Microsoft warns against Windows XP security update hack

[Lady Fitzgerald]

According to this :
Windows 7 is still growing in market share - GSMArena Blog
At the moment Win7 has 50% market share
Win XP 25 %
Win 8 and Win 8.1 around 6% each.
Vista 2.9%
Also Win 7 has the fastest growing rate of 0.79 %
Personally I don't care either way, but for the company to completely abandon 25% of it's customers (Win XP) and at the same time keeping support for products that have 2.9% of the market share (Vista) or pushing products that customers clearly don't want (Win 8 and 8.1 with slower growth rate than 7) clearly shows arrogance.

When XP first came out, it was announced its lifespan was supposed to be only ten years. M$ later extended that almost three more years. How can ten years advance warning, then almost three years more added on, be arrogance? Pushing Win 8 and 8.1 despite its unpopularity, yes, that's arrogance, but not with the end of XP.

 

[Night Hawk]

According to this :
Windows 7 is still growing in market share - GSMArena Blog
At the moment Win7 has 50% market share
Win XP 25 %
Win 8 and Win 8.1 around 6% each.
Vista 2.9%
Also Win 7 has the fastest growing rate of 0.79 %
Personally I don't care either way, but for the company to completely abandon 25% of it's customers (Win XP) and at the same time keeping support for products that have 2.9% of the market share (Vista) or pushing products that customers clearly don't want (Win 8 and 8.1 with slower growth rate than 7) clearly shows arrogance.

When XP first came out, it was announced its lifespan was supposed to be only ten years. M$ later extended that almost three more years. How can ten years advance warning, then almost three years more added on, be arrogance? Pushing Win 8 and 8.1 despite its unpopularity, yes, that's arrogance, but not with the end of XP.

MS didn't extend the life span on Win 2000, 2000 Pro which would seem to be arrogant for many who well favored the older version over XP being that XP itself was a rush job after ME supposedly flopped. Once you reach 10yrs. time any US manufacturer is allowed to drop support on anything they make. MS extended life a few years for XP simply due to businesses being the bulk of the customers still running with it.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...Once you reach 10yrs. time any US manufacturer is allowed to drop support on anything they make...

Where did you get that from? Good luck getting support for a nine year old microwave or cell phone.

...MS extended life a few years for XP simply due to businesses being the bulk of the customers still running with it.

So? What's that have to do with anything?

 

[Pete4]

The problem with 10 year support period is this: Vista was released in 2007 and many people were buying XP instead way after 2007, since Vista had many problems and therefore they never got 10yr support. Anybody who couldn't use Vista for one reason or another was forced to use XP until Win 7 was released in 2009, so if you bought Win xp PC in the middle of 2009 , support expired for them in less than 5 years. I just bought new Win 7 laptop and MS support will expire for me in 6 years not 10. As a matter of fact 10 year support period should start when Vista was released in 2007 officially replacing XP, not 2001. Are you telling me, if Vista and Win 7 was delayed another 3 years MS had right to stop support for it's current then Win xp OS? I thought normally 10 year support period counted from the time the product went out of production, not when it was introduced.

 

[gregrocker]

I move around Boston like one big campus, stopping into any of a dozen University libraries to get online for as long as I want. I like to see what they're running and kibbutz with the IT pros and students. Every single one migrated over the past 5 years from XP to Win7. In my chair at Harvard Dental School the other day I noticed their familiar GUI now was being run on Win7 instead of XP last year. This year the students were speaking my various teeth measurements into the PC to do without borrowing each other as stenographers.


So here at the hub of Civilization where its brightest minds are educated things track pretty much with what we've heard in the business world: in spite of the MS scare campaign to move to Win8 Secure Boot to avoid BIOS infection, the great mass of Businesses and Universities ignored this and chose the best OS out there. An Apple may be the student social status symbol here but it's Win7 where the real work of the world economy is being done including the schools educating them.


