Question about MSE

[GianniDPC]

Hello, Everyone at SF

My questions is does MSE (Microsoft Security Essentials) need Windows Update to be able to update automatic ?

Because I prefer to set Windows Update 'To tell me first about updates before downloading and installing'

 

[whs]

MSE seems to be strange. Most definition updates seem to come automatically, but then there are also MSE updates that come via the normal update routine. And those are also marked as definition updates. I never figured out the difference.

Btw: I think MSE is not as great as some people say. I caught 2 nasties when it was on my system. Had to set back to a prior image. I went back to NIS 2012. But my wife still uses it without any problems. But she works everything thru the AOL browser.

 

[GianniDPC]

MSE seems to be strange. Most definition updates seem to come automatically, but then there are also MSE updates that come via the normal update routine. And those are also marked as definition updates. I never figured out the difference.

Well I'll see how it goes I registry edited MSE to check for updates Every Hour ....

(Standard is 24h)

 

[codekiddy]

AFAIK, If you turn off windows update then MSE will not update it self (only you can update it manulay then)
if windows update is set to "check for updates but let me choose wether to download or install them....." then you'll see when new updates becomes available while checking for updates manualy or when WIN Update checks.

you also need to turn off MSE update during each quick scaning under MSE >> settings >> scaduled scan and uncheck check for lates virus & spyware before runing scaduled scan checkbox.
see here:

 

[GianniDPC]

AFAIK, If you turn off windows update then MSE will not update it self (only you can update it manulay then)
if windows update is set to "check for updates but let me choose....." then you'll see when new updates becomes available while checking for updates manualy or when WIN Update checks.

you also need to turn off MSE update during each quick scaning under MSE >> settings >> scaduled scan and uncheck check for lates virus & spyware... checkbox.

Yes but I want it to be auto updated but only MSE, Not Windows based Updates (I want to install these myself)

MSE is a light nice AV but if it needs Windows Update to update that's a bit stupid ....

 

[codekiddy]

Yes but I want it to be auto updated but only MSE, Not Windows based Updates (I want to install these myself)

MSE is a light nice AV but if it needs Windows Update to update that's a bit stupid ....

I think you can achieve this in only one way:
1 .set windows updates to manualy checking
2. set MSE so that quick scan runs once per day(each day).
3. make sure MSE update before scan is enabled so that MSE updates it self each day

cheers

 

[GianniDPC]

Yes but I want it to be auto updated but only MSE, Not Windows based Updates (I want to install these myself)

MSE is a light nice AV but if it needs Windows Update to update that's a bit stupid ....

I think you can achieve this in only one way:
1 .set windows updates to manualy checking
2. set MSE so that quick scan runs once per day(each day).
3. make sure MSE update before scan is enabled so that MSE updates it self each day

cheers

Lol but if it scans than it eats cpu again >.<

 

[codekiddy]

Lol but if it scans than it eats cpu again >.<

I'm not pretty sure but I think you're out of options

EDIT:
MSE have an option to colntrol the amount of processor used during scaning.

 

[GianniDPC]

Lol but if it scans than it eats cpu again >.<

I'm not pretty sure but I think you're out of options

Lol, Well i'll see updates come at the second tuesday every month so ...

Maybe i'll set it to auto again

 

[DeaconFrost]

I have my Windows set the same way you do, but I'm not seeing a problem with MSE. When my PC says I have updates, I allow them to install, including MSE. No need for me to make any changes to MSE at all. I don't see what the big deal is, unless you are postponing your updates for weeks at a time, instead of just installing them when available.

 

[richnrockville]

Most times when MSE somehow senses that an update is available, it turns yellow. Of course it also does when it needs to do a scan. open it up and it will tell you that it needs to update..

Rich

 

[GianniDPC]

Most times when MSE somehow senses that an update is available, it turns yellow. Of course it also does when it needs to do a scan. open it up and it will tell you that it needs to update..

Rich

Ok guy's thanks for the suggestions will see how it goes

 

[Bongo]

I have mine set to "check for updates but let me choose whether to download or install them" and MSE updates itself without me doing anything.
Jerry

 

[DavidE]

I have MSE set up to check for definition updates every 4 hours in Task Scheduler. My Windows Update is set to notify me when updates are available.

