System image, clone, and restore points

[DavidE]

From everything I've read about this issue, even if Restore Points exist on the clone they may be corrupt and not work.
I haven't re-read this whole thread so maybe this was already answered:
Has Layback Bear said that he successfully used a Restore Point on the cloned drive ?
Seeing them is one thing, using them reliably is something else.

I also don't believe LB has a multi-boot PC, so that is a difference that might be important.

I'm not saying there is no merit to Restore Points.
What merit/features/benefits do you need with Restore Points ?

 

[betaupsilon]

From everything I've read about this issue, even if Restore Points exist on the clone they may be corrupt and not work.
I haven't re-read this whole thread so maybe this was already answered:
Has Layback Bear said that he successfully used a Restore Point on the cloned drive ?
Seeing them is one thing, using them reliably is something else.

Yes, in post #22 he indicated he restored his clone back to his earliest (oldest) RESTORE PT.

I also don't believe LB has a multi-boot PC, so that is a difference that might be important.

This I am not sure. He would have to answer that.

I'm not saying there is no merit to Restore Points.
What merit/features/benefits do you need with Restore Points ?

I did a FRESH install on all of my systems. Consequently, I had to reinstall all of my software as well. So I created intermediate RESTORE PTS in case I did not get something correct. RESTORE PTS are convenient to fix the problem than starting all over with a FRESH install. I keep images, but I reserve those for major changes in either the SYSTEM configuration or major software upgrades.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I never could get System Restore to work on any of my three Win 7 machines (they only worked roughly 75% of the time in XP) so I shut down System Restore and just use imaging, which has been 100% reliable.

 

[betaupsilon]

I never could get System Restore to work on any of my three Win 7 machines (they only worked roughly 75% of the time in XP) so I shut down System Restore and just use imaging, which has been 100% reliable.

As I stated I IMAGE as well, but not for intermediate changes.

 

[betaupsilon]

"This quote could be relevant to the discussion:
Source: "Acronis True Image WD Edition", 2000-2010, pp.48

When MBR recovery is chosen, the "Recover disk signature" box will appear in the bottom left corner at the next step. Recovering disk signature may be desirable due to the following reasons:
1. Acronis True Image WD Edition creates scheduled tasks using the signature of the source hard disk. If you recover the same disk signature, you don't need to re-create or edit the tasks created previously.
2. Some installed applications use disk signature for licensing and other purposes.
3. If you use Windows Restore Points, they will be lost when the disk signature is not recovered.
4. In addition, recovering disk signature allows to recover VSS snapshots used by Windows Vista and Windows 7's "Previous Versions" feature.
If the box is unselected, Acronis True Image WD Edition generates a new disk signature for the recovered drive. This may be needed when you use an image backup not for disaster recovery but for cloning your Windows Vista hard drive to another one. Trying to boot Windows after cloning with both drives connected will result in a problem. During Windows booting, its loader checks the disk signatures of all the connected drives, and if it finds two identical disk signatures, the loader changes the signature of the second disk, which would be the clone disk. Once this happens, the clone disk would not be able to boot up independently of the original disk, because the MountedDevices fields in the clone's registry reference the disk signature of the original disk, which will not be available if the original disk is disconnected."

The section of the same reference:
14.3.6 Cloning with Manual Partitions
may also be of interest

As stated in RED, Layback somehow managed to circomvent this & I cannot see how. After, I cloned my drive with MACRIUM it had a different SIGNATURE. I forcibly changed the SIGNATURE via CMD mode. I disconnected my source drive & attempted to boot the clone unsuccessfully. I had to reset the SIGNATURE & rebuild the MBR to get it to boot again. So I have a working clone, but the RESTORE PTS are not functional or missing.

If someone out there could reproduce Layback's procedure in post #22 & get the RESTORE PTS to work maybe we could diagnose my troubles.

 

[DavidE]

I did a FRESH install on all of my systems. Consequently, I had to reinstall all of my software as well. So I created intermediate RESTORE PTS in case I did not get something correct. RESTORE PTS are convenient to fix the problem than starting all over with a FRESH install. I keep images, but I reserve those for major changes in either the SYSTEM configuration or major software upgrades.

As I stated I IMAGE as well, but not for intermediate changes.

You could try using Macrium Differentials for intermediate backups/changes.
Then you would see if it's an acceptable workaround/change for you.
If you don't like it, you can delete the Differential image.
For me they run quickly and don't use much space.
They have been 100% reliable for me, and they include "full" changes, not just what changes System Restore decides to backup.

I can't try to duplicate your problem, i don't have an extra SSD/HD to clone to right now.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I never could get System Restore to work on any of my three Win 7 machines (they only worked roughly 75% of the time in XP) so I shut down System Restore and just use imaging, which has been 100% reliable.

As I stated I IMAGE as well, but not for intermediate changes.

I image once a week after running my security scans no matter what and also image immediately before making any changes, such as installing a new program, downloading and installing updates, changing settings, etc. It doesn't take but about 12 minutes or less to make the image and verify it while I continue to use the computer or just walk away while it is running. I keep the last eight images on hand and the first image of each month after that. They take up a bit of room (a little over 35GB per image) but HDD space is cheap while peace of mind is priceless.

