how to send malicious payloads masquerading as updates... over which the user has no control but to accept)

But this is about the looks. Win10 is fine if your the type that doesn't mind every application looking like a generic vanilla web-page -- but yuk. (just compare it calculator to previous releases is about as good an example as any) Don't get me wrong, I don't want form over function, but when we have had stunning form for over a decade in desktop look, Win10 is somewhat of a let down and feels like a big step backwards in user-interface design. Between the office and home I probably have a dozen Win7 installs, a couple of Win10 installs (this laptop has Win10 on its SSD drive, and a second platter running OpenSuSE Leap/KDE3, with Win7 virtualized in Virtualbox). Win10 just cannot compare to the polished and finished look of the others. It works fine, WSL is a nice touch, its build in ssh server is nice, but alas, it just looks boring.

Win10 just cannot match the "enjoyment" or "pleasing to the eye" factor of any of them. I understand from a UI design standpoint why all desktops are moving to a web-page/css type UI interface. When you have to scale from a phone to a 27" monitor, you will inherently lose the layout optimizations for a larger display in exchange for UI that can be compiled to run on a wide range of devices.

Adding to the "I just don't like the way it looks" category, are all the buttons that are no longer buttons, all of the input-dialogs and combo-boxes that are not really dedicated and styled UI elements anymore, just simply markup abstractions in a larger interface scheme. Things are lost along the way. You no longer have the ability to customize titlebar height, border width in a native control-panel dialog (you can still control them with registry hacks) I see the Win10 interface is more a matter of what has been lost in, or as the result of, this race to web-ize the desktop. True desktop "themes" and configurable decorations are simply a casualty of this "progress". We have seen the progression on the Linux side of the house with the simple elegance of Qt3 and GTK+2 replaced with the web-ized Qt Frameworks adn GTK+3 giving the same "yuk" as the Win7->Win10 look.

Hopefully, after they have finished the functional transition to a web-ized desktop API, they can focus on bringing back some of the "pleasing to the eye" aspects of the desktop that have been lost along the way -- on both sides of the house.

 

[Barman58]

A user interface should be as minimalistic as possible as it is there to interface between the user and a the applications they wish to use to perform tasks. You also have to realise that the enthusiast market for Windows is miniscule not sure exactly how small but probably less that 1%, so should not be the main driving force in system design.

Linux is different with most of the myriad distros only appealing to enthusiasts and where it does perform a real task it is as headless servers with a basic text display.

Yes, the vast majority of our forum users are enthusiasts with a sprinkling of current and former professionals, so we can expect a bias towards customisation and tweaking but the huge majority of windows users are using it as a work tool or as a new form of Phone/TV/Radio/Music centre/ Newspaper/Etc .

The first group are in an environment is rightly locked down to allow them to concentrate on work and lets remember that apart from a small period at the start and end of work periods the work computer will, or should, just show the application used.

In the home environment it's a bit of a shock to find how many users, when asked what operating system they use will reply with windows, (no windows version, just windows), or they will say I don't know or, even more humorous or scary, Google (meaning that's their Browser, not Google OS). Ok there are a few misguided souls that will answer with Apple or IOS or Android

This is the ecosystem that Microsoft has to design for and although enthusiasts may be those spending time inputting issues and suggestions to the Insider Program microsoft has to design for the market majorities, not the minority.

The perfect OS is probably one that is totally invisible to today's majority of end users, they only see a phone screen most of the time, and they need the other screens that they occasionally interact with to be familiar. The days of the computer interface being designed by geeks for geeks is long gone, its now a case of the lowest common denominator being the major factor in design, Less is more - this applies to the OS, The screen size, and probably the traditional computer

 

[Melchior]

drankinatty, Nice informative post


Barman58.... sad but true...

so with that all, it does look like I will be stuck with Windows 7 F.O.R.E.V.E.R. lol:shock:
which is not entirely a bad thing.. more or less..

