What the Hell is MS Doing?

[K3VL4R]

Now, John either a) never got the Windows re-install DVD; b) never got a manufacturer's restore DVD or c) never made a restore DVD from the image delivered on the original PC disk drive.

This has been discussed before also. By owning an OEM product key, you are legally entitled to own the matching disk media. Now the problem is that OEM manufacturers are required to provide you with a disk should you request one, but actually getting them to send you one is a different story. They usually try to get out of it by telling you to use the restore disks that you can make within the OS (which is not the same as the installation media, but they somehow justify that is all they need to provide their customers)

Bottom Line If you can get the OEM's to send you the disk then great. If not then get it somewhere else. Download it or clone your neighbors or whatever. Remember that this is totally legal because owning a valid product key means you are allowed to have the matching installation media for the product key. If you do not feel comfortable with that then contact Microsoft and they will send you a replacement disk for a small fee.

   Note

remember that product keys are SP sensitive meaning that if you have a Vista SP1 key, it must be paired up with a Vista SP1 installation disk. It will not work with Vista SP0 or SP2 disks.

 

[masterB]

thanks K3VL4R good post!
Best way is to extract the key from your OEM installation and keep it safe.
+1

 

[Muad Dib]

thanks K3VL4R good post!
Best way is to extract the key from your OEM installation and keep it safe.
+1

The real life answer... (one of them...)

That may be the best way but in reality a large number of people will not do that. With any luck there will be the original COA on the side of the PC case. So when they bring it to people like me we can flip through our collection of OEM installation CD/DVDs and get them back up and running using a) The COA; b) an OEM Re-install/restore DVD and C) the Win7 Upgrade DVD and product key.

 

[pparks1]

You do not need anything installed at all to use the upgrade disk = custom "clean" installation. Read it for yourself right from Microsoft below.

Installing and reinstalling Windows

Hmnmm...but what isn't mentioned here from that link is whether than is an upgrade version of the cd or the full installer. I believe that it's discussing the full install disc...rather than the upgrade version.

From other links that I have found, I believe the confirmed reports that you do have to have an activated OS installed to upgrade are true.


Here are 4 threads all confirming that you will have to have an activated OS installed to use the upgrade media.

http://blogs.chron.com/techblog/archives/2009/07/a_major_windows_7_upgrade_question_gets_an_an.html

http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/14/microsoft-confirms-windows-7-rc-upgrade-rules/

http://hothardware.com/News/Rules-for-Windows-7-Upgrades-Verified/

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/ne...ed_copy_verification_each_time_it’s_installed

 

[pparks1]

Funny that they claim that people can upgrade from Win 7RC, I doubt that's the case, as it leave much room for abuse.

Not as much room as you might think. The ability to activate Windows 7 RC1 is going away as well as product functionality in 2010. So, the window of abuse is small.

 

[SIW2]

This doesn't clear it up at all.

Installing and reinstalling Windows

It explains how to do the various types of installations - but does not specify what kind of license is needed.

It would be very surprising if the upgrade license allowed one straight install from boot in the same way the Full version does.

MS will provide a method for clean installing with the upgrade license, but it will require either the qualifying version already installed , or some kind of evidence you have the qualifying version version - e.g. insert the dvd during install.

They will probably also still provide for the double install dance.

They are trying to get as many people off the previous o/s's and onto 7.

They also want to claim a record take up.

They won't make it difficult.

 

[K3VL4R]

They will probably also still provide for the double install dance.

They are trying to get as many people off the previous o/s's and onto 7.

They also want to claim a record take up.

They won't make it difficult

Exactly.

Though it may seem like there are some loop holes to go through to to get the upgrade media to work depending on different circumstances, Microsoft wants to make it as easy as they can for us.

They have posted methods of installation online and have supplied insrtuctions to thousands of people on their help line so there is no way that they are going to change anything now relating to the installation procedures and risk pissing people off.

If you are on the fence about buying the upgrade disk, just buy it, there will be a way for you to do an upgrade or custom install for you.
Any unanswered questions will be officially cleared up by Microsoft themselves way before you get your hands on the upgrade disk you bought. So just hold tight and try not to get excited with every rumor or non Microsoft released information that you may run into.

BTW: I am having a hard time staying logged here in at work, hence the reason for quoting the posts the way I have.

 

[Muad Dib]

Edit: Reason asked is this point is still not clear. Technet site no help and K3Vl4R's post ALMOST addresses it but, yet again, instruction state:



If Windows cannot run at all, you can reinstall Windows using the original installation disc.

Warning

Back up your files before you begin reinstalling Windows if possible, even if you're reinstalling Windows on a hard disk partition, and you have personal files on a separate partition. For example, if you have encrypted files, you might not be able to access them after reinstalling Windows. A custom installation replaces the current version of Windows and all personal files.

Turn on your computer and insert the Windows 7 DVD or CD

Anyone see the vagueness/abiguity of this sequence?

