Normal service is resumed as Windows 7's growth once again.....

[gregrocker]

I have no beef with you but it's you who seem to be taking it personally. I was shocked at the personal level of attack I've read, while my qualms have only been aimed at the New Coke OS.

It was at Eight Forums where several complimented me for being independent and courageous to speak the truth as I see it despite MS having given me four times an award for the help I've given Win7 consumers. I do this because I realize that award is for Windows 7 and someone needs to speak strongly in its defense since MS has moved on from it so cleanly that its only remaining advocacy is here at these forums. This is where we support the most popular OS ever yet feel the need to defend it's continuance.

It is the tech media that hacks away at Windows 8 mercilessly and the sales figures don't lie. Take that issue up with them. I have done my best to make it work and had enough of it. I have tens of thousands of more to help here. They can take away my MVP for speaking my mind, but I will not stop loving and supporting Windows 7 at the highest level of quality to be found until one of us breathes our last breath. The work is its own reward.

 

[Kari]

Greg, in no way did I "attack" you. I told my opinion about your childish behavior, thats all. If someone not liking Windows 7 would start using the terms you use about Windows 8, you'd be first on barricades to defense Seven and condemn the use of such language. I am sure of that.

 

[gregrocker]

Kari, what is childish about coining a term for the Apps that also points out the opinion some are "crapware," which is a common term used here to describe troublesome software that is nemesis to the OS?

Asus puts out crapware but also has the best hardware. It's a fact based on experience.

Don't you agree the apps need to be hidden by a Start menu download? Your posts are about how easy it is to get rid of them.

Few actually ever had similar criticism about Windows 7, mostly all oldsters wanting it to get off their XP lawn. It was hilarious.

 

[Layback Bear]

I have no doubt that their are geeks around the world and many on this forum that can make Windows 8 or any other operating system work pretty much the way they want it to.

The problem is most users are not geeks and don't want to be geeks.
They just want the computer to turn on and off.
While the computer is on they just want to be able to use it without no tricks, change this or that with download this and that.
These are things that are simple to do for most on this forum but not for the average user.
The average user is where the sales must come from for a operating system to make the ON Broadway Stage.
Windows 8 is still Off Broadway.

Sales always has been and always will be a major factor judging how good a operating system is. You can be sure Microsoft is watching sales very closely.

To me one of the reasons for Pay To Poke is to try and slow down counterfeiting. It will give companies a better way to see who has paid for what. Counterfeiting cost Microsoft billions of dollars. It does the same for companies like Adobe,the entertainment businesses ect.

The problem as I see it; many like me get caught in the middle.

We just want to buy a operating system and programs. Register them and use them on our systems. When I ask for updates my COA is checked and bingo I get my updates. That's it; done.
No cloud programs with passwords, no monthly or yearly payments ect.
A good payment plan to me is 100% down and no installments.

Here I go again shooting off my big keyboard.

 

[Wrend]

I believe the defense is strong, because the defenders truly like 8. It's not so difficult to understand. Those who like 8 and have "figured it out", so to speak, see it's good side. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but they actually like it and have experience with 7 as well. I think their points have merit, and they just want to make sure people here don't just read the negative, and keep their assumption (acquired by reading others opinions) that 8 is crap. A Guy

On the other hand and relatively speaking (that is, as these things go), it may be conventionally appropriate that people can in part form their opinions based on the opinions (and the reasons for them) that other people have.

Sure, some people like Windows 8 (/8.1), but a lot (most?) don't care for it. So what's the harm in taking into account other people's opinions? It seems to me that many (not all) of the proponents of Windows 8 feel that their opinions about it are somehow more valid than those who don't care for it, and that they think that people who don't care for it are largely only ignorant to it's true greatness. Well, I have news for those of you that feel that way: it's hogwash, and someone needs to set you straight.

To assume that people need to experience Windows 8 more fully (that is, bothering to install it on their computer, or using another computer with Windows 8 on it for an extended period of time) to form a legitimate opinion on it is an arbitrary and false line in the sand. Sure, people would likely get more familiar with using and navigating Windows 8 by using it more, but what's the point in being bothered to do that if someone isn't in the market for a new OS and likes the one they're using? Just to find out how much they dislike or like something they don't want in the first place? No offense, but that's ridiculous.

OK, we get it, you (people who like Windows 8) like Windows 8, but also understand that many (most?) people don't care for it, especially not when used on a standard desktop PC/workstation, and just because you don't share the same opinion as these people, your opinion is not somehow more valid. It's just another drop in the sea.

Of course, this is not to say that people who don't care for Windows 8 and don't leave room for understanding that some people do care for it and have legitimate reasons for their opinions aren't also being unreasonable.