 

[Kari]

But this is about the looks. Win10 is fine if your the type that doesn't mind every application looking like a generic vanilla web-page -- but yuk. (just compare it calculator to previous releases is about as good an example as any) Don't get me wrong, I don't want form over function, but when we have had stunning form for over a decade in desktop look, Win10 is somewhat of a let down and feels like a big step backwards in user-interface design.

How strange that you use old calculator like the one in Windows 7 as an example. So this Windows 7 Calculator is "eye candy" to you:



... and this, Windows 10 Calculator is "generic vanilla - yuk":


(Screenshot shows native Windows 10 Calculator in build 16199.)

I have to say I totally disagree!

Kari

 

[Melchior]

AS THEY SAY IF IT AIN'T BROKE don't fix it! :sarc:

 

[matfx]

Still prefer Windows 7 over 10, could be the aero style effect.

 

[Layback Bear]

It's correct that the enthusiast market has dwindled in the last 10 years or so.
Today's big market is, buy it poke it and hope something happens.

Appearance wise I like it simple. I like the ability to changes sizes of things like fonts so I can read them easier, ect.

I keep my desktop black with a few icons. When I'm on my computer I'm doing something not staring at the pretty picture on the desktop.

I like to control my system as much as I can. Windows 7 gives me that ability to a large degree.
I do not like auto anything if I can stay away from them. I still update all my programs manually.

The thing about the enthusiast market that is different; we spend money.
That doesn't really do Microsoft much good because they don't sell what we are buying when it comes to hardware.
Some store bought computers cost less that one of my motherboards or cpu, ect.
All that hardware means nothing without a quality operating system to make it all work together.
For what a operating system does it should cost more. Windows 7 Pro is the cheapest thing on my computer and it's well worth what I paid for it. I'm waiting for the day I can say the same thing for W-10. Then W-10 will get a new home on it's own Intel M.2.

When I do some reading on the Ten Forum their still seem to be a problems with all the updates and upgrades. When you do get one their is a good chance it will mess up many things, including installed programs and settings. Then it takes a few more days to fix that mess. Just in time for another update.

To me W-10 is still beta. I will buy it when Microsoft gets it fixed and keeps it fixed.

Jack

 

[Barman58]

AS THEY SAY IF IT AIN'T BROKE don't fix it! :sarc:

I thought the old adage was " if it ain't broke, poke it until it is broke, then try and fix it, then tell the wife it broke itself and buy a new and better one"

 

[Melchior]

Layback Bear, "I still update all my programs manually."
^_^ checking for updates is one of my favorite things to do AND reading changelogs ^_^

"When I'm on my computer I'm doing something not staring at the pretty picture on the desktop. "
I actually love my desktop backgrounds ^_^ I have been getting really good ones from a artist/site
called Digital Blasphemy http://digitalblasphemy.com/

"I like to control my system as much as I can. Windows 7 gives me that ability to a large degree."
ME TOO ^_^ lol, my two systems (ELITE gaming desktop, and older laptop) are so highly configured
loosing either one to a crash, power surge, etc would be akin to SUICIDE.. I could not live without them ie. I have put soooooooo much work into to getting them just the way I like/love/NEED..

"All that hardware means nothing without a quality operating system to make it all work together."
Y.U.P. and another reason to be WINDOWS 7 F.O.R.E.V.E.R. lol


"Windows 7 Pro is the cheapest thing on my computer and it's well worth what I paid for it. "
paid... US $73.99 for my copy of Windows 7 Ultimate on eBay, June 2016 when I built my ELITE gaming rig

I thought the old adage was " if it ain't broke, poke it until it is broke, then try and fix it, then tell the wife it broke itself and buy a new and better one"

lol

 

[Layback Bear]

From post #90

paid... US $73.99 for my copy of Windows 7 Ultimate on eBay, June 2016 when I built my ELITE gaming rig

$73.99 is way to cheap for Ultimate.
Plus you got it from eBay has a smell to it. Normal price is around $300.00 if you can find a legal one.