 

[mjf]

I keep images, but I reserve those for major changes in either the SYSTEM configuration or major software upgrades.

That's a personal preference and I suspect many people follow that approach.

I make a system image on those occasions as well but also routinely ~ every 2 weeks and before installing important Windows updates. I store quite a number of images and prune them from time to time. It takes me less than 10 minutes to make a system image less than 10 minutes to restore.

 

[Layback Bear]

betaupsilon I have no idea what you are doing wrong. Maybe I have the only system that works this way.

I'm booted in my Clone as I type and just did a Restore Point back to 5/21/2016.
Here is the proof. Look at the date for MSE updates.



Now I going to go get all the updates for everything so my Clone is up to date again.

 

[Layback Bear]

More examples.

 

[betaupsilon]

Well after all the consternation of spinning my wheels with MACRIUM I tried CLONEZILLA & it appears I got it to work on the 1st try. I have no idea why I could not get MACRIUM to work.

 

[DavidE]

One of the issues reported is that Macrium uses VSS and that can be a problem for restore points.
Maybe CLONEZILLA doesn't use VSS and that's why it worked.

Glad to hear you got it solved

 

[betaupsilon]

One of the issues reported is that Macrium uses VSS and that can be a problem for restore points.
Maybe CLONEZILLA doesn't use VSS and that's why it worked.

Glad to hear you got it solved

But when you run MACRIUM in the WIN PE or WIN RE mode is the VSS not disabled?

 

[DavidE]

Good question, but i don't know how to see if Macrium somehow uses VSS when running Win PE.
When I run Macrium from Windows, i can see VSS is running in Task Manager and Process Explorer.
I don't know how to see all the processes running when i boot the PC with Macrium.

I played with EaseUS Todo Backup.
I see that program doesn't use VSS, it uses VDS.exe (Virtual Disk Service).
You could try EaseUS Todo and see if it creates an image with restore points for you.

 

[Layback Bear]

My understanding was and is that betaupsilon is trying to create a Clone which doesn't use Win PE.

A Clone is what my methods was use for, as per the title of the thread.

 

[betaupsilon]

My understanding was and is that betaupsilon is trying to create a Clone which doesn't use Win PE.

A Clone is what my methods was use for, as per the title of the thread.

The clone does not run using WIN PE. You run MACRIUM in the WIN PE OS to create the clone which runs WINDOWS or LINUX or whatever. Running MACRIUM in WIN PE would presumably disable VSS from running. How you managed to run MACRIUM in WINDOWS to create your clone & manage to preserve your older RESTORE PTS is perplexing.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

My understanding was and is that betaupsilon is trying to create a Clone which doesn't use Win PE.

A Clone is what my methods was use for, as per the title of the thread.

The clone does not run using WIN PE. You run MACRIUM in the WIN PE OS to create the clone which runs WINDOWS or LINUX or whatever. Running MACRIUM in WIN PE would presumably disable VSS from running. How you managed to run MACRIUM in WINDOWS to create your clone & manage to preserve your older RESTORE PTS is perplexing.

Twice I have successfully cloned the original HDD of a notebook to an SSD while running Macrium Reflect from the C: drive of the notebook. Both times, the clone worked perfectly when I replaced the original HDD with the SSD clone.

 

[betaupsilon]

Twice I have successfully cloned the original HDD of a notebook to an SSD while running Macrium Reflect from the C: drive of the notebook. Both times, the clone worked perfectly when I replaced the original HDD with the SSD clone.

I am sure you did, but did your old RESTORE PTS transfer over? Check next time. If they do I would like to hear about it & the exact procedure you employed.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Twice I have successfully cloned the original HDD of a notebook to an SSD while running Macrium Reflect from the C: drive of the notebook. Both times, the clone worked perfectly when I replaced the original HDD with the SSD clone.

I am sure you did, but did your old RESTORE PTS transfer over? Check next time. If they do I would like to hear about it & the exact procedure you employed.

There is no way for me to know (and, frankly, I don't give north end of a southbound furry little rodent) because I've never been able to get stupid System Restore to work on any of my Win 7 machines (it only worked about half of the time in XP). I depend on imaging instead since it has been 100% reliable.

Besides, the point I was making when I posted was that it is possible to clone a C: disk or partition from the Macrium Reflect installation on the same disk/partition. One doesn't need to use Win PE to make the clone.

 

[DavidE]

@betaupsilon

There is a default Macrium registry key to exclude Restore Points from Macrium IMAGES.
I don't know, but i wonder if this key is also used for CLONING.

I enabled Restore Points.
I deleted the reg key to exclude Macrium Restore Points, created a backup image, and i now see Restore Points included in the backup image.
I don't know if they work, i just see they are in the backup image after i deleted the reg key.

It's up to you if you want to test this with cloning and verify the restore points (if included) do work.

WARNING:
You or anyone should be prepared to recover from problems, if you make registry changes.
Make sure you have a reliable recovery plan before making registry changes.

Here is a Macrium V5 forum thread about this:
Macrium Support Forum - Exclude files from Disk Image
This key is in my OS's with Macrium V6.

Here is a screen print of the registry key:



Now i have to restore the reg key, turn off SR, and delete my test images