Memory Usage

[bsm2003]

Got Win 7 X64 7057 Fresh install this morning on my setup
Intel E8500 core2 duo 3.16Ghz
4 GB DDR2 PC6400 Ram
Nvidia GeForce FX 9800GT 1024MB DDR3 dedicated memory
ASUS P5Q-C Motherboard
4Gb DDR2 PC6400 Crucial ram 2GBx2 sticks

Why would Win7 share system memory with the video if my card has dedicated memory.
No onboard video for this motherboard

DXDiag relevant info below.

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 3/23/2009, 10:00:29
Machine name: BRIAN
Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (6.1, Build 7057) (7057.winmain.090305-2000)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: ME
System Model: System Product Name
BIOS: BIOS Date: 01/07/09 10:53:24 Ver: 08.00.14
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8500 @ 3.16GHz (2 CPUs), ~3.2GHz
Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 3328MB RAM
Page File: 879MB used, 5772MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7057.0000 64bit Unicode

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT (Microsoft Corporation - WDDM v1.1)
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 9800 GT
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0605&SUBSYS_0606196E&REV_A2
Display Memory: 2419 MB
Dedicated Memory: 1011 MB
Shared Memory: 1407 MB
Current Mode: 1680 x 1050 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
Monitor Model: Acer P221W
Monitor Id: ACR0016
Native Mode: 1680 x 1050(p) (59.883Hz)
Output Type: DVI
Driver Name: nvd3dumx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2umx.dll, nvwgf2um
Driver File Version: 7.15.0011.7943 (English)
Driver Version: 7.15.11.7943
DDI Version: 10
Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
Driver Attributes: Final Retail

This does effect the game play!

The card MFGR does not say anything about nor was it advertised as 2GB of dedicated memory.
advertised 1024MB/1GB of memory.

Here is the dxdiag relevant portions from xp

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 2/25/2009, 19:41:25
Machine name: BRIAN
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp_sp3_gdr.080814-1236)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
System Model: System Product Name
BIOS: BIOS Date: 01/07/09 10:53:24 Ver: 08.00.14
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8500 @ 3.16GHz (2CPUs)
Memory: 3326MB RAM
Page File: 365MB used, 4845MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.5512 32bit Unicode


---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 9800 GT
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI \VEN_10DE&DEV_0605&SUBSYS_0606196E&REV_A2
Display Memory: 1024.0 MB
Current Mode: 1680 x 1050 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
Driver Name: nv4_disp.dll
Driver Version: 6.14.0011.8206 (English)
DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 2/9/2009 13:18:00, 6185088 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes

 

[ickymay]

If I understand the tech from microsoft correctly I think this could be down to a functionality called “Physical Address Extensions” which would suggest the driver is running the card as 32bit or is simply using PAE ?

maybe microsoft are experimenting with using PAE in 64 bit windows 7 ?

It is something used regularly on servers

up until now I have stayed away from graphics cards with very large onboard memory as I am aware that most 32 bit OS will dedicate the same ammount taken from RAM to mirror the graphics cards mem size

I reserve the right to be completely wrong btw

 

[bsm2003]

That sucks. I have effectively lost almost half of the system ram cause someone thought that would be better than just using what the hardware manufacturers have provided.

 

[ickymay]

That sucks. I have effectively lost almost half of the system ram cause someone thought that would be better than just using what the hardware manufacturers have provided.

hmm still assuming I'm right I would say not neccesarily a bad thing for you :huh:

PAE is also going to be determined by your CPU which i think can use it and your mobo chipset.

heres my report

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 3/23/2009, 23:09:17
Machine name: DADDYMAY
Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (6.1, Build 7057) (7057.winmain.090305-2000)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: BIOSTAR Group
System Model: TF8200 A2+
BIOS: Default System BIOS
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6000+ (2 CPUs), ~3.1GHz
Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4096MB RAM
Page File: 1759MB used, 2333MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7057.0000 64bit Unicode

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX/9800 GTX+ (Prerelease - WDDM 1.1)
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 9800 GTX/9800 GTX+
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0612&SUBSYS_059210DE&REV_A2
Display Memory: 2289 MB
Dedicated Memory: 497 MB
Shared Memory: 1791 MB
Current Mode: 1680 x 1050 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
Monitor Model: ASUS VK222H
Monitor Id: ACI22A6
Native Mode: 1680 x 1050(p) (59.852Hz)
Output Type: DVI
Driver Name: nvd3dumx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2um
Driver File Version: 8.15.0011.8171 (English)
Driver Version: 8.15.11.8171
DDI Version: 10
Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 2/27/2009 01:21:00, 7826944 bytes

I think windows has locked more of my RAM away for graphics card use

 

[dmex]

That sucks. I have effectively lost almost half of the system ram cause someone thought that would be better than just using what the hardware manufacturers have provided.

You never lose Ram :sarc:

Windows will only use the Graphics card memory unless the graphics card is on-board, what Microsoft did starting with Vista was allow graphics memory to be swapped with physical memory if the graphics card becomes low on resources, that also allowed graphics data to be paged to disk under the same circumstances...

If your using up all the graphics card resources then it will use the system resources, If there's nothing using it then theres nothing using it...

It allows resources to be used and reused by applications or games more effectively than what was possible with previous versions of Windows or all other operating systems.

 

[bsm2003]

I could maybe understand 512 being locked away to match onboard graphics cards; but dedicated graphics cards with 1GB should not have anything taken from system memory or at most 512 not 1.5 times the dedicated memory on the graphics card. As my photo above shows I lost just shy of half of my onboard system memory and that is not available for program usage. Guess multitasking will still be a problem on windows.