I am waiting patiently to see if MS saves itself from its own stubborn folly of pretending like Win7 is being phased out in favor of New Coke. I don't have a lot of hope for them if they don't soon make a correction, issue Win7 SP2, stop hiding retail Win7 copies, make it available on new PC's to stop their self-imposed slide, Rebrand 8 as a mobile and touch OS.


I am grateful that they reversed course on allowing me to continue as an 5th year MVP while supporting their only successful OS, since we were under a lot of pressure earlier to migrate. But I also am uneasy that deserved MVP nominations we've made from the home of Win7 are being prioritized lower because these forums - the top tech forums in the history of the web - serve only Win7.


MS needs to come home to Win7 to save itself. They've never seemed to notice it is the best ever OS and one of the greatest achievements in tech. Don't toss to the wind years of hard successful work 95>98>2000>XP arriving at it, or replace it without a worthy successor.

 

[Layback Bear]

Pete4 where did you ever get this understanding.
From your post #44

I thought normally 10 year support period counted from the time the product went out of production, not when it was introduced.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

The problem with 10 year support period is this: Vista was released in 2007 and many people were buying XP instead way after 2007, since Vista had many problems and therefore they never got 10yr support. Anybody who couldn't use Vista for one reason or another was forced to use XP until Win 7 was released in 2009, so if you bought Win xp PC in the middle of 2009 , support expired for them in less than 5 years. I just bought new Win 7 laptop and MS support will expire for me in 6 years not 10. As a matter of fact 10 year support period should start when Vista was released in 2007 officially replacing XP, not 2001. Are you telling me, if Vista and Win 7 was delayed another 3 years MS had right to stop support for it's current then Win xp OS? I thought normally 10 year support period counted from the time the product went out of production, not when it was introduced.

I wish most warranties followed that absurd logic. The ten year support period clock started when the product was introduced; that has always been the way it was done. Why should M$ extend support because someone waited several years to buy an OS instead of buying it when first released? That's like finding a new car at a dealership that sat unsold on the lot for several years (don't scoff, it has happened) and expecting the manufacturer to carry parts for it for ten years after you bought it. Like it or not, M$ is in business to make money for its shareholders, not cater to its customers indefinitely. If M$ doesn't make money, it will go out of business. If you don't like M$'s business model, feel free to use another OS (which is what I'm doing with Win 8; I'm staying with Win 7 until its support ends and if I don't like what M$ has then, I'll move on elsewhere).

 

[Pete4]

Pete4 where did you ever get this understanding.
From your post #44

I thought normally 10 year support period counted from the time the product went out of production, not when it was introduced.

I think we are confusing 2 things: Every product that is in production and currently for sale has to be supported by the maker. That is the support MS gives to Win 8.1 users. As far as Win XP is concerned, I'm talking about End Of Life support for obsolete products no longer produced and it usually is 10 years from the time production ended for hardware products.
For example here:
End-of-life (product) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and I quote: Product support during EOL varies by product. For hardware with an expected lifetime of 10 years after production ends, the support includes spare parts, technical support and service.
Win XP was in "production" for 6 years, more than half of it's total original support lifetime offered by MS.
And again, personally I don't care, but if you guys talk about support for obsolete products, which is the case as far as xp goes, MS gave such support only for 7 years, not 13, the 6 years XP was in "production" support would be implied, especially since most of it was fixes to original product. Theoretically, since many computers were sold with Win installed and integral part of computer hardware and computers are hardware, shouldn't MS follow industry standard 10 year end of life support?

 

[A Guy]

So Windows XP is hardware? That's a strange logic. A Guy

 

[Night Hawk]

The reference to any 10yr. support cycle is mainly surrounding automobile manufacturers who are required by federal law to provide spare parts for each model year for at least 10yrs. from the time each year is new. A brand new 2014 vehicle should be seeing spare parts at least until 2024.

The difference with softwares being a totally different type of product is how MS extended support to XP due to the slow migration seen by IT dept.s to Vista and later 7 for as long as it still seemed somewhat profitable to them since the bulk of MS revenues come from the business community.

The reluctant migration to Vista from XP was primarily due to MS "understating" note the actual minimum system requirements to allow OEMs to push Vista out on inadequate pcs and laptops stating only 512mb of memory when at least 1gb to 1.5 better 2gb was the actual need for the newer larger version resulting in ME II?!

The stripping away of features as well as support for things Vista and later 7 were to see included as well as the doing with the traditional desktop gui in favor of an Win RT look alike in 8, 8.1 could well end up making the latest offering a sequel many will label "ME III" with early word on "9" not looking too good either. 9 beta however is still the rumor mill on what that will turn out to be. Win 7 on the other hand still tends to remain the one true success story for MS as far as the OS side of things.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

The reference to any 10yr. support cycle is mainly surrounding automobile manufacturers who are required by federal law to provide spare parts for each model year for at least 10yrs. from the time each year is new. A brand new 2014 vehicle should be seeing spare parts at least until 2024.

The difference with softwares being a totally different type of product is how MS extended support to XP due to the slow migration seen by IT dept.s to Vista and later 7 for as long as it still seemed somewhat profitable to them since the bulk of MS revenues come from the business community.

The reluctant migration to Vista from XP was primarily due to MS "understating" note the actual minimum system requirements to allow OEMs to push Vista out on inadequate pcs and laptops stating only 512mb of memory when at least 1gb to 1.5 better 2gb was the actual need for the newer larger version resulting in ME II?!

The stripping away of features as well as support for things Vista and later 7 were to see included as well as the doing with the traditional desktop gui in favor of an Win RT look alike in 8, 8.1 could well end up making the latest offering a sequel many will label "ME III" with early word on "9" not looking too good either. 9 beta however is still the rumor mill on what that will turn out to be. Win 7 on the other hand still tends to remain the one true success story for MS as far as the OS side of things.

Thank you for "getting it"!

 

[Pete4]

So Windows XP is hardware? That's a strange logic. A Guy

Show me computer without operating system, that is not useless piece of junk and show me usage for Win xp, that does not require some type of computer hardware and I agree with you 100%.
How about this: your 7 year old car is no longer safe to drive on the road because software running on it's 10 or so computers is no longer supported? Far fetched? Not really, we already have systems like GM Onstar, that can access network to call for emergency, once the car can access network, it could be hacked and most computers in a car are networked. You figure the rest.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

So Windows XP is hardware? That's a strange logic. A Guy

Show me computer without operating system, that is not useless piece of junk and show me usage for Win xp, that does not require some type of computer hardware and I agree with you 100%.
How about this: your 7 year old car is no longer safe to drive on the road because software running on it's 10 or so computers is no longer supported? Far fetched? Not really, we already have systems like GM Onstar, that can access network to call for emergency, once the car can access network, it could be hacked and most computers in a car are networked. You figure the rest.

Bad analogy. Car computers use a completely different OS. Not all are hackable.

 

[HammerHead]

Not Hackable!!!!

So Windows XP is hardware? That's a strange logic. A Guy

Show me computer without operating system, that is not useless piece of junk and show me usage for Win xp, that does not require some type of computer hardware and I agree with you 100%.
How about this: your 7 year old car is no longer safe to drive on the road because software running on it's 10 or so computers is no longer supported? Far fetched? Not really, we already have systems like GM Onstar, that can access network to call for emergency, once the car can access network, it could be hacked and most computers in a car are networked. You figure the rest.

Bad analogy. Car computers use a completely different OS. Not all are hackable.

You refuse to admit that if it was made by a human another human can "Hack it"?

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Show me computer without operating system, that is not useless piece of junk and show me usage for Win xp, that does not require some type of computer hardware and I agree with you 100%.
How about this: your 7 year old car is no longer safe to drive on the road because software running on it's 10 or so computers is no longer supported? Far fetched? Not really, we already have systems like GM Onstar, that can access network to call for emergency, once the car can access network, it could be hacked and most computers in a car are networked. You figure the rest.

Bad analogy. Car computers use a completely different OS. Not all are hackable.

You refuse to admit that if it was made by a human another human can "Hack it"?

A computer has to have access to the internet to be hackable. Most car computers are closed systems and require a physical connection to access them.

 

[HammerHead]

Dreamer

How about remote start?

How about?
Maintenance programs from remote locations?
How about keyless entry?
How about trip information (directons, etc.)?
How about too numerous to mention?

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

How about remote start?

How about?
Maintenance programs from remote locations?
How about keyless entry?
How about trip information (directons, etc.)?
How about too numerous to mention?

Not all vehicles have all that. All I have is keyless entry on my 2008 F150. That's not worth worrying about since it's even easier to just break the glass. Most of the actual vehicle computers that control the vehicle itself are still closed systems. The ones you listed don't affect vehicle operation or safety.

We are straying from the point. The point is no manufacturer can afford to support for a product forever. Build a bridge and get over it.

 

[Layback Bear]

Most computer modules in a car are networked.
Let me give a simple one.
The module that controls how the engine runs and transmission shifts is networked to the radio, windshield wippers and Antilock Brakes and steering. Also to the automatic door locks and much much more.
The car communicates to the outside world with a special built antenna normally incorporated in the radio antenna. Yes cars have been hacked while driving down the road.

If you really want to get into automobiles this is a start.
It gets very high tech quickly.

The 'Other' Modules: Counterman

Module Mania
As we said earlier, we’re not going to list all of the vehicle specific submodules because it would probably fill the rest of the pages in this magazine and then some. Instead we’ll give you a short list of “other” modules classified by what they do. Many of these modules have a single dedicated function to perform, so they are relatively simple. But others can be nearly as complex (and costly to replace) as a PCM. To make matters worse, most of these modules may be located virtually anywhere inside the vehicle. Space is tight inside today’s electronics-packed vehicles, so engineers are often forced to locate the module wherever they can find a spot that hasn’t already been taken by something else. Finding a module’s location often requires looking it up on an illustrated component guide or wiring diagram.

Some of these other modules include:
● ABS/traction control/stability control module
● Airbag (SRS) module
● Alarm module (or chime module) for anti-theft system
● Cruise control module (if not integrated within the PCM)
● Electronic steering module
● Fuel pump control module
● Injector driver module (such as FSD/PMD modules on GM diesel engines)
● Instrument cluster control module (which may be part of the cluster itself or a separate black box)
● Keyless entry module
● Lighting module
● Remote start/immobilizer module
● Suspension control module
● Transfer case module (4WD)
● Wiper motor control module
● Vehicle communication module (such as GM OnStar module)
● Plus all kinds of “mini” modules for power windows, power seats, heated/cooled seats, power sliding doors, door locks, sunroofs, air flow control doors inside the Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning (HVAC) system, and so on.

Okay a little off subject, forgive me but I'm and car techie retired.

 

[Pete4]

Funny, I just came across this article few hours after my previous post:
Get ready for car software updates - Jun. 4, 2014

 

[A Guy]

So Windows XP is hardware? That's a strange logic. A Guy

Show me computer without operating system, that is not useless piece of junk and show me usage for Win xp, that does not require some type of computer hardware and I agree with you 100%.
How about this: your 7 year old car is no longer safe to drive on the road because software running on it's 10 or so computers is no longer supported? Far fetched? Not really, we already have systems like GM Onstar, that can access network to call for emergency, once the car can access network, it could be hacked and most computers in a car are networked. You figure the rest.

That makes no sense. It still doesn't make XP hardware. You can take that PC, minus XP and add any OS that will work. And that would be many. The fact that it DOES require hardware is telling. XP is not hardware, plain and simple, regardless of any other discussion. Even people who believe MS should still support XP ( with SOFTWARE updates ),would agree it was not hardware

A Guy