...

So with that out of the way, here are the reasons I don't care for Windows 8:

The start app screen is annoyingly ugly (yes, my opinion) and largely only serves to get in the way of what I would consider to be a more practical and functional UI. I don't even use desktop icons, let alone not caring for this funky looking tile setup. Yes, I could (for the most part) set up Windows 8 to be able to avoid this kind of UI, but what is the point in using a version of Windows where I need to set it up to get back to the UI that I currently have without having to go through the trouble of taking the time to set up a new version of Windows?

I don't care for the unintuitive and obscure (yes, still my opinion) settings navigation and menu locations. There seems to be an overall lack of linear logical progression in the way many of Windows 8's controls, menus, and various settings locations are accessed.

I don't want to support Microsoft by purchasing nor using what I feel is largely just an overall useless OS update that is part of an ill conceived attempt to herd and lump PC and mobile devices users together into a newer Microsoft money making scheme and attempt to become relevant in the mobile/handheld PC market.

And of course, there's no reason for me to update from Windows 7 which functions the way I want it to and does what I want it to to an OS that offers no significant advantages to what I'm using now and would require some modification to set it so that it would function similarly to what I'm already using.

What I like about Windows 8:

Disregarding irrelevant (for my needs) reboot and reload from hibernation times, I hear it's a little faster at running some things, though I can't really tell any difference on the various computers that I've used that have it or Windows 7 installed that have comparable hardware specs. Yeah, that's the only thing I can think of.

 

[z3r010]

I use 8 and I really cant see any difference other than it boots faster and it a little more updated in places than Windows 7 (task manager etc).

The problem is the Window 8 brand just like Vista is toxic (I had no problems with Vista either), the best thing MSFT can do now is put a start menu back in, demote metro/modern ui and relaunch it as Windows 9.

 

[gregrocker]

Do you think they'd want Metro tiles on phones and tablets, 7-style Start Menu on laptops and desktops?

Then they lose the ability to put Apps front and center on laptops and desktops, so the subscription service Business Plan would need to finally be given up for those devices.

They seem to have bet the company on that Business plan going forward. When do you see them breaking it?

The problem for them is the success of building a desktop for 20 years that drives the world economy, then trying to reverse it in one OS. Had 8 been for only touch devices this could have been avoided. But it's the new Business Plan that seems to be the real driving factor for them.

 

[z3r010]

You don't need to see or use metro, I've not seen it in months so what is the problem?

 

[Britton30]

The good thing is MS is allowing OEMs to sell w7 machine until Oct 2014, if you can find one.

Starting with Windows 95 MS introduced us to a WOW! type of interface (GUI) and we loved, it and sales confirmed that. with each new MS OS even a caveman could use it. It was quite intuitive I though, except one pushed a Start button to shut it off.

Win 8 has been lackluster in sales and at 1 year 9 months in has just about a 10% market share of all OSes in use worldwide. w7 is currently at about 50% and is gaining due to the demise of XP which recently fell under 25%, the remaining 15% is Apple, Linux and older MS products.

Win 8 mobile products have been a failure too prompting MS to acquire some of Nokia and market a Windows/Android phone.

 

[gregrocker]

OK, so restore in 9 a Start menu that suppresses Metro, or only build Metro for phones and tablets? Would that still be 9?

I guess I'm asking how do they make one OS for both touch and not?

 

[Layback Bear]

I do agree John.
Take the good things from Windows 8 and Windows 7 and combine them into Windows 9. I will buy it.

I would rather see that in a Windows 7 SP-2 but that isn't going to happen. SP's are free. Microsoft want to see operating system and I don't blame them for that.

Just don't try to make Windows 9 cross platform.
I don't want Windows 9 to work like a tablet or phone.

 

[Kari]

This "I don't want a touch OS" hysteria never stops amazing me. Apart of two mobile phones I don't have nor think I get a touch device or screen. One of the reasons I like Windows 8.1 so much is the flexibility, how fast and easy it is to use the Modern interface with mouse and keybord.

As I have said earlier, a lot of this complaining is about an additional feature which the user must never see or use.

 

[z3r010]

MSFT have a pattern in the Windows releases (note 98se and XP sp2 really were different OS's and MSFT wanted to originally release them as such)

95 - good
98 - unstable as hell
98 se - good
ME - it was ME nuff said
2000 - awesome rock solid
XP - buggy as hell
XP sp2 - great
Vista - badly managed minimum specs meant it was run on machines that it shouldn't so was generally seen as bad.
W7 - Great
W8 - no leaks or start menu alienated the community from the start leading to it being more toxic than Vista.
W8.1.x - pretty good now but the brand is too toxic to make up any ground with the public

W9 - If it follows the good bad trends then is should be awesome.