 

[dmex]

my photo above shows I lost just shy of half of my onboard system memory and that is not available for program usage. Guess multitasking will still be a problem on windows.

That photo doesnt show anything useful :huh:

This photo from my system shows 1791MB of Shared Graphics Memory:

Process Monitor System Usage:

Memory shows 1.2GB running a few applications...

Resource Monitor Memory Usage:

Memory Usage shows 1190MB with 2691GB in Standby (Its caching the applications I was just running)

You can see its not reserving RAM or preventing me from using it, Its just allows graphics applications to use System Ram if the Dedicated Graphics Card memory is too low... On-Board graphics cards always use System Ram

If Windows was doing what you said it was then it would have been picked up years ago, plus NVidia, ATI and multiple other vendors would be suing Microsoft

 

[smarteyeball]

You can see its not reserving RAM or preventing me from using it, Its just allows graphics applications to use System Ram if the Dedicated Graphics Card memory is too low...

Which is a good thing

 

[kpo6969]

Microsoft Windows Vista: How much memory is enough? - PCSTATS.com

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/kernel/wmm.mspx

 

[ickymay]

you can't get away from the fact that win7 is dedicating/allocating a decent slice of my RAM to support my choice of graphics card :huh:

Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX/9800 GTX+ (Prerelease - WDDM 1.1)
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 9800 GTX/9800 GTX+
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0612&SUBSYS_059210DE&REV_A2
Display Memory: 2289 MB
Dedicated Memory: 497 MB
Shared Memory: 1791 MB

so if I understand this right, with my graphics card which has 512mb of onboard DDR2 memory win7 has still allocated 1791 MB as shared memory giving me a total of 2289 MB for my graphics display

where in the past I have always opted for graphics cards instead of onboard, purely to free up the most RAM for system use, has this now changed as a decision ?

can anyone explain why this is and how it works and more importantly does it makes choosing a graphics card for your system also directly affect your available RAM ?

 

[bsm2003]

Examples of Graphics Memory Reporting

however this article seems to be for on-board/discrete graphics cards only as far as I can tell.

So I have so far not received what I consider a good reason for sharing system memory with a separate installed graphics card with it's own memory.

 

[ickymay]

Examples of Graphics Memory Reporting

however this article seems to be for on-board/discrete graphics cards only as far as I can tell.

So I have so far not received what I consider a good reason for sharing system memory with a separate installed graphics card with it's own memory.

I would hope this might explain it as i posted here

 

[bsm2003]

So what's taking up 769 MB of my system memory then. I noticed in your hardware monitor that you only have 3 mb reserved.

Have found the problem. It's a bios setting for the motherboard that reduces the ram for 32bit or opens the full ram available for x64. The labeling for it is actually backwards just looking at the bios entry. have the proper setting and now I have the full 4GB available.

Here is the culprit.

 

[Danteb]

Hello everyone
I have the same problem. I recently upgraded an XP machine to Windows 7, half the physical RAM (1Gb) is "Hardware Reserved". The system runs good, better then XP did on it, but I would like to understand what is happening in the system.
• The motherboard is an AOpen MK-89L with the NVIDIA nForce chipset.
• The system is an AMD Athlon 64 2800+, it is a 64bit system running 32bit Win7 (and the 32bit XP before it). Could it be related to that? I don’t think so but possible.
• I upgraded the video card to an NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT/512MB AGP card.
• 1GB (one stick, DDR) of RAM. It shows the 1GB installed but then shows (512 usable).
• I've upgraded the BIOS to the latest from AOpen.
• The system has an onboard sound chip, but Win7 didn't recognize it at all so I disabled the onboard chip in the BIOS and then added a Creative Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum.
• The AGP Aperture setting in the BIOS was 64MB, I reset it for 512, tested it to see what happened, it just seemed to slowed the system down. Changed it to 32MB and it seems about the same as the 64MB setting.
• I tried the msconfig.exe/max mem fix, neither of the settings were checked, so that was a no go.
• I’m looking into GART and the AGP3.5 driver, maybe there is an answer there.
I’ve researched all the settings in my BIOS (boy wasn’t that fun) but can’t seem to find anything about memory mapping.
Why is it holding 512mb in reserve? What and where is the setting for it? Is it just a function of being an older mobo, and there is no way to adjust the mapping? Is it a bug, and will eventually get fixed?
Any answers are appreciated.

 

[logicearth]

Why is it holding 512mb in reserve? What and where is the setting for it? Is it just a function of being an older mobo, and there is no way to adjust the mapping? Is it a bug, and will eventually get fixed?
Any answers are appreciated.

The answer is with Nvidia, however, they are awfully tight lip. Something about Nvidia drivers or cards that make them reserve a portion of RAM. Don't know why...

 

[Danteb]

thanks, I'l look into that.
I was also hoping to find out what the exact setting info BSM2003 was talking about in the BIOS, maybe I missed one.
Thanks again for the help.

 

[stormy13]

I’m looking into GART and the AGP3.5 driver, maybe there is an answer there.

Good luck with that as Nvidia didn't provide and AGP driver for the NF3 chipset and Windows 7. Have a search through our video card section and I doubt you will find much if anything with good results and that chipset (AGP version) and Windows 7, to the point the standard response is usually to wait on Windows 7 until such a time as the person upgrades the computer to something a little more recent and actually has 7 support (Nvidia dropped the NF3 like a hot potato shortly after the NF4 came out, with the last XP update almost 5 years ago).