New concern re 10

[sgage]

I agree mostly with what has been said.
I also go back to Dos, MSBasic and even CP/M. Then tried Windows 1, 2 and 3 and found them unusable and stayed with Dos. Then came Windows 3.1. I switched and upgraded right up to win 7. Win 7 had a problem for me. It had the classic theme but the menus were different until I found Classic Shell.
So I've used the classic environment for about 20 years now.

I upgraded to win 10 as a free upgrade from one of my win 7 machines to try it out. 3 days later I downgraded back to win 7.

If I am forced to upgrade to win 10, I thought I might as well check out other options. I looked into Linux. Unfortunately, I could not find (all) drivers even for one of my 4 machines and of course my printer and scanner. I will probably switch to the Mac.

Linux works very well on my current machine - I dual boot with Win7. When this machine dies, we'll have to see what happens. Win7 is available OEM until next October 31...

I gave Win10 a huge try since last October (2014) as an Insider, testing builds all along. I really tried to like it. But I'm a desktop guy, and it offered me less than nothing. The new design language makes my eyes bleed. Why O Why did MS have to mess up a good thing? They could have pursued their 'cloud first/mobile first' thing without ruining the desktop.

My computer is not a phone, or a 'media consumption device'. I don't want to be connected to 'social medai' all the time (or ever, for that matter). I am no longer a part of Microsoft's demographic.

I feel the end of an era coming on...

 

[Baddog22556]

..so why fix a wheel that is not broken? I can see no advantage other than more profits for Microsoft.

Correct answer. Happens every few years. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little -
I hated W98 but loved W98SE. I hated W2K and Vista but love my WXP and will never change.
OK, so W7 is great now too but I fear W10. Why? We all get used to everything in a short time.
W7 will be updated for another 5 years and then probably extended like XP was.
Just like Baskin Robins there are over 31 flavors of Linux and it's all free. So why is not Linux the
gold standard? How about Evolve OS? It's evolution pure and simple. There has been, are and will
continue to be choices. Go for whatever floats your boat and quit swimming upstream.icnic:
(I complain if my ice cream is too cold.)

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Well I am glad that I ma not alone because every post or thread I have done on this very subject has been met mainly with some form of negativity towards what I have been saying and that is the right of choice to use whatever software I like as long as it is legal.

The latest material that I found and linked to here and in the 10 forum was to me at least something that I felt to be going a tad further than what I consider to be good judgment on Microsoft's part to put it mildly.

Now I wonder what would be the outcome (I have rendered this example before somewhere) if a major car manufacturer suddenly decided to install devices that can not be removed from all of their new vehicles that reported back to them where one has driven, when they did that, how much fuel they used, indeed what brand of fuel they used etc etc would anyone here put up with that?? I think not so why put up with Microsoft bulldozing 10 onto our machines without even asking?

I have said and will again that I am resigned to 10 becoming the only system available I just want to use 7 until it becomes obsolete. I know I have been told by many that 10 is not such a bad system and that I should throw away the tin hat but I cannot just stand by and watch it happen without voicing my opinion - have we still not learnt from history that not to question anything opens one up to all sorts of abuse for want of a better term.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

..so why fix a wheel that is not broken? I can see no advantage other than more profits for Microsoft.

Correct answer. Happens every few years. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little -
I hated W98 but loved W98SE. I hated W2K and Vista but love my WXP and will never change.
OK, so W7 is great now too but I fear W10. Why? We all get used to everything in a short time.
W7 will be updated for another 5 years and then probably extended like XP was.
Just like Baskin Robins there are over 31 flavors of Linux and it's all free. So why is not Linux the
gold standard? How about Evolve OS? It's evolution pure and simple. There has been, are and will
continue to be choices. Go for whatever floats your boat and quit swimming upstream.icnic:
(I complain if my ice cream is too cold.)

Actually, Win 7 will be updated for only a hair over four years. EOL is 01/14/2020. I also seriously doubt Win 7's EOL will get extended; M$py is too bound and determined to get people off of it and apparently doesn't care who gets ticked off over it.

 

[Baddog22556]

Sorry. I should have said 4.hair+ years.
Previously, all support for Windows XP Home was slated to end two years after the release of Vista, in other words, at the end of January 2009. Finally ended in April 2014. Why should this be different?
The UK and Dutch governments have paid Microsofthttp://www.theguardian.com/technology/microsoft multiple millions to extend support for Windows XP past the 8 April 2014 cutoff date. China got extend merely by shear numbers still being sold there.
I don't believe anything I hear, half of what I see and then believe less than half of that.

 

[Golden]

I think the thing to do John, is to do whatever you think you need to.

Any opinion you post, will have those for it, and those against it. What is certain is that there is no turning back from Windows 10, and whether you love it or hate it, its not going to change. How you deal with it, is up to you.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Yes I know Colin it just seems at the moment that once it has got set in my mind as to what the system involves - one is hit yet again by new information that adds to the what is an ongoing river of changes that Microsoft is or has got in mind. I just wish they would come out and tell us what is going to happen - I do hate nasty little surprises.