If you would like to check if your system is activated properly we can help you with that.
I seriously doubt it is. Then again you might be one of the lucky ones.

Jack

 

[Melchior]

From post #90
$73.99 is way to cheap for Ultimate.
Plus you got it from eBay has a smell to it. Normal price is around $300.00 if you can find a legal one.

If you would like to check if your system is activated properly we can help you with that.
I seriously doubt it is. Then again you might be one of the lucky ones.

Jack

"Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 32/64 Bit Full Retail Version -2 DVDs & Product Key"
was the full title for that eBay Buy-It-Now..

i does seem that way... It was legit COA when I got it but it.. it would not activate because it had been previously used too many times it seems, even a phone call to support said as much so the.. sellers and his supplier got me a replacement key... BUT I had to go through a VERY PAINFUL phone activation nonsense... and I forgot to save the reply keycode.. so If I ever had to reactivate again for a HEAVEN FORBID r.e.i.n.s.t.a.l.l. I may have to go though that phone process again.. ;_;

btw... I went to go look for the old eBay messages from him for reference... EBAY DELETED them ALL


yeah I'm lucky ish...
but I have no for certain I am activated and good.

 

[Layback Bear]

If you called Microsoft and they gave you a replacement key to use, you need to write that key down and save in a safe place.

If you are activate with the replacement key from Microsoft you should be able to see it using Belarc.

Products: Belarc Advisor

You could also use Ccleaner to see the COA key.

CCleaner - Free Download or try CCleaner Professional - Piriform

Jack

 

[Melchior]

If you called Microsoft and they gave you a replacement key to use, you need to write that key down and save in a safe place.

If you are activate with the replacement key from Microsoft you should be able to see it using Belarc.

Products: Belarc Advisor

You could also use Ccleaner to see the COA key.

CCleaner - Free Download or try CCleaner Professional - Piriform

Jack

lol no the seller I bought the copy of Windows 7 from got me the replacement key...

the phone trouble was the M$ automated Windows activation hotline... xD
and saving the special activation code given in response to the code on screen...
thats is what i forgot to copy down not the product key

and CCleaner doesn't display the COA/Product-Key its Speccy that does...
and yeah I have the product-key saved to a text file AND printed out saved with the OS DVDs

 

[Layback Bear]

Just complete this tutorial by Brink and post the log here.
We will take a look and see if you got lucky or not.

Windows Genuine and Activation Issue Posting Instructions - Windows 7 Help Forums

Jack

 

[Melchior]

lol yeah sure...

btw
Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\System
"Windows is Activated"

Diagnostic Report (1.9.0027.0):
-----------------------------------------
Windows Validation Data-->

Validation Code: 0
Cached Online Validation Code: 0x0
Windows Product Key: *****-*****-X3FTF-K4PCG-D9GJY
Windows Product Key Hash: 4F2Dv03GHcFLfb0fZLZ/DcaB9PQ=
Windows Product ID: 00426-OEM-9403075-61462
Windows Product ID Type: 8
Windows License Type: COA SLP
Windows OS version: 6.1.7601.2.00010100.1.0.001
ID: {EF6C8116-3F52-4784-98CC-3E75D1B1B4F7}(1)
Is Admin: Yes
TestCab: 0x0
LegitcheckControl ActiveX: N/A, hr = 0x80070002
Signed By: N/A, hr = 0x80070002
Product Name: Windows 7 Ultimate
Architecture: 0x00000009
Build lab: 7601.win7sp1_ldr.170427-1518
TTS Error:
Validation Diagnostic:
Resolution Status: N/A

Vista WgaER Data-->
ThreatID(s): N/A, hr = 0x80070002
Version: N/A, hr = 0x80070002

Windows XP Notifications Data-->
Cached Result: N/A, hr = 0x80070002
File Exists: No
Version: N/A, hr = 0x80070002
WgaTray.exe Signed By: N/A, hr = 0x80070002
WgaLogon.dll Signed By: N/A, hr = 0x80070002

OGA Notifications Data-->
Cached Result: N/A, hr = 0x80070002
Version: N/A, hr = 0x80070002
OGAExec.exe Signed By: N/A, hr = 0x80070002
OGAAddin.dll Signed By: N/A, hr = 0x80070002

OGA Data-->
Office Status: 109 N/A
OGA Version: N/A, 0x80070002
Signed By: N/A, hr = 0x80070002
Office Diagnostics: 025D1FF3-364-80041010_025D1FF3-229-80041010_025D1FF3-230-1_025D1FF3-517-80040154_025D1FF3-237-80040154_025D1FF3-238-2_025D1FF3-244-80070002_025D1FF3-258-3

Browser Data-->
Proxy settings: N/A
User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Win32)
Default Browser: C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe
Download signed ActiveX controls: Prompt
Download unsigned ActiveX controls: Disabled
Run ActiveX controls and plug-ins: Allowed
Initialize and script ActiveX controls not marked as safe: Disabled
Allow scripting of Internet Explorer Webbrowser control: Disabled
Active scripting: Allowed
Script ActiveX controls marked as safe for scripting: Allowed

File Scan Data-->

Other data-->
Office Details: <GenuineResults><MachineData><UGUID>{EF6C8116-3F52-4784-98CC-3E75D1B1B4F7}</UGUID><Version>1.9.0027.0</Version><OS>6.1.7601.2.00010100.1.0.001</OS><Architecture>x64</Architecture><PKey>*****-*****-*****-*****-D9GJY</PKey><PID>00426-OEM-9403075-61462</PID><PIDType>8</PIDType><SID>S-1-5-21-1089812105-660790487-1645810749</SID><SYSTEM><Manufacturer>To be filled by O.E.M.</Manufacturer><Model>To be filled by O.E.M.</Model></SYSTEM><BIOS><Manufacturer>American Megatrends Inc.</Manufacturer><Version>2501</Version><SMBIOSVersion major="2" minor="7"/><Date>20140408000000.000000+000</Date></BIOS><HWID>721A3507018400F2</HWID><UserLCID>0409</UserLCID><SystemLCID>0409</SystemLCID><TimeZone>Eastern Standard Time(GMT-05:00)</TimeZone><iJoin>0</iJoin><SBID><stat>3</stat><msppid></msppid><name></name><model></model></SBID><OEM/><GANotification/></MachineData><Software><Office><Result>109</Result><Products/><Applications/></Office></Software></GenuineResults>

Spsys.log Content: 0x80070002

Licensing Data-->
Software licensing service version: 6.1.7601.17514

Name: Windows(R) 7, Ultimate edition
Description: Windows Operating System - Windows(R) 7, OEM_COA_SLP channel
Activation ID: 022a1afb-b893-4190-92c3-8f69a49839fb
Application ID: 55c92734-d682-4d71-983e-d6ec3f16059f
Extended PID: 00426-00188-030-761462-02-1033-7601.0000-1652016
Installation ID: 013662958903074154921033112396226625056852403146913252
Processor Certificate URL: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=88338
Machine Certificate URL: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=88339
Use License URL: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=88341
Product Key Certificate URL: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=88340
Partial Product Key: D9GJY
License Status: Licensed
Remaining Windows rearm count: 2
Trusted time: 5/23/2017 2:06:29 AM

Windows Activation Technologies-->
HrOffline: 0x00000000
HrOnline: 0x00000000
HealthStatus: 0x0000000000000000
Event Time Stamp: 3:8:2017 10:09
ActiveX: Registered, Version: 7.1.7600.16395
Admin Service: Registered, Version: 7.1.7600.16395
HealthStatus Bitmask Output:


HWID Data-->
HWID Hash Current: NAAAAAIAAQABAAEAAgACAAAAAgABAAEAHKLI33cW4vJGUgDhYo1kx8HtAn7KxOaPrHJudQ==

OEM Activation 1.0 Data-->
N/A

OEM Activation 2.0 Data-->
BIOS valid for OA 2.0: yes, but no SLIC table
Windows marker version: N/A
OEMID and OEMTableID Consistent: N/A
BIOS Information:
ACPI Table Name OEMID Value OEMTableID Value
APIC ALASKA A M I
FACP ALASKA A M I
HPET ALASKA A M I
MCFG ALASKA A M I
FPDT ALASKA A M I
SSDT AMD POWERNOW

 

[Layback Bear]

You are correct, Speccy shows the key.

