Unique Installation Question

[VegasJamie]

Good Morning Everyone,

A newbie on this site, but an decently experienced PC user/'upgrader'.....I've installed additional HD's to an existing setup, and have clean installed many times on many machines. This is a bit different:

I have recently ordered a new Dell desktop with Windows 7 Home Premium 64 on a 1.5 Tb HD. When I configured the Desktop there was no option for a SSD/HD combo, so my only option was either to have one HD, or a RAID array with a Raptor drive.

I have not received the desktop yet, and am not expecting it to arrive for another two weeks, but I would like to accomplish something I'm hoping a few of you might be able to help me with:

1) I want to install a new 64GB (or maybe 80, or 124) SSD on the new system (prior to adding any new software, games, drivers, etc.), and use the factory-installed Windows 7 that will be on the installed 7200 rpm HD. How can I do this?

(I have read about reinstalling a factory OS using recovery disks and/or the recovery partition, but what about reinstalling the factory OS on a completely different HD?)

2) I've read about putting the OS, programs, and games on the SSD, but I don't want to spend more than ~$150 for a SSD, plus, with a 1.5TB HD, I'd be more than happy to have everything but the OS on that drive. Would putting just the OS on the SSD be a performance-minded thing to do? (In addition, I'd much rather have the OS on it's own drive in case of failure, corruption, etc.)

3) By backing up the new computer, and making a restore disk, will I retain all of the factory-installed programs?

....I've made my current Dell desktop last almost eight years with no problems I couldn't handle myself,....I'm hoping to make this next machine as relatively 'future-proof' as possible, as well as keeping it's performance quick and reliable.

Thanks in advance for your insight, help, and advice.

 

[Zidane24]

1) you can clone the HD and put it on the SSD (many free/non-free tools out there to accomplish this)
2) Putting the OS on the SSD will GREATLY speed up the responsiveness of the OS - I would definitely do so
3) Only making an image of the HD will keep the factory installed programs

Additional Notes: Why do you want to keep the factory image? Dell, like all other manufacturers, include bloat-ware on their machines when they ship them. Do yourself a favor and just reinstall Windows to a fresh state and go from there...you will be much better of in doing so

 

[Keiichi25]

Good Morning Everyone,

A newbie on this site, but an decently experienced PC user/'upgrader'.....I've installed additional HD's to an existing setup, and have clean installed many times on many machines. This is a bit different:

I have recently ordered a new Dell desktop with Windows 7 Home Premium 64 on a 1.5 Tb HD. When I configured the Desktop there was no option for a SSD/HD combo, so my only option was either to have one HD, or a RAID array with a Raptor drive.

I have not received the desktop yet, and am not expecting it to arrive for another two weeks, but I would like to accomplish something I'm hoping a few of you might be able to help me with:

1) I want to install a new 64GB (or maybe 80, or 124) SSD on the new system (prior to adding any new software, games, drivers, etc.), and use the factory-installed Windows 7 that will be on the installed 7200 rpm HD. How can I do this?

(I have read about reinstalling a factory OS using recovery disks and/or the recovery partition, but what about reinstalling the factory OS on a completely different HD?)

You can do a recovery reinstall on ANY disk, regardless of it being one you got from them or what not. Dell will also have you create a recovery disk through their little support program, so before you do anything hardware, boot up the computer, go through the little hoops it makes you go through, but definitely go through the Dell Support wizard, one of which will have you create a recovery disk for 2 dvds.

When you do so, just pull the main drive out of the system, do not leave it hooked up for the time being, and try and do a recovery using those DVDs. Worse case scenario, it doesn't work, but at least you still have the functioning drive to clone using imaging software to copy to the SSD as another alternative.

2) I've read about putting the OS, programs, and games on the SSD, but I don't want to spend more than ~$150 for a SSD, plus, with a 1.5TB HD, I'd be more than happy to have everything but the OS on that drive. Would putting just the OS on the SSD be a performance-minded thing to do? (In addition, I'd much rather have the OS on it's own drive in case of failure, corruption, etc.)

