Microsoft sues Comet over OS disk sales

[severedsolo]

I think COMET should be applauded in this instance -- they aren't infringing or pirating MS'es intellectual property rights -- but actually supplying a NEED for customers in supplying an OS disk that they've ALREADY PAID FOR.
Cheers
jimbo

Jimbo, while I agree with the sentiment of your statement, the fact is that Comet were selling these disks for £14.99. As far as I can see, Microsoft wouldn't (or couldn't) have had an issue with it, if they had just been giving them away.

They weren't just saying "oh by the way, here is a backup image, just in case" they were profiteering.

I agree that the disks should be supplied with the PC, I disagree with making the customer pay extra for them.

If the recovery Disc was sold at 14.99 a pop it is a small fee for the work of making the Disc in order to satisfy customer needs materiels do cost money

Ms shouldn't be crying about any of this by doing the right thing in supplying the Disc in the first place you can't blame a company for Fixing a larger companies redundent issues ,Not everyone has the know-how on how to make a recovery cd and OEM copies no matter what should be supplied

Really, the issue isn't Microsoft's customer service. You buy straight from Microsoft, you DO get a disk. If the OEM's choose not to supply a recovery disk, that's their decision.

As for £15 being a nominal fee for materials. A blank DVD-R costs 50p at most. I know Comet are struggling financially, but I'm sure they could have absorbed 50p from the profits to supply these disks.

Admittedly legally they still wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but at least the moral argument would carry a bit more water. Hell if they had given the disks away, I would be applauding them.

 

[Solarstarshines]

Jimbo, while I agree with the sentiment of your statement, the fact is that Comet were selling these disks for £14.99. As far as I can see, Microsoft wouldn't (or couldn't) have had an issue with it, if they had just been giving them away.

They weren't just saying "oh by the way, here is a backup image, just in case" they were profiteering.

I agree that the disks should be supplied with the PC, I disagree with making the customer pay extra for them.

If the recovery Disc was sold at 14.99 a pop it is a small fee for the work of making the Disc in order to satisfy customer needs materiels do cost money

Ms shouldn't be crying about any of this by doing the right thing in supplying the Disc in the first place you can't blame a company for Fixing a larger companies redundent issues ,Not everyone has the know-how on how to make a recovery cd and OEM copies no matter what should be supplied

Really, the issue isn't Microsoft's customer service. You buy straight from Microsoft, you DO get a disk. If the OEM's choose not to supply a recovery disk, that's their decision.

As for £15 being a nominal fee for materials. A blank DVD-R costs 50p at most. I know Comet are struggling financially, but I'm sure they could have absorbed 50p from the profits to supply these disks.

Admittedly legally they still wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but at least the moral argument would carry a bit more water. Hell if they had given the disks away, I would be applauding them.

I fully understand where you going with this but OEM's Manufaturer's are working with MS which tells them what to do with there product ultimatly MS still had a hand in making the recovery Disc available charged or not MS should have supplied such software if they want to continue having consumer interest

Like I was saying before not everyone will know what to do with the disc or how to install it properly when something goes wrong that is when you have to call MS support for them to charge you and still potentially not have fixed the issue

It is all about how much we can suck out of someone for leaving simple things out like a recovery disc

 

[seekermeister]

I don't know why MS would go after one OEM for this, but not another, but it appears to me that this is a MS ploy to force customers to buy the OS twice, once when they buy the computer, and a second when they find that they need a recovery disc. Glad that build my own rigs.

 

[kado897]

I don't know why MS would go after one OEM for this, but not another, but it appears to me that this is a MS ploy to force customers to buy the OS twice, once when they buy the computer, and a second when they find that they need a recovery disc. Glad that build my own rigs.

Comet is not an OEM it is a retailer.

 

[Britton30]

The root issue here is that Comet was charging for a product that is free to download from MS. Comet is not a OEM but a vendor and has no right to do so. Each end-user can make backup copies of software but is forbidden by EULA to transfer or sell the copy. Comet is not an end-user.
I do however give them credit for trying. It is the OEMs saving, what, 10-12 cents per PC sold that is to blame.