The problem you have is you have this as a motherboard.

Asus SABERTOOTH 990FX R2.0

and this from you log

Windows License Type: COA SLP

The motherboard is after market retail.

That alone makes it a counterfeit installation of Windows 7.

As far as I know, Microsoft does not issue COA SLP key.
So I don't know what you did with Microsoft over the phone but it wasn't getting that key.

Jack

 

[Melchior]

The motherboard is after market retail.
That alone makes it a counterfeit installation of Windows 7.

As far as I know, Microsoft does not issue COA SLP key.
So I don't know what you did with Microsoft over the phone but it wasn't getting that key.

Jack

"That alone makes it a counterfeit installation of Windows 7."
Huh? :sarc:
1) the Retail Product key I received first from my purchase on eBay was Legit w/ legit-DVDs, Windows 7 Ultimate accepted it!!
but would not activate, mostly like it do to having been used previously used it seems..
2) The replacement key, does appear to be OEM sadly, BUT Windows 7 Ultimate ACCEPTED it AS LEGIT, and while I had to go through the automated phone system to activate it..

The return code the Automated MS phone system generated, WAS ACCEPTED AS LEGIT by my copy of MS Windows 7 Ultimate

so as far as MS is concerned, my copy of 7 is LEGIT(DVDs and COA sticker), my PRODUCT-KEY(s) are/were LEGIT, and phone activation code is LEGIT.. so I am not sure the problem...

only problem from your point of view? The Mobo is RETAIL and the PRODUCT-KEY is OEM???? really?! that really can't be that big a deal...

The only beef I can see is they/he never bothered to mail me the COA sticker for the 2nd LEGIT key that did after all, work for me...


btw... your "counterfeit" comment rather UPSET me... >_<
I SPENT $1300 to build this great PC


........

A System Locked Pre-installation key, or SLP key, is a product key that does NOT require activation, and is used by major OEMs (Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc.) with Windows Pre-installation deployments, a special way to install Windows for cloning to PCs en masse.

OOh... IT's NOT MY FAULT THEY SENT ME THE WRONG KEY TYPE

btw.. I looked for legit when I was browsing eBay.. and found one that's price was affordable to me as $300 u mentioned as an average was above my spending grade... fyi.. my friend of a friend lent me the $1300 to build my new PC with and I payed it back a little at a time over the course of 6 months...

 

[Layback Bear]

How much you spend or borrow on your system is not of my concern or business.

Right now all I have to go by is the log you posted.

This site will explain the different kinds of Windows 7 activation.

Windows License Types Explained

[FONT=&quot] OEM SLP[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and COA SLP product keys, are issued by large computer manufacturers and use SLP (System Locked Pre-installation) technology to bind the license to the original motherboard via the BIOS and software. [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The OEM SLP keys self-activate if the corresponding data in the BIOS is correct. OEM SLP keys, which the user can read in the MGADiag report or software like KeyFinder, cannot be used by the end user to manually activate Windows. The COA SLP key is printed on a sticker affixed to the side of the computer case (desktops), or on the bottom of the case (laptops), or in the battery compartment (newer laptops). This is the key for the user to enter manually should he need to activate Windows himself.[/FONT]

Here is another site with a lot of good information and Q & A.

Volume Licensing Service Center

Jack.

 

[Melchior]

hm..... as a added note the seller I bought it from went MIA,
"This user is no longer registered on eBay."

(reads first article/forum-post)... i see.. so in some way i did get screwed...
oh well it can't be helped at this point...
it activated and my system works..