Ideally, you want the OS on the SSD because of system necessities and processes. While you can put programs and games on there, that is more of dealing with disk access time. Programs you use heavily that take long load times due to read/writing to disk will be a bit faster on SSD.

I would not recommend putting games on SSD, while it means the load times should be technically reduced due to not having to deal with the disk's limitation from seek and RPM limitations, most games like to eat up disk space like candy, especially if you run a lot of games for a long time and don't uninstall them.

3) By backing up the new computer, and making a restore disk, will I retain all of the factory-installed programs?

....I've made my current Dell desktop last almost eight years with no problems I couldn't handle myself,....I'm hoping to make this next machine as relatively 'future-proof' as possible, as well as keeping it's performance quick and reliable.

Thanks in advance for your insight, help, and advice.

It should. However, you will find a few of us will say, "Screw the Factory installed programs." Some of them act quirky or just take up memory resources unnecessarily. Dell Datasafe, for example, will break after a while due to some update that makes it not want to work with the system properly, therefore become more of a nuisance and just take up resources like a basement living geek with no job.

 

[VegasJamie]

Thanks for your responses.....greatly appreciated.

The reason for wanting to keep the factory image, hmmmm.... I thought I wanted to retain the drivers, and blu-ray/dvd burning programs that come with the computer..... ? (I know I will be able to get all drivers updated/installed once the system is running, but what about some of the other programs like McAfee (free for 3yrs), Roxio, etc. ? I know those may not be your programs of choice, but, if they're 'free' with the system, why not utilize them until I want to spend more on other programs...?)

I'm all for getting rid of unnecessary bloatware, I only want the things I need and will actually use.

Keiichi25:

"When you do so, just pull the main drive out of the system, do not leave it hooked up for the time being, and try and do a recovery using those DVDs. Worse case scenario, it doesn't work, but at least you still have the functioning drive to clone using imaging software to copy to the SSD as another alternative."

Not sure I follow..... make the DVD's first, then pull the HD, and try to boot off the DVD's without any drive connected?? Or after I've pulled the HD, install the SSD, then boot from DVD's to SSD? I'm a bit confused....

Another question: Is a 64GB SSD large enough for 'lifetime use' of Windows 7? I'd like to do this only once, and have the drive be large enough for future OS upgrades/installs/patches/fixes/service packs.....

If the 64 is indeed large enough, any recommendations for a solid performer in the $100-$150 range?

Thank you again for your help.

 

[Zidane24]

Thanks for your responses.....greatly appreciated.

The reason for wanting to keep the factory image, hmmmm.... I thought I wanted to retain the drivers, and blu-ray/dvd burning programs that come with the computer..... ? (I know I will be able to get all drivers updated/installed once the system is running, but what about some of the other programs like McAfee (free for 3yrs), Roxio, etc. ? I know those may not be your programs of choice, but, if they're 'free' with the system, why not utilize them until I want to spend more on other programs...?)

I'm all for getting rid of unnecessary bloatware, I only want the things I need and will actually use.

Keiichi25:

"When you do so, just pull the main drive out of the system, do not leave it hooked up for the time being, and try and do a recovery using those DVDs. Worse case scenario, it doesn't work, but at least you still have the functioning drive to clone using imaging software to copy to the SSD as another alternative."

Not sure I follow..... make the DVD's first, then pull the HD, and try to boot off the DVD's without any drive connected?? Or after I've pulled the HD, install the SSD, then boot from DVD's to SSD? I'm a bit confused....

Another question: Is a 64GB SSD large enough for 'lifetime use' of Windows 7? I'd like to do this only once, and have the drive be large enough for future OS upgrades/installs/patches/fixes/service packs.....

If the 64 is indeed large enough, any recommendations for a solid performer in the $100-$150 range?

Thank you again for your help.

I can understand you wanting to keep the free software....though hopefully the OEM will provide disks with the machine to install it

a 64GB SSD will be PLENTY enough for an OS installation of Windows 7....will have to get back to you on recomendations concerning which to get

 

[linnemeyerhere]

Crucial Real SSD is the way to go my friend it will max the 150.00 budget but worth every extra buck many times over !