 

[UsernameIssues]

The CPU usage can be throttled to as low as 10%. Is MSE not honoring that for you?


I too tried that registry change - but that was so long ago that I do not recall the results. My guess is that it did not work or I would have stuck with it instead of using this command line/batch file/scheduled task:

"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Security Client\Antimalware\MpCmdRun.exe" -SignatureUpdate

But MS only updates the sig file once per day in most cases. If you do not wish to have the cmd prompt window popup each time, then there are ways around that. I had the scheduled task set to run every hour while I was fighting repeated failures to update... it did not help.

It is my understanding that MSE uses the same backup files/system/scheme as used by windows update. You just happen to see some of the updates via the WU interface because the timing of the sig file release, the timing of the OS update checks and the timing of MSE's update checks.

I've not been able to test on W7 as extensively as I have on XP, but MSE's update process will often fail if the OS temp directory has been moved to another folder via OS environment variables. You can watch MSE put temp files into the correct/defined OS temp folder and then at the very end of the update process, it is hard coded to put stuff into the %SystemRoot%\temp folder. It honors %SystemRoot%, but does not all look at where the OS temp file is set to for all things. Sadly, this has been discussed in MS forums for years without a fix by MS. I fought this for more than a year - spending hours with MS support and remote control sessions where agents followed the same useless scripted "fixes". The end result for all 3 of those tickets was "we don't know what is wrong". I eventually stumbled upon the fix in an MS forum post. My subsequent contact with MS has not yielded any change to their update process code.

The "fix" is to leave a temp folder in the system root folder since the update process does not always recreate it.

MSE does have a good implementation of its LSP - thus it gets along with other software that use LSPs (imaging software, backup software...) And MSE is easy on the system resources - even if its heuristics suck and MS is slow to add things to the sig list. I base that claim on my numerous submissions to both MSE and virustotal after cleaning computers that were "protected" by MSE. I keep checking virustotal until MSE added the item of interest - usually in a day or two.

MSE has a EULA that is friendly towards the non-profits for whom I do volunteer computer support. AVG, AVAST & others; not so much.

 

[DavidE]

MS updates definitions 2-3 times per day, usually 3.

 

[UsernameIssues]

MS updates definitions 2-3 times per day, usually 3.

Thanks for correcting that. I can only suppose that I was not seeing this due to the number of failures I was getting on computers that I had set to update every hour. I was lucky to get one success per date - so I drew the wrong conclusion.

 

[bru]

I have MSE set to check for definition updates before running a scan and I have a Quick Scan scheduled for every day. That way I'm sure to get updated definitions every day. That was the simplest way for me. Otherwise MSE as has been said kind of runs on a weird schedule in terms of definition updates.

 

[DavidE]

MS updates definitions 2-3 times per day, usually 3.

Thanks for correcting that. I can only suppose that I was not seeing this due to the number of failures I was getting on computers that I had set to update every hour. I was lucky to get one success per date - so I drew the wrong conclusion.

Cool.
For what it's worth I've set up scheduled tasks on many PC's and have never really had problems.
Just lucky i guess
In WU History i do see a few Failed updates per year...not enough for me to bother with it.
I never saw 2 failed updates back to back.

MpCmdRun does write to several logs.
If you haven't looked at C:\Windows\WindowsUpdate.log, check that for "MpCmdRun".
There may be some detail info in there for problems with this.

I've never setup a schedule to check every hour, but i don't see how every 1 hour versus every 3-4 hours would matter.
I can change a pc to check every hour if you want?...

Also, I found this task must run with Admin authority.
From what I remember it will run with STD authority, but does not update the definitions.
I can't remember if any error is reported running under STD auth.

regards, David

 

[DavidE]

I have MSE set to check for definition updates before running a scan and I have a Quick Scan scheduled for every day. That way I'm sure to get updated definitions every day. That was the simplest way for me. Otherwise MSE as has been said kind of runs on a weird schedule in terms of definition updates.

That's how I first used it.
But i got tired of seeing the "Updates Available" icon.
I also wanted these updates applied more than once per day without me doing anything (lazy)...
I do still use scheduled daily scans, but added the scheduled task for the updates.