 

[Boozad]

Apart from the differences between 7 and 8 and the opinions people have about both, I'm more concerned that MS operating systems are soon going to be coming out more regularly than the annual installments of Call of Duty. Three years (or there abouts) after 7 we had 8, and now in less than two years we're on the verge of 9. I love 7, I'm getting much more used to 8.1, and no doubt I'll be intrigued by 9. But to have 9 I'd have to sacrifice one of the former two to run it on my main rig which is something I don't really want to do. 7 is still amazing, 8 is becoming a very good second OS.
I feel that Microsoft's ballsed up foray into the mobile market is affecting us much more than it's affecting them. They screwed up big time, that's clear enough from the amount of changes they made to 8, and while a lot of people are still against 8 surely the legwork required to make it into the desktop version the average user wants straight out of the box would be easier (and less confusing) than releasing a third OS in six years?

 

[Britton30]

Also I thought XP SP3 was nearly a new OS too.

 

[gregrocker]

IMO they really only need Win9 to sort out touch devices then keep Win7 rolling on with a SP2.

Who says an OS can't have a 10 year life when it's this good?

I understand Planned obsolescence but this is more like smothered in crib. Why hide retail copies? Why deny a SP2 to the great inconvenience of customers?

 

[Layback Bear]

The first thing I require in a new operating system is simple like me.
Give me something usable and better than what I already have in some major way.

I have no problem turning off things or downloading a pdf reader or something to watch movies with.
I like to be able to get things from Microsoft because they seem to work better with their operating systems.
App's priced right I also don't have a problem with.
Look what it cost to get something from Microsoft just to read a pdf file.

 

[z3r010]

App's priced right I also don't have a problem with.
Look what it cost to get something from Microsoft just to read a pdf file.

PDF reader is native in W8

 

[andrew129260]

You don't need to see or use metro, I've not seen it in months so what is the problem?

This "I don't want a touch OS" hysteria never stops amazing me. Apart of two mobile phones I don't have nor think I get a touch device or screen. One of the reasons I like Windows 8.1 so much is the flexibility, how fast and easy it is to use the Modern interface with mouse and keybord.

As I have said earlier, a lot of this complaining is about an additional feature which the user must never see or use.

Friends, the issue I had been bringing up for windows 8 users was this:

Average users would not know where to go to turn that off. (boot right to desktop) They also do not know how to correct file associations or how to not use the metro programs. So many people I know get trapped in the metro area and cannot figure out how to get out of it.

I show them, there like oh and usually it does not happen again. The key point is I have to show them.
Customers should be able to use the most basic functions of a pc without needing a guru.


They have no idea. For you, its a simple check box. For them its a frustrating machine that does what it wants and not what the customer wants.

Windows 8 is fine, if your a geek. The average public is not. And that is why it is not selling. It is not cause windows 8 is bad, its cause there own customers do not know how to use it.

That is why. I have people coming to me, (even with the 8.1 update) and they open the metro internet explorer, and do not know how to get out of it. I have had 2 woman cry about it-they were that frustrated. They felt so stupid because they could not figure out how to close out of it.

I have other people, who are running windows 8, and never got the 8.1 update.

Why? Because Microsoft decided you need to visit there store to get it, instead of it being put through windows update. There is no popup remind you to upgrade to 8.1. It is only found in the store. So what does that mean? The average user has no idea, will not think to install it. They see it as another annoying update and feel it is not needed. So now what happens? No more security updates for you!


The issue is not windows 8 necessarily. (regardless of my disagreements with the hidden interface options)

The issue is no documentation for average users who experienced a huge change in there interface that is nothing like what they are used to. (Yes I know about the tiny little demo shown to point your mouse to the corners. That is not enough.)

Another customer I had come in thought that windows 8 was only in metro mode. They did not even see the desktop tile or knew what that meant. They thought they had to use apps, and had to use Microsoft store and account.

And that right there is what Microsoft is betting on.

Microsoft's plan is to kill the desktop. They want to become a walled garden like the other mobile operating systems. They want to lock people in.

And that is preciously why I will not support this OS. I am voting with my feet. And clearly, so are a lot of others. (Yes some for the wrong reasons.)

MHO

Nothing wrong with windows 8, you like what you like. I like what I like.

And its a operating system. So lets just all be friends.

 

[Layback Bear]

App's priced right I also don't have a problem with.
Look what it cost to get something from Microsoft just to read a pdf file.

PDF reader is native in W8

Another goodie that should be in Windows 9.