 

[Bare Foot Kid]

Hello VegasJamie, welcome to Seven Forums!



If you choose you could do a clean install of Windows 7 to the new SSDD using the exact same version installation DVD as you have on the new machine, do you know anyone that would let you use their disk to do the install and then you would do the activation with the factory activation key on the COA sticker attached to the PC.

You may have to do a robo-call to MS to sort the factory batch key but that's not a big deal.

Activate Windows 7 by Phone


If you can't get the exact same version you could use the info in this tutorial at the link below to create an all-versions installer to use; be sure to post back with any further questions you may have and to keep us informed.

Windows 7 Universal Installation Disc - Create

 

[linnemeyerhere]

Yes exactly...do a clean install if possible, no trim needed...mo betta !

 

[Bare Foot Kid]

All that would need done is do the install and don't activate yet as you'll have 120 days to sort what needs sorted.

Activation Trial Period - Extend Up to 120 Days



The info below is the best way to dual boot so the OSs aren't tied together.

   Information

The easiest way to do away with boot issues between separate Operating Systems (OS) is to use the BIOS one time boot menu to select which OS to boot at system startup, each motherboard has an individual hot-key to tap during system start-up to access this menu.

If you have 2 separate Hard Disk Drives (HDD) and have one OS installed to one HDD and you want to install another OS to the second HDD, disconnect the HDD with the first OS installed on it and leave only the HDD you want to install the second OS to connected.

Just be sure not to change where the original HDD SATA cable was connected, it has to be re-connected to the exact same port to avoid boot issues.

Install the second OS to the connected HDD and when complete and the system is booting good, power down and reconnect the first HDD with the first OS on it.

This way the OSs will boot independently of each other and there will be no boot conflicts between the 2 separate OSs to have to sort later.

Then set the BIOS to boot the HDD / OS you want as default and if you want to start the other (new) OS you use the BIOS one-time boot menu to select that HDD / OS to start.

​

 

[VegasJamie]

Thanks for your help everyone, seems like the Crucial drive is the best option. Will I have to set the drives up in any special fashion, or can I just have one as master and one as slave?

 

[Bare Foot Kid]

Thanks for your help everyone, seems like the Crucial drive is the best option. Will I have to set the drives up in any special fashion, or can I just have one as master and one as slave?

As I'm sure they are SATA there will be no slave, that's the old PATA/IDE technology.

 

[gregrocker]

I would not use MucAfee bloatware on any Win7 system. Use a free lightweight AV like MS Security Essentials which works perfectly with the Win7 Firewall and doesnt' slow your system.

If you reinstall the factory bloatware just to get Roxio, then I'd uninstall everything else including the useless Dell utilities using Revo Uninstaller in Advanced mode. You'll likely still have corrupt system file because bloatware is itself corruption of the first order.

 

[Keiichi25]

Keiichi25:

"When you do so, just pull the main drive out of the system, do not leave it hooked up for the time being, and try and do a recovery using those DVDs. Worse case scenario, it doesn't work, but at least you still have the functioning drive to clone using imaging software to copy to the SSD as another alternative."

Not sure I follow..... make the DVD's first, then pull the HD, and try to boot off the DVD's without any drive connected?? Or after I've pulled the HD, install the SSD, then boot from DVD's to SSD? I'm a bit confused....

1) Make the DVDs first
2) Pull the Dell System Drive out of the system
3) Put in new drive and use DVDs you just created to reload your OS onto it

Although, ideally, it would be better if you were allowed to just do a plain fresh install with a Windows 7 DVD versus a Dell System Restore Disk, as it puts all the unnecessary stuff on there and they include a disk that has drivers and applications where you can load what you need in pieces versus everything you might not want.

 

[VegasJamie]

Great!! Thanks to all of you for helping. I've ordered a Crucial RealSSD C300 64GB drive. I will be referring to this thread in the next few weeks when the machine arrives.

I also read that I will be installing the OS on the SSD, and then simply plugging the larger drive in, once the system has booted up. I'm presuming the new machine will have the necessary cable(s) for power and drive connection already installed? Dell states the machine has great capabilities for expansion, and, some of the other Dells I have worked on recently have had cables to plug in additional drives.