 

[alphanumeric]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole issue that Comet is selling recovery disks for PC's it didn't originally sell to the customer? What I mean to say is, whats to stop somebody from buying a Windows 7 Ultimate recovery disk for a PC that only came with Starter or Home Premium installed. If commit is just taking you on your word you get a upgrade for a very small fee compared to what Microsoft would charge you. If thats whats going on I can see why Microsoft would want to stop it.

EDIT: oops I guess I should have read that article before posting, looks like I got it all wrong. From what was posted in that article they only sold the recovery disks to people who bought PC's from them.

 

[YTBOY83]

Microsoft is to sue UK electronics retailer Comet for making tens of thousands of allegedly unauthorised CDs for its Windows operating system and selling them to customers.

The US computing giant has issued proceedings against Comet for allegedly creating more than 94,000 counterfeit "recovery discs" for its Windows Vista and Windows XP operating systems and selling them to customers.

But the retailer says it will contest Microsoft's claim, saying that it acted in the interests of consumers because Microsoft had stopped supplying the recovery discs with new computers.

The CDs were sold to Comet customers who had bought PCs and laptops that come pre-loaded with Windows, allowing them to rebuild the operating system in the event of a serious crash.

More here. Microsoft to sue Comet over 'fake' Windows discs | Technology | guardian.co.uk

More info: Is UK retail giant Comet really a Windows pirate? | ZDNet

I do agree that recovery discs should be packaged with OEM machines.

Comet should not have been selling recovery disks, there job is to sell products and advise properly, not brake rules.

 

[alphanumeric]

OK, so they are selling Acer, HP, Compaq, ASUS, Sony, etc, PC's and then selling recovery disks for those OEM PC's. The disks you should be buying/ordering from Acer, HP, Compaq, ASUS, or Sony, and not from Comet. One has to wonder, are they making there own disks or just copying the originals and putting their logo on them.

EDIT: Looks like I shot myself in the foot twice tonight. Reading a little further after making this post I see that they were making their own copies. All I can say is the pain killers I'm taking for my chronic back pain are making me a little slow on the draw tonight.

 

[Qdos]

Well, whatever the legal arguments, and whoever prevails... Comet are in a bad way... this could scupper the cash injection they need from new investment to stay afloat. If Microsoft pursue a legal action against them, and regardless of whose right or wrong, should they go into administration as a result of scare-mongering scuppering their refinancing, then Microsoft will find the only assets to seize are the leasehold premises of the merchant, their liabilities, and their stock.

They two parties should make a gentlemans arrangement to shake hands. Redmond is aware Comet are going to fold if they persist. The only winners are going to be the parasitic lawyers.

 

[cluberti]

If they indeed *sold* recovery media (rather than telling these folks to go to the OEM that actually made the PC itself), they'll be in trouble here. Making and selling reproductions of Microsoft's software, or another OEMs (which isn't theirs to license - that still belongs to Microsoft and can be produced by the OEM only under license agreement with the vendor) isn't legal in either the US or the UK under copyright laws. There isn't gonna be wiggle room here, unless a judge determines that somehow them selling the discs (at a profit, no less) and in leiu of another company that actually had the rights to produce such media was somehow OK. I can't see that happening, and although anything's possible (like getting hit by lightning or winning the lottery twice), Comet is likely gonna get whacked here. How hard on the wrist or other virtual body parts will probably be irrelevant when this is over, as this could potentially sink them in it's own right if it lasts awhile.

 

[Qdos]

If MS persist in this then the Comet brand and all their stores will disappear. Jobs will be lost, galore. Yes, Comet may have been wrong in the spirit of the law - but as some previous posters have said, they were only including recovery type disks for buyers of computers.

Sometimes pursuit of a legal point becomes futile. This is one such case.