As I have said I am going to use 7 as long as I can and maybe put 10 in one of my laptops to try it again but if it is anything like the last time I tried it because in my mind - it has some way to go to match what 7 has given us ie the GUI which is so easy in 7 and I find rather convoluted in 10.

All the other stuff going on it is a fait accompli :huh:

 

[ThrashZone]

I hear ya I have 10 pro and I doubt I'll use it for months
I've already clean installed it 3 times and it still as buggy as ever.

 

[derekimo]

Now I wonder what would be the outcome (I have rendered this example before somewhere) if a major car manufacturer suddenly decided to install devices that can not be removed from all of their new vehicles that reported back to them where one has driven, when they did that, how much fuel they used, indeed what brand of fuel they used etc etc would anyone here put up with that??

OnStar from GM pretty much does most of that,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar

They charge you for it, but the device(s) are there even if you opt out.

Some of it can actually slow the car down for police if it's stolen.

It's a data mining world now John, everything is collected.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Now I wonder what would be the outcome (I have rendered this example before somewhere) if a major car manufacturer suddenly decided to install devices that can not be removed from all of their new vehicles that reported back to them where one has driven, when they did that, how much fuel they used, indeed what brand of fuel they used etc etc would anyone here put up with that??

OnStar from GM pretty much does most of that,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar

They charge you for it, but the device(s) are there even if you opt out.

Some of it can actually slow the car down for police if it's stolen.

It's a data mining world now John, everything is collected.

Yep Derek seems so eh? I suppose some of the gear is good like the stolen car device - some of it questionable.
Whatever the outcome it is quite sad in a way that something pleasurable is or has become something to be unsure and wary of.

If 10 is as Mike says still buggy because that was another thing that annoyed me when I tried 10 before - why the heck haven't they fixed or the best part of the bugs by now?? Because that smacks of 10 being released far too early.

 

[ThrashZone]

I believe it is very sensitive which makes it buggy in my view,
Just drivers from asus has been a hit and miss adventure then I get to NVidia drivers... and it's just so much more unstable than 7 is
Just too early still I suppose
I'm not quite ready to make constant system images yet
Possibly in a week or two when I get my other hdd's delivered I can restore in inches rather than from scratch every time I can't seem to uninstall something.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Just drivers from asus has been a hit and miss adventure then I get to NVidia drivers... and it's just so much more unstable than 7 is

Hmm that is a worry as most of my gear is Asus - boards and on board gear - NVidia to boot.

Anyway I shall just try again if only to find out what I need turned on or off - not real keen on the features I have only vaguely heard about ie the Cortana?? one, and anything that off machine storage.

 

[ThrashZone]

Yep well I would say some drivers like corsair link just isn't ready for 10 yet might never be it is one of the utilities I could not uninstall
10 system restore sucks of course besides starting from scratch that is which is the most fun :/

Other stuff usb3.... is sketchy at best still have Unknown devices
So getting everything up and running is a chore for me anyway
I suppose 10 is take it like it is and be happy who knows the more I add the more frustrating 10 becomes
Also can be said for the more I restrict in group policy the weirder 10 gets
Seems more irritating than anything.

Odd thing is I believe I had fewer issues on my Acer board and it's supposedly not compatible

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Hmm Mike looks like I have something to look forward to when I eventually get round to it.

I don't know much about programming or such but it seems to me some have not put in much forethought to say the least.

 

[Cr00zng]

There is NO way MS can ever force you into downgrading to Win10, even though they're very aggressive about it and many attacks have been launched from Windows Update. The fundamental thing to understand is that MS (or anyone else, for the matter) have no control over your computer, there is no magical button they touch and the whole world becomes infected with Win10. They rely on the backdoors they install to "phone home" and get instructions, but ultimate it's software running on our computers what put Win10 all over the place.

There is an excellent article related to this security issue: Ten Immutable Laws Of Security (ironically enough, from MS). Of particular importance here are the first two "laws":

Law #1: If a bad guy can persuade you to run his program on your computer, it's not solely your computer anymore.
Law #2: If a bad guy can alter the operating system on your computer, it's not your computer anymore.

Thanks for the link...

The content is pretty much on spot, but the title of "Ten Immutable Laws of Security (Version 2.0)" made me laugh. Immutable and Version 2.0!? :roflmao::roflmao: Contradicting terms it seems...

The "bad guy" reference in Law #1 and #2 is misleading in my view. It should be replaced by "any guy" that seems more suitable for these laws. In which case, the laws are applicable to Microsoft, among other software companies as well.

The thing is, a bad guy must install something on your computer to take over it, and MS already did that. Since many months ago Windows Update has been used to infect users with the GWX malware. Without it, MS has NO WAY to touch anything in your computer, unless the user does a blunder and somehow installs anything dangerous.
Keep GWX at bay and Win10 will never knock your door. Fundamentally, that means avoiding "Win10-related" updates like the plague, or if you've already been hit, deleting, blocking, or otherwise preventing its execution will minimize any risks of finding your computer taken over. After all, we have Windows Firewall, AppLocker, Software Restriction Policies, File system permissions built-in, and loads of external security tools to protect from it, plus a reasonable amount of information about how the infection behaves. Tame GWX and Win10 is history, plain and simple.
(of course, here I'm assuming it's the only malware MS deployed without consent, assumption that can easily be wrong)

While most of you in this thread are sticking to Windows 7 and 8.x, instead of updating to Windows 10, both versions had been retrofitted with the data collection updates and they pretty much do the same as Windows 10 does. For that matter, Office 2013 had been retrofitted with Office 2016 data collection code. GWX is the only visible update for the end users, other data collection updates have no end user interface.

Yes, one can prevent installing the data collection updates, or uninstall them if they slipped by (too little too late). Most people don't have the time or knowledge to do that. As such, only the minority of the end users complain about these updates, mainly techies. That's a relatively small percentage of the end users and as such, Microsoft will continue with the data collection in Windows 7 and later versions, weather we like it or not.

There had been what, about 200 million installation of Windows in its first five month; that's about 40 million installs per month. Microsoft's goal of one billion installs of Windows 10 in three years is at least on schedule, or most likely will be completed earlier.

Yeah, no... "taming GWX" does not make Windows 10 history. Not to mention that Microsoft could just issue a hidden GWX that upgrades previous versions of Windows at the next time time the system is rebooted. That's pretty much had been stated in the article, quote:

From next year Windows 10 will automatically begin installing on most Windows 7 and 8.1 machines.

Users will still need to confirm the installation manually for it to continue. However, if they choose not to proceed it's unclear if they can cancel it altogether, with Jeremy Korst, general manager of the Windows and Devices team at Microsoft, saying only that "the customer will have the ability to delay it for some period".

In another word, prepare for the inevitable... much sooner than the EoL support for Windows 7 and 8.1...

 

[scr]

Sounds more and more like W10 is still in Beta release, strictly my opinion.

My best hope is that after July, 2016 MS will leave me alone to enjoy W7 to it's EOL. In 4 years my systems will be 7 and 5 years old and I'll be 74. I'll decide what to do then if I'm still able to remember how to turn a computer on and why I did. Until then I refuse to be assimilated. I've had enough of MS since they went so aggressively to the dark side, again strictly my opinion.

I will be strongly considering the possibility of a Mac if for no other reason then to give Apple the opportunity to tick me off for my remaining years or maybe I'll just turn the TV back on and give up on computers altogether.

On Edit: If it's not against the rules of the forum.. Can I get some advice on how to completely block MS in all shape and form?

 

[ThrashZone]

Hmm Mike looks like I have something to look forward to when I eventually get round to it.

I don't know much about programming or such but it seems to me some have not put in much forethought to say the least.

Yea I'm not sure what or how well it would go for a laptop if that's what you have or would upgrade ?
It's just been trial and error for me which is why I stopped until I get my back up system setup
All I'm doing now is spinning my wheels.

 

[bigmck]

Sounds more and more like W10 is still in Beta release, strictly my opinion.

My best hope is that after July, 2016 MS will leave me alone to enjoy W7 to it's EOL. In 4 years my systems will be 7 and 5 years old and I'll be 74. I'll decide what to do then if I'm still able to remember how to turn a computer on and why I did. Until then I refuse to be assimilated. I've had enough of MS since they went so aggressively to the dark side, again strictly my opinion.

I will be strongly considering the possibility of a Mac if for no other reason then to give Apple the opportunity to tick me off for my remaining years or maybe I'll just turn the TV back on and give up on computers altogether.

On Edit: If it's not against the rules of the forum.. Can I get some advice on how to completely block MS in all shape and form?

You can go into the Control Panel under Windows Update and not accept any Updates from Microsoft. I would not advise that. Most of the Updates that you receive will be for Windows 7.

 

[Baddog22556]

Microsoft is working on two updates to the Windows 10 core, codenamed 'Redstone,' that are targeted to arrive in 2016. Evolution is to move forward. The more things change the more they remain the same.

 

[Cr00zng]

Sounds more and more like W10 is still in Beta release, strictly my opinion.

My best hope is that after July, 2016 MS will leave me alone to enjoy W7 to it's EOL. In 4 years my systems will be 7 and 5 years old and I'll be 74. I'll decide what to do then if I'm still able to remember how to turn a computer on and why I did. Until then I refuse to be assimilated. I've had enough of MS since they went so aggressively to the dark side, again strictly my opinion.

I will be strongly considering the possibility of a Mac if for no other reason then to give Apple the opportunity to tick me off for my remaining years or maybe I'll just turn the TV back on and give up on computers altogether.

On Edit: If it's not against the rules of the forum.. Can I get some advice on how to completely block MS in all shape and form?*

*-Emphasis mine...

The only way to completely block MS is, well, don't install MS software. It's as simple as that...

The chances are that you were looking for how make MS leave alone your Windows 7 now. If that's the case, you can find it in the tutorial at this forum here. I doubt that discussing this is against the forum rules....