So, if it true that I simply plug in the larger drive after the SSD is loaded with the OS, how does it show up? If the SSD is C:, will the larger one simply be D: by default, and show up under hard disk drives?

I've always partitioned my drives during OS installs,....if the above method is the way things will go, will I have an opportunity to partition it when I format it using W7?

I apologize in advance for the nature of my 'basic' questions, but, I want to ensure I do this properly, and that the install/reinstall/SSD addition goes smoothly. You're all far more advanced than I am, but I feel comfortable with the task I have outlined, doesn't seem to be a difficult process.

Thank you again.

 

[Bare Foot Kid]

You will get to a dialog box like this during the install, this is where you will format the SSD; though you may care to have a look at this tutorial at the link below for some ideas, though Step One (the clean all) will not be necessary for a new SSD so you would skip that step.


SSD / HDD : Optimize for Windows Reinstallation

How to Do a Clean Installation with Windows 7

click to enlarge

​

 

[linnemeyerhere]

VegasJamie,

It's a fair assumption that the new system will have a additional power connection for a sata drive likely in tandem with the primary/stock hard drive, BUT the actual sata II or III cable you will have to purchase and no the drive doesn't come with one. Do you know if the system has sata II or III ports if you don't know check the system specs.If you have computer friends around you check with them as it seems anyone in this hobby for a while collects all sorts of extra cables. Oh and at this time if you dare you can also clean up the routing of the factory cables to promote air flow if needed or nessary. You can see many threads here about this and get some great ideas.

 

[mjf]

If you wanted a straight SSD version of the factory disk then using the DVD recovery disks mentioned earlier may be the simplest approach. But I had a feeling you may get back a recovery partition consuming 10GB+. If the SSD is only 64GB this may be a consideration.

 

[VegasJamie]

linnemeyerhere:

I think the machine is SATA II, but, I'm pretty surprized its not SATA III (it's a Dell XPS 9100, pretty muuch fully-loaded)....Question: if Dell installs a HD that is SATA II, does that mean the machine is ONLY SATA II, or, is there also a possibility it could be SATA III, but the HD they install is only SATA II? Would it be worth the $ to purchase a SATA III card?


To all of you talking about using a Windows 7 DVD to install the OS on the new SSD (versus using the backup DVD's Dell will ask me to do when I first fire it up), it just dawned on me that I ordered the 3x Windows 7 Family Upgrade Pack to upgrade all the other machines in my house,....could I use the 64 bit DVD to do the install, and then use the Windows 7 code on the new machine to register it? (I'm pretty sure it will come with the Genuine Windows 7 product code sticker on it somewhere) I have been reading about doing fresh installs with the upgrade DVD, wondering if I can use it in my situation?

Thanks again to all of you who have responded....

 

[gregrocker]

Yes, you can reinstall factory OEM with the retail installer using the Product Key on the COA sticker. It may require a robocall to MS to sort the batch key on sticker.

You can unlock all versions in installer using this method on ISO extracted with ImgBurn: Universal Installation Disc - Create

The installer is mostly driver-complete, with newer arriving quickly via optional Windows Updates. Any drivers then missing in Device Manager can be found on the Support Downloads webpage for your model computer or device.

Install programs slowly over time to gauge performance after each. Don't let any programs write themselves into msconfig>Startup as they become freeloaders on your RAM/CPU and can spy on you. I only allow AV and gadgets.

Use a lightweight free AV like MS Security Essentials which works perfectly with Windows 7 Firewall.

When it is finished, clean and order the HD perfectly using state-of-the-art free CCleaner then Auslogics Disk and Registry defraggers monthly.

Then save a Win7 Backup image externally so you never have to reinstall again, just reimage the HD or replacement using DVD or Repair CD.

 

[mjf]

You've been given heaps of good advice. I'll just add that upgrade or not, the OEM OS will always be tied to that particular PC's motherboard. The upgrade unlocks features and it is only that upgrade/unlock capability that can be legally transferred to a different machine (according to MS themselves).