Hmnmm...but what isn't mentioned here from that link is whether than is an upgrade version of the cd or the full installer. I believe that it's discussing the full install disc...rather than the upgrade version.

From other links that I have found, I believe the confirmed reports that you do have to have an activated OS installed to upgrade are true.

Based on what I have read on Technet one cannot boot from the Upgrade disk and install usiong an Upgrade Product Key. An Upgrade install, whether an "overwrite" (dirty install) or a "clean" install can only occur from a running, activated system.

That was the abiguous point I was trying to make in the above posted solution link reference by K3Vl4R:

If Windows cannot run at all, you can reinstall Windows using the original installation disc.

Which ORIGINAL disk? MS needs to write some clear instructions.

The issue was so hotly debated on a Technet Plus site that they closed the thread because nobody knew the answer.

The one MS Rep just kept repeating that a user COULD NOT boot from an Upgrade disk with an Upgrade Product key and do a clean install. She also emphasized that the "double install" method used in Vista was not supported and would not work. Another said it may lead to an illegal activation. It was also emphasized that while ACTIVATED Win RC installs could be upgraded, should the HDD fail after the upgrade and a re-install be required, the user would have to reinstall the ORIGINAL legitimately licensed Vista or XP OS and repeat the Upgrade.

Soooo......

I have heard so many different explanations I have come to one conclusion, the upgrade is a good deal for legitimate users and those users had best protect their ability to re-install if the HDD fails.

Personally I suggest image backups, but I KNOW a lot of average user will not do that.

 

[Nil Einne]

Is there really anything new here? Am I really the only one who remembers this from Windows 98 days? IIRC, in those days if you had a full install disc you couldn't even upgrade an existing install (and vice versa obviously)

 

[SIW2]

They are not making it clear to punters in the EU either.

They get the Full license, of course - but there is an upgrade price.

MS Store insists a qualifying installation of windows is required there, too.

What they mean is that to qualify for the upgrade price , you should have a qualifying version installed - confuses a lot of people.

 

[Muad Dib]

Is there really anything new here? Am I really the only one who remembers this from Windows 98 days? IIRC, in those days if you had a full install disc you couldn't even upgrade an existing install (and vice versa obviously)

I remember having to re-install Win95 - FULL. Upgrade to Win98 and THEN Upgrade to Win98SE to get a system back to the point at which the HDD failed. That I rememeber. It was a PIA then and it will be a PIA today!

 

[Avien]

Either way this sounds like a pain when you need to reformat. Guess when you reformat you must install an old OS first, then re install 7?

 

[masterB]

Based on what I have read on Technet one cannot boot from the Upgrade disk and install usiong an Upgrade Product Key. An Upgrade install, whether an "overwrite" (dirty install) or a "clean" install can only occur from a running, activated system.

That was the abiguous point I was trying to make in the above posted solution link reference by K3Vl4R:

If Windows cannot run at all, you can reinstall Windows using the original installation disc.

Which ORIGINAL disk? MS needs to write some clear instructions.

The issue was so hotly debated on a Technet Plus site that they closed the thread because nobody knew the answer.

The one MS Rep just kept repeating that a user COULD NOT boot from an Upgrade disk with an Upgrade Product key and do a clean install. She also emphasized that the "double install" method used in Vista was not supported and would not work. Another said it may lead to an illegal activation. It was also emphasized that while ACTIVATED Win RC installs could be upgraded, should the HDD fail after the upgrade and a re-install be required, the user would have to reinstall the ORIGINAL legitimately licensed Vista or XP OS and repeat the Upgrade.

Soooo......

I have heard so many different explanations I have come to one conclusion, the upgrade is a good deal for legitimate users and those users had best protect their ability to re-install if the HDD fails.

Personally I suggest image backups, but I KNOW a lot of average user will not do that.

Original installation disk is referred to your OS you upgrade from.
Make sense.

 

[Muad Dib]

Original installation disk is referred to your OS you upgrade from.
Make sense.

Yes, that is what I think. MS is just not describing it explicitly.

 

[J23]

As the starter of this thread how about a rep or 2 .What I have read in the ensuing pages since my post only confirms and deepens my frustration over how MS is going about this. Sure there is time to iron things out but jeez, I really thought MS would have learned from the debacle of price and version points that crippled Vista right out of the gate.
Windows 7 is imho the best OS ever. Let people get it. How they want it. When they want it. Let people understand something as basic but huge as releasing preorders and then the day b4 they end that it hits the blogasphere that there will be a Home 3 computer in place upgrade. I honestly have no idea, having pre purchased a few what on earth I even have. What I can do with it etc...
This is ridicoulous that MS is once again turning something great into a point of confusion and irratation.
J23

 

[DJG]

My money is on you'll need to enter your current XP or Vista key. Keys are unique and managed by MS, and they would be able to track which have been used and the Win 7 upograde key that replaced it. Disks are generic and can be copied, and not always available. I have a Lenovo tablet that came with no installation disk, but it does have the key on the bottom.

Of course this is all speculation, until Oct 22 or MS provides more insight ...