 

[cluberti]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and does not absolve one of the consequences of breaking such law (especially in business, where it ALWAYS pays to "measure twice and cut once", to borrow a carpentry euphemism). They should very well have known doing this was illegal (and if they didn't, they're either stupid or lying - or both), and did it anyway, and many tens of thousands of times. If they wanted to be helpful, it would have been very easy to do the right and legal thing and pass the customer on to the OEM to acquire recovery media if that customer so desired. It would still have been perfectly legal, would have still made the customer happy, and likely would have kept this whole thing from happening. Neither hubris nor ignorance should shield one from consequences of violation of the law, and this isn't one of those "obscure" ones either, honestly.

 

[Britton30]

..or provided a packet explaining how a user can (legally) make their own recovery disks.
Comet simply broke the law by making and selling copies of copyrighted material without the authors' permission.

 

[Qdos]

And the upshot is... on the brink of bankruptcy... Microsoft send in their legal rottweillers... great tactics... and whatever happened to mediation? This is a no win, no win, situation for all parties...

 

[jimbo45]

Hi everyone

Motto for 2012

Hey, hey, everyone still Okay
How many Lawyers can we screw up today.


This type of case is totally pointless and futile whatever the "legal Merits".

Comet in NO WAY was attempting to steal or Pirate MS'es intellectual property rights -- these CD's still need a valid serial number for re-installation of the OS.

In other words you need a proper Windows License which is usually found on a sticker on the bottom of the PC sold in the store.

If Comet go under even MS itself will have lost revenue as Comet sells quite a few PC's (with W7 installed on it) and a number of other MS products too.

If I were to see a US Lawyer crossing the street my Car wouldd experience a sudden case of brake failure.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[alphanumeric]

Hi everyone

This type of case is totally pointless and futile whatever the "legal Merits".

Comet in NO WAY was attempting to steal or Pirate MS'es intellectual property rights -- these CD's still need a valid serial number for re-installation of the OS.

In other words you need a proper Windows License which is usually found on a sticker on the bottom of the PC sold in the store.

Yes legally you have to have the COA sticker to match the OS your installing but if you use the recovery media made for your specific brand of PC, you don't need to actually enter a product code during the install. The recovery media restores the OS without asking for one. And I believe it will use SLP activation too. Thats probably the sticky point with Microsoft. You need a certificate file for that to work and they give that out to the OEM's. At least thats the way I understand it from what I've read on Wikipedia. I think Comet is screwed however you look at it.

 

[DarkStar GT]

Bah to the OEMs - no Recovery disk = no sale. But don't they now provide a "Recovery partition"? Is that not as good?

What would happen if, as part of the sale process, Comet showed the customer how to make a Recovery disk, there and then?

 

[kado897]

What would happen if, as part of the sale process, Comet showed the customer how to make a Recovery disk, there and then?

I suggested that earlier but, thinking about it, I doubt that Comet as a general electrical retailer would have any staff who knew how to do that in most of their stores.

 

[alphanumeric]

The recovery partition is only good if you actually use the utility to make a set of recovery "disks" before something bad happens. If you hard drive gets messed up you may not be able to actually access the recovery mode. Screw the recovery media, I'd rather have real install media with no bloatware on it.

 

[severedsolo]

Bah to the OEMs - no Recovery disk = no sale. But don't they now provide a "Recovery partition"? Is that not as good?

Well as others have said, if the hard drive goes south you're pretty buggered.

What is less well known however, is that in many cases the recovery partition is actually linked to the default Windows 7 Recovery Environment.

In other words, if your boot manager goes south then your buggered. To make matters worse many OEM's (Toshiba in particular, from first hand experience, although I've spoken to quite a few people who say other OEM's do the same thing) "recovery disks" won't install without the OEM's boot manager.

As an example, I had a Toshiba Windows 7 laptop with a corrupted BCD. The recovery partition was inaccessible, but thankfully the person I was fixing it for had the original installation media. (Was actually supplied with the laptop for once.) I stuck the disk in, and it got stuck at "Loading Setup" because it couldn't find the BCD. Once I stuck my retail Ultimate disk in, with a removed ei.cfg it worked fine.

I'm not saying that recovery partitions don't have their place, I actually use a custom made one myself so I don't have to find the disk most of the time, but linking them into the bootmanager is just stupid and or delibaretly milking customers for support fees depending on your point of view.