Will Microsoft steal my Windows 7? Why I'm worried.

[ignatzatsonic]

You might want to give Linux another look - there has been huge progress in the last few years...

Sgage:

I don't reject that out of hand. It's conceivable.

Three questions:

1: Is there a "master list" of available software and their sources, perhaps divided into categories such as audio, video, system utilities, backup and recovery, etc? I've got a few Windows applications that would be show-stoppers if I could not find a sane near-equivalent for Linux.

2: What are the 2 or 3 Linux variants that are currently considered most plausible for someone who has not looked at Linux in 20 years and fears a learning curve?

3: Do the variants have equal reliance on the command line or are some more GUI-ish? I'd hate to have to deal with the command line constantly.

 

[sgage]

You might want to give Linux another look - there has been huge progress in the last few years...

Sgage:

I don't reject that out of hand. It's conceivable.

Three questions:

1: Is there a "master list" of available software and their sources, perhaps divided into categories such as audio, video, system utilities, backup and recovery, etc? I've got a few Windows applications that would be show-stoppers if I could not find a sane near-equivalent for Linux.

2: What are the 2 or 3 Linux variants that are currently considered most plausible for someone who has not looked at Linux in 20 years and fears a learning curve?

3: Do the variants have equal reliance on the command line or are some more GUI-ish? I'd hate to have to deal with the command line constantly.

1) I'm sure there is, but I don't know where it might be. All the categories you mentioned are very well taken care of, but if you have certain needs, you might best be served by posting queries on a forum. For what it's worth, I run Quicken and Office under Wine in Linux seamlessly.

2) Ubuntu or Mint. I use Ubuntu Gnome - don't really care for Ubuntu's own 'Unity' interface. Mint is based on Ubuntu, and uses their own 'Cinnamon' interface, that many people really like. But for installation, package management, etc. the Ubuntu/Mint line seems the way to go.

3) All the modern distros are pretty much totally GUI. There is not really any need to dip into the CLI unless you want to delve deeper in some areas.

Linux is different from Windows in a lot of ways, but give it an honest try, and you might be surprised at the state of play these days...

 

[ThrashZone]

Yes software manager is divided up into categories
Between Audacity and kb3 I'm pretty happy with those 2 a lone

Mint Mate 17.1 is good although Zorin is more like 7 I hear I have yet to try it yet but I was really going to get Zorin ultimate which isn't free but only about 15.us but comes with a lot of preinstalled themes I hear.

As far as where to get it whs/ Wolfgang has a tutorial that recommends where
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/287439-emergency-kit-save-your-files-dead-os.html

Zorin here it is and yes the basic is free not to mention plenty of youtube video
Zorin OS - Home

 

[Adams Seven]

If your computer is reasonably quick, the easiest way to experiment might be to:

• Install the Windows host edition of VirtualBox on your current Windows computer. (https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads )
• Download a Linux Mint Cinnamon ISO (Download - Linux Mint).
• Point VirtualBox to this ISO when you use VirtualBox to create a virtual Linux machine.

I found this method to be pretty much risk free. I didn't have to commit to a dual boot configuration; I could remove the virtual machine from VirtualBox, or simply uninstall VirtualBox from Windows 7, as I'd uninstall any other software program.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

If your computer is reasonably quick, the easiest way to experiment might be to:

• Install the Windows host edition of VirtualBox on your current Windows computer. (https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads )
• Download a Linux Mint Cinnamon ISO (Download - Linux Mint).
• Point VirtualBox to this ISO when you use VirtualBox to create a virtual Linux machine.

I found this method to be pretty much risk free. I didn't have to commit to a dual boot configuration; I could remove the virtual machine from VirtualBox, or simply uninstall VirtualBox from Windows 7, as I'd uninstall any other software program.

What's the advantage or disadvantage to that versus putting Mint on a USB stick, say 32 GB?

Purely as an experiment. How fast it runs would be secondary at best. I just need to examine it, install some apps, see what I can or can't do with it, WITHOUT harming my existing Win 7 system.

Dual booting on hard drives isn't going to happen. Nor a second internal hard drive for Linux only. I don't even want to open my case.

 

[lehnerus2000]

I'm pretty much where you are. Not amused with Win 10 as it is now. Fearing a Linux learning curve. Faced with Win 7 end of support. I'm even having occasional Apple thoughts pass through my mind, which hasn't happened since about 1996 either.

IMO, OS X is harder to use than the Linux Distros I've tested (and any version of Windows).

Linux Mint 17.2 MATE is easy to use.
All of my peripherals worked "out of the box" (sound & video).
I do get occasional momentary glitches during video playback (on one of my desktops).

I had to battle to install the ATI driver in my backup W7 desktop (a couple of weeks ago).
It turned out that CCC broke during its install and it wouldn't allow any versions to install correctly.

1: Is there a "master list" of available software and their sources, perhaps divided into categories such as audio, video, system utilities, backup and recovery, etc? I've got a few Windows applications that would be show-stoppers if I could not find a sane near-equivalent for Linux.

A simple solution would be to install VMware Player and create a Windows VM.

You could:

• Then run all of your existing Windows software without any issues
• Even disable the VM's network to protect yourself from "rogue" updates

For example, I have an XP VM with #all# of my old games installed in it.
# I discovered that I had one game that would not run in any VM, or in any version of Windows except XP. #

Macrium Reflect doesn't run in Linux, but you can still use the Rescue CD/DVD/USB to create backup images.
You can also use the "dd" command from the Terminal to do backups.

2: What are the 2 or 3 Linux variants that are currently considered most plausible for someone who has not looked at Linux in 20 years and fears a learning curve?

You could try one of the Ubuntu variants (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu).

I swapped to Linux Mint MATE when Ubuntu swapped to Unity.
A lot of people seem to like Linux Mint Cinnamon.

3: Do the variants have equal reliance on the command line or are some more GUI-ish? I'd hate to have to deal with the command line constantly.

3) All the modern distros are pretty much totally GUI. There is not really any need to dip into the CLI unless you want to delve deeper in some areas.

Linux is different from Windows in a lot of ways, but give it an honest try, and you might be surprised at the state of play these days...

I still need to use the Linux Mint Terminal far more often than I need to use the Windows Command Prompt.

Normally you can just "Cut & Paste" commands from the Internet (if you need to make changes).

What's the advantage or disadvantage to that versus putting Mint on a USB stick, say 32 GB?

Purely as an experiment. How fast it runs would be secondary at best. I just need to examine it, install some apps, see what I can or can't do with it, WITHOUT harming my existing Win 7 system.

Dual booting on hard drives isn't going to happen. Nor a second internal hard drive for Linux only. I don't even want to open my case.

You can create a Live Linux CD/DVD/USB and run it without affecting your installed OS.

The Live USB has the advantage that you can make changes (i.e. install software) and it will remember them.
The Live optical discs have the advantage that they can't be tampered with.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Lehnerus:

Thanks for all of that.

I just watched an hour's worth of youtube reviews on Linux Mint 17.2 with Cinnamon environment. Looked OK to me, so I'll look at it in the next day or two.

I assume you think for my evaluation purposes, Live CD is better than on a flash drive.I see the instructions for that in the Mint User Guide.

I did see some use of the terminal in the reviews on youtube. The reviewer typed in sudo.........to download an app.

Sounds plausible to run a Windows VM within Mint if I had to. At this point, I don't know if I would have to do that with 1, 3, or 25 apps. I'm sure some of my preferred apps are available for Linux, but I haven't checked that out yet.

Is WINE more trouble than it's worth, considering VMs?

 

[Adams Seven]

I'm still a very new hand at Linux, ignatzatsonic; you're likely to get better feedback from those who know the OS better.

That said, I can share my own experiences:

I tried installing Linux on a Pen drive for kicks a year or more ago -- Boot and run Linux from a USB flash memory stick | USB Pen Drive Linux -- and couldn't get it to work.

This time around, just before I opened this thread, I experimented by burning Linux Mint to a CD, booting from the CD and fooling around in the new OS with optical-only access. That was too slow, so I hauled out a rarely used laptop and let Linux Mint create a dual boot configuration. Dual boot worked, but Windows came up more slowly than before on the laptop, and I'd committed hardware unnecessarily to an experiment.

If I had it to do all over again, I would have started my experimentation with the method described in post #24:

• Install the Windows host edition of VirtualBox on your current Windows computer. (https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads )
• Download a Linux Mint Cinnamon ISO (Download - Linux Mint).
• Point VirtualBox to this ISO when you use VirtualBox to create a virtual Linux machine.

The argument for this experimentation method is that VirtualBox and the Linux Mint installation that will live inside it are seen by Win 7 as merely another program. Don't like Linux? Just jump into the Control Panel and uninstall VirtualBox, as you would uninstall any other Win program.

 

[lehnerus2000]

I assume you think for my evaluation purposes, Live CD is better than on a flash drive.I see the instructions for that in the Mint User Guide.

You should be able to use one of the tutorials on SevenForums to create a Live USB stick.

Here is one whs made:
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/287439-emergency-kit-save-your-files-dead-os.html

I did see some use of the terminal in the reviews on youtube. The reviewer typed in sudo.........to download an app.

You don't have to do that.

There are GUI tools for locating and installing additional software (Synaptic Package Manager).

You can also add additional software repositories to increase the amount of software options available.

Is WINE more trouble than it's worth, considering VMs?

I regularly see comments from people complaining about WINE.

It just seems easier (to me) to avoid any issues by using a Windows VM.
A Windows VM will boot slower than a "real" install, but my VMs run smoothly enough after boot up.
If you run your VM from an SSD it should be even better.

My Windows VMs seem to run better on LM17.2, than they do on W7.

You can install Linux Distros on any bootable storage device/media (not only HDDs/SSDs).
Live optical discs will run slowly compared to a Live USB (if you get a decent speed one) or a HDD/SSD install (obviously).

I have previously installed Ubuntu 10 on a USB stick.
Unfortunately the stick had such dismal performance that a Live CD worked better. :shock:
It had crap performance as storage too (appalling write speed).

I have a copy of Linux Mint 17.2 MATE installed on an external (USB 2.0) 1 TB HDD and IMO it performs nicely.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I did get Mint 17.2/Cinnamon running from a DVD. The immediate problems were taskbar, icon, and text size enlargement so I could read the screen well enough to operate.

I've got that at least tentatively solved, but the DVD method is a bit slow, so I'll probably try Virtual Box and a Mint VM, as Adams suggested.

I think I'd have to choose fairly early on which path to take:

1: Install Mint, then attempt to use open-source apps as replacements for most or all Windows apps.
2: Install Mint, then use a Windows VM in at least certain cases.
3: dual boot Mint and Windows.

Choice 2 seems most likely for me. I have a critical Excel file that wasn't right when opened in Libre Calc, so Excel is a VM candidate. Photoshop is also as I hear GIMP isn't an easily learned replacement---even though I'm not a Photoshop power user. Maybe I'll gain more confidence in the replacements as time goes on.

Word isn't critical to me. I looked at the Libre equivalent and saw no problems with it.

I don't reject WINE outright, but it will go on the back burner for now.

Other than that, I figure I can get by barring something unforeseen. Those may be my famous last words as I'm the worst Linux hand on the planet right now.

Thanks to you all.

 

[sgage]

I did get Mint 17.2/Cinnamon running from a DVD. The immediate problems were taskbar, icon, and text size enlargement so I could read the screen well enough to operate.

I've got that at least tentatively solved, but the DVD method is a bit slow, so I'll probably try Virtual Box and a Mint VM, as Adams suggested.

I think I'd have to choose fairly early on which path to take:

1: Install Mint, then attempt to use open-source apps as replacements for most or all Windows apps.
2: Install Mint, then use a Windows VM in at least certain cases.
3: dual boot Mint and Windows.

Choice 2 seems most likely for me. I have a critical Excel file that wasn't right when opened in Libre Calc, so Excel is a VM candidate. Photoshop is also as I hear GIMP isn't an easily learned replacement---even though I'm not a Photoshop power user. Maybe I'll gain more confidence in the replacements as time goes on.

Word isn't critical to me. I looked at the Libre equivalent and saw no problems with it.

I don't reject WINE outright, but it will go on the back burner for now.

Other than that, I figure I can get by barring something unforeseen. Those may be my famous last words as I'm the worst Linux hand on the planet right now.

Thanks to you all.

If you are really interested in exploring the possibilities of Linux, create a separate partition for it and dual boot for a while - that way you won't feel 'cornered'. But run it right on the hardware. And do try to find a friend who is a dab Linux hand. There is no doubt that there is indeed a learning curve - how not? It's different and powerful But you might find that it's worth giving it a real try.

I've been dual booting Windows and Linux since 1998 - been thinking about going all-Linux for most of that time... But I keep Windows around because I need to support a number of people with their systems...

 

[xips]

This looks promising:

BlockWindows

Stop Windows 7 through 10 Nagging and Spying updates, Tasks, IPs, and services. Works with Windows 7 through 10

 

[Wrend]

For those wondering about GNU/Linux, I've been using it for a couple of years on virtual machines. I recently switched my new laptop from Windows 8.1 to Debian "Jessie" with the KDE desktop. It's a very capable and stable desktop platform. Many other versions of GNU/Linux are based of off Debian, including the new Steam OS. It's been around forever and has been consistently improved upon with being stable, secure, and offering a self contained free and open source environment as its primary objectives. It isn't the most popular desktop OS as it isn't trying to be trendy nor is it trying to sell you anything. But in my opinion, it's the most reliable and capable. There is a reason almost everything else is built or based off of it.

And KDE is a nice customizable desktop environment with a lot of features that has also been around for a while but keeps improving.

Like I said, it's running great on my new ASUS laptop which has a new this year i5 Broadwell CPU architecture. I did have to backport the Intel 5500 HD Graphics drivers/firmware to get the graphics acceleration working, but that was pretty straightforward.

I'll be blunt and say that in comparison I'm not much of a fan of Ubuntu nor other trendy GNU/Linux distributions. They can be more hype than substance and can give a bad name to the GNU/Linux desktop environment, in my opinion. But, to each their own, of course.

If anyone is interested, here is the bootable install image I used on my laptop. http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/u...bian-live-8.1.0-amd64-kde-desktop+nonfree.iso You can use that to boot to the KDE desktop environment to see how you like it before installing. If you want a different desktop environment than KDE, here is the directory to choose which one you want. Index of /cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/8.1.0-live+nonfree/amd64/iso-hybrid (Note: These are for 64bit systems. To find the installs for 32bit systems, you'll have to go up a couple of directories.) "Non-free" indicates that these images include proprietary drivers/firmware to use as needed. Feel free to let me know if you have any basic questions about setting up Debian/KDE during or after installation for things such as SSD optimization if you installed to a newer SSD, how to change the desktop look and feel, suggestions for additional programs to get, or similar.

You'll want to test out a GNU/Linux/desktop environment install from a bootable drive, not just a virtual machine install, to make sure everything is working correctly for you. I suggest disconnecting your main boot drive and installing to a USB jump drive or similar to test things out more fully. The "hybrid" ISO install image I linked to is also bootable into KDE to give you a better idea than a virtual machine can provide, but I'd still recommend going through the install process at least once before committing to it on your main drive. Of course make sure you back up any data from any given drive you're working with first.

You can set up a dual boot and likewise set up multiple partitions, but it isn't really worth it in my opinion and sometimes it can be a little problematic. It's often better and easier just to choose what drive you want to boot to from BIOS and have the OS on that drive use the full drive as it sees fit. There may be some exceptions and personal preferences where dual booting and/or multiple partitions are more desirable, but I'll leave those up to people to sort out as they see fit on their own (since they will anyway).

And yes, my main rig is going to be using Windows 7 for the long haul. After that, I will likely switch to GNU/Linux as my main OS.

 

[lehnerus2000]

I did get Mint 17.2/Cinnamon running from a DVD. The immediate problems were taskbar, icon, and text size enlargement so I could read the screen well enough to operate.

I use MATE, so I'm not sure how Cinnamon does things.
In MATