Possible budget gaming PC build?

[ratman]

I'll go for the 5850 because it has slightly higher performance for a slightly higher yet affordable cost. I know, the benefits are minimal, I just believe that the 5850 has better drivers, has been around longer and is more well known.

Oh, and the 5850 is slightly shorter, meaning that there will be more room in my case.

 

[parabellum]

I'll go for the 5850 because it has slightly higher performance for a slightly higher yet affordable cost. I know, the benefits are minimal, I just believe that the 5850 has better drivers, has been around longer and is more well known.

Oh, and the 5850 is slightly shorter, meaning that there will be more room in my case.

I have 2 or 3cm in my Two Hundred. Extra room doesn't really mean much.

 

[Fumz]

The 5870 is less than 10% faster then the 6870 and the 6870's tessellation is far superior as it has more ALU's then the 5870 - over 20% more. The 6850 also matches or exceeds said 5850.

That the 6800's have better tessellation than the 5800's matters little; they run games slower than the 5800's... and that's often the bottom line, right.

Not enough to make a difference.

XFX Radeon HD 6870 Review | Maximum PC

Trying to talk honestly about hardware with a fanboy is always difficult. Why is calling a spade a spade is so difficult? The 6800's are a disappointment... that much is painfully obvious to anyone who looks at the data. They're often slower than the cards they're replacing. In the few cases where they're not, they're not faster by much. Did you miss the links I posted?

1920x1080, Games that the 6870 is slower than the 5870: Bad Company 2, Modern Warfare 2, Crysis Warhead, Far Cry 2, Metro 2033, Stalker CoP, Lost Planet 2, Fallout New Vegas, Dirt 2, Battleforge, and, according to the link you provided, Hawx.

1920x1080, Games that the 6870 is faster than the 5870: Aliens vs Predator, Mass Effect 2, Hawx 2, Starcraft II.

but hey, the 6800 has better tessellation.

Despite these uncomfortable facts, here you are suggesting that the newer slower cards have, "outclassed" their predecessor, and when called on it, you say, "they're not slower by much".

I mean c'mon... this is just nonsense. I fear if you keep bending over backwards trying to defend these products you may injure yourself.

 

[ratman]

Which will be better with overclocking: 5850 or 6850

 

[smarteyeball]

Do you have to build right now, or can you afford to wait a few more weeks?


Do you have a MSY 'close by' to you?




6870 (Gigabyte) No stock atm but for a few dollars more, it would be a better choice.
Gigabyte ATI AMD HD6870 1Gb for $278 @ NetPlus - Cheapest Computers - Perth Western Australia

6870 (Sapphire) In Stock, but the price difference between the Giga and Sapphire is questionable
Sapphire ATI AMD HD6870 1Gb for $319 @ NetPlus - Cheapest Computers - Perth Western Australia

470 (Personally I'd avoid Palit - stock also an issue)
GeForce GTX470 1280Mb DDR5 for $319 @ NetPlus - Cheapest Computers - Perth Western Australia

The 470 is a decent performer, but is hot and noisy.

6870 (XFX from PLE - NFI if it's in stock, or has manual voltage adjustment for Overclocking purposes)

PLE Computers Perth, Online Shopping, Computers, Notebooks, Hardware, Service and Repairs

(PLE seems to be a bit on the pricey side)


There's not really much worth looking at PLE or netplus for decent RAM. Again, either stick with what you've chosen or raise the budget and order elsewhere.

If you do order from other places, add a few items to make the postage worthwhile.

Which will be better with overclocking: 5850 or 6850

5850's with voltage adjustable chips are proven to be decent overclockers.


Realistically, going for a 6xxx series would be a better choice in the long run. AMD tend to concentrate most of their 'driver development' for the most current gen cards. Older gens are treated like the poor relations.

 

[parabellum]

That the 6800's have better tessellation than the 5800's matters little; they run games slower than the 5800's... and that's often the bottom line, right.

Not enough to make a difference.

XFX Radeon HD 6870 Review | Maximum PC

Trying to talk honestly about hardware with a fanboy is always difficult. Why is calling a spade a spade is so difficult? The 6800's are a disappointment... that much is painfully obvious to anyone who looks at the data. They're often slower than the cards they're replacing. In the few cases where they're not, they're not faster by much. Did you miss the links I posted?

1920x1080, Games that the 6870 is slower than the 5870: Bad Company 2, Modern Warfare 2, Crysis Warhead, Far Cry 2, Metro 2033, Stalker CoP, Lost Planet 2, Fallout New Vegas, Dirt 2, Battleforge, and, according to the link you provided, Hawx.

1920x1080, Games that the 6870 is faster than the 5870: Aliens vs Predator, Mass Effect 2, Hawx 2, Starcraft II.

but hey, the 6800 has better tessellation.

Despite these uncomfortable fact, here you are suggesting that the newer slower cards have, "outclassed" their predecessor, and when called on it, you say, "they're not slower by much".

I mean c'mon... this is just nonsense. I fear if you keep bending over backwards trying to defend these products you may injure yourself.

Slower then 10% is irrelevant. You really think you'll notice 43FPS vs 46FPS? I doubt it.

 

[SlackerITGuy]

What I'd change is the Video card. The HD 5850, while a great solid card, is "somewhat" old, in fact, for that kind of money, you could probably get a HD 6870 or a GTX 470 (much better choices).

The price of a 5850 is still cheaper than a 470/6870 here in Aus (Roughly $100)

Stock availability for the 6870 is also still a bit of an issue. A newer card would be preferable, but it's up to ratman how far he can extend his budget.

The same applies to the RAM. For decent 1600mhz+, regardless of Brand it ranges from double to triple the amount of the value Kingston.

As for card dimensions:

5850
24.13 cm X 12 cm X 4 cm

6870

10.3 x 4.4 x 1.5 inches (about 26 cm)

(for comparison of a potential future Large card upgrade)

5970
30.5 cm x 10 cm x 3.3 cm

That case will fit a 5850/6870 - may be pushing it for 'mega long' cards


Ratman, where are you sourcing your parts from? PCCG, MSY etc?

LOL I totally ignored the fact that he lived in Australia, my bad .

Getting back on topic, I found this GIGABYTE Radeon HD 6870 for just under $280 on the web site he posted on one of his posts, here:

Gigabyte ATI AMD HD6870 1Gb for $278 @ NetPlus - Cheapest Computers - Perth Western Australia

Definitely the card I'd go for.

6870 > 5850.

EDIT: BTW what's with the 5870 vs 6870 comparisons?

The 6870 wasn't released to replace the 5870.

 

[ratman]

Do you have to build right now, or can you afford to wait a few more weeks?


Do you have a MSY 'close by' to you?




6870 (Gigabyte) No stock atm but for a few dollars more, it would be a better choice.
Gigabyte ATI AMD HD6870 1Gb for $278 @ NetPlus - Cheapest Computers - Perth Western Australia

6870 (Sapphire) In Stock, but the price difference between the Giga and Sapphire is questionable
Sapphire ATI AMD HD6870 1Gb for $319 @ NetPlus - Cheapest Computers - Perth Western Australia

470 (Personally I'd avoid Palit - stock also an issue)
GeForce GTX470 1280Mb DDR5 for $319 @ NetPlus - Cheapest Computers - Perth Western Australia

The 470 is a decent performer, but is hot and noisy.

6870 (XFX from PLE - NFI if it's in stock, or has manual voltage adjustment for Overclocking purposes)

PLE Computers Perth, Online Shopping, Computers, Notebooks, Hardware, Service and Repairs

(PLE seems to be a bit on the pricey side)


There's not really much worth looking at PLE or netplus for decent RAM. Again, either stick with what you've chosen or raise the budget and order elsewhere.

If you do order from other places, add a few items to make the postage worthwhile.

Which will be better with overclocking: 5850 or 6850

5850's with voltage adjustable chips are proven to be decent overclockers.


Realistically, going for a 6xxx series would be a better choice in the long run. AMD tend to concentrate most of their 'driver development' for the most current gen cards. Older gens are treated like the poor relations.

Ok, I do have an MSY close by me. I had a look and they seem to do a better deal for the motherboard. With the money saved by going for MSY on the MOBO I can get a sapphire 6870 from netplus. But, what do you mean by the price difference between giga and sapphire is questionable? Is that good or bad?


In the end, this is it. Should that be alright?

Intel Core i5 760 CPU $211.00
Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 $125.00
2 x 2Gb DDR3 1333 Corsair Memory $56.00
Sapphire ATI AMD HD6870 1Gb $319.00
1000Gb 1Tb Seagate SATA2 32Mb $63.00
Benq Black 24X SATA DVD Writer $34.00
ANTEC TRUEPOWER NEW 650W $145.00
Antec VSK-2000 ATX Black $69.00
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit DVD OEM $108.00

 

[parabellum]

A Phenom 965 is $167 and a decent mobo - Gigabyte 870A-UD3 - is $121 if you want to save more.

 

[ratman]

A Phenom 965 is $167 and a decent mobo - Gigabyte 870A-UD3 - is $121 if you want to save more.

But they are AMD, correct?

I will probably be using Iintel.

 

[parabellum]

A Phenom 965 is $167 and a decent mobo - Gigabyte 870A-UD3 - is $121 if you want to save more.

But they are AMD, correct?

I will probably be using Iintel.

Yes, and the system in my specs is nearly identical. I know you'll save money and have plenty of performance left over.

 

[Fumz]

Which will be better with overclocking: 5850 or 6850

I don't know about that one. I stopped OC'ing video cards a long time ago. I would imagine they're both about the same as far as headroom goes, but I could be wrong? In any event, you should make your choice based on your games because clearly, the results are all over the place... get what's going to work best on what you play. I would also heed smarteyeball's advice and wait for the better cards/vendors if at all possible.

... Slower then 10% is irrelevant. You really think you'll notice 43FPS vs 46FPS? I doubt it.

My point isn't about the card's performance, per se, it's that you're blowing a bunch of sunshine up the OP's keister with all your misleading posts. Let's dispense with the "up is down, slower = outclassing" stuff, and don't get bothered when someone posts a more fact based opinion: it's a good card, but it's got its limitations. Just be straight up and we're good.

 

[parabellum]

Which will be better with overclocking: 5850 or 6850

I don't know about that one. I stopped OC'ing video cards a long time ago. I would imagine they're both about the same as far as headroom goes, but I could be wrong? In any event, you should make your choice based on your games because clearly, the results are all over the place... get what's going to work best on what you play. I would also heed smarteyeball's advice and wait for the better cards/vendors if at all possible.

... Slower then 10% is irrelevant. You really think you'll notice 43FPS vs 46FPS? I doubt it.

My point isn't about the card's performance, per se, it's that you're blowing a bunch of sunshine up the OP's keister with all your misleading posts. Let's dispense with the "up is down, slower = outclassing" stuff, and don't get bothered when someone posts a more fact based opinion: it's a good card, but it's got its limitations. Just be straight up and we're good.

Sunshine? I know its limitations but it holds its ground over the 5870 - cheaper, better tess performance and it isn't that much slower.

 

[Fumz]

Sunshine? I know its limitations but it holds its ground under the 5870 - cheaper, better tess performance and it isn't that much slower.

Fixed.

 

[parabellum]

Sunshine? I know its limitations but it holds its ground under the 5870 - cheaper, better tess performance and it isn't that much slower.

Fixed.

I'll concede that we'll agree to disagree.

 

[Wishmaster]

Wishmaster, are you talking about Intel's Nehalem archictecture vs AMD's? There really is no noticeable difference between an Athlon quad vs an Intel quad at 1080p:

PassMark Intel vs AMD CPU Benchmarks - High End

Even tested with only a CPU benchmark a few hundred point difference is minimal. Both are native quad's and both have high enough clocks for games. Given the price difference, the Athlon isn't that bad.

No, I was refering to CPUs in general. AMD and Intel alike.
The raw clock speed doesn't mean much.

If you see a 3.0 Ghz CPU for example, it may actually be slower than a 2.5 Ghz of a different architechture.

So,faster doesn't always mean better.

 

[smarteyeball]

LOL I totally ignored the fact that he lived in Australia, my bad .

Getting back on topic, I found this GIGABYTE Radeon HD 6870 for just under $280 on the web site he posted on one of his posts, here:

Gigabyte ATI AMD HD6870 1Gb for $278 @ NetPlus - Cheapest Computers - Perth Western Australia

That's cool mate. Being a fellow Aussie - I'm used to to playing the 'limited availability game'. Some juggling and extra sourcing is a regular event

I linked that same cheaper Giga card that you did, but it wasn't currently in stock.

EDIT: BTW what's with the 5870 vs 6870 comparisons?

The 6870 wasn't released to replace the 5870.

True. The 6870 currently sits somewhere between the 5850/5870 performance wise. Spec wise the 5870 is the superior card, but the advantage will end up going towards the 6870. (Driver focus, crossfire scaling blah blah)

Ok, I do have an MSY close by me. I had a look and they seem to do a better deal for the motherboard. With the money saved by going for MSY on the MOBO I can get a sapphire 6870 from netplus.

Make sure you ring / e-mail MSY beforehand to see if they have the board in stock, or at least an eta when they do.

Sapphire has a good rep card wise. So did Giga's. Giga's also have a good Australian RMA process. (localised HQ = quicker turnaround)

But, what do you mean by the price difference between giga and sapphire is questionable? Is that good or bad?

Bad in the fact that some e-tailers like to list an 'out of stock' item at a much lower price and then they jack the price up when it does actually become available.


I don't want you to order an out of stock card and have them ask for extra money when it's actually in stock.

In the end, this is it. Should that be alright?

Intel Core i5 760 CPU $211.00
Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 $125.00
2 x 2Gb DDR3 1333 Corsair Memory $56.00
Sapphire ATI AMD HD6870 1Gb $319.00
1000Gb 1Tb Seagate SATA2 32Mb $63.00
Benq Black 24X SATA DVD Writer $34.00
ANTEC TRUEPOWER NEW 650W $145.00
Antec VSK-2000 ATX Black $69.00
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit DVD OEM $108.00

Yep

It will do the job plus there is room to tweak and improve.

But just to annoy you more with a little nitpicking, do you envision yourself ever crossfiring down the track?

If yes, a beefier PSU would be preferable. If not - it's perfectly fine.


Hard drive: If you can get a Samsung 1TB F3 for the same price, grab the Samsung. There is flap all difference, but the Samsung does have a miniscule edge.



@ parabellum

No-one is knocking AMD, or saying they are bad - but the OP has stated a preference for an intel based system.

That is what we have been helping him with

 

[TechnoMan]

Ok, I do have an MSY close by me. ?

The one in Balcatta or Cannington? The Balcatta one just strikes me as a boganish type of place

 

[ratman]

Either one that is closer and has stock.

To answer smarteyeball, no i probably won't be doing crossfire stuff until wayyyyyy down the track, so it would be easier to just get the minimum until later.

 

[Golden]

Chaps,

Sorry to butt in on the post, but was wondering what your experience are with SATA HDD's? I've always used Western Digital WD10EARS 1TB but have found issues with at least 3. I was thinking of trying Samsung next...what are your thoughts?

I get my gear from www.allneeds.com.au ... perhaps they just went through a bad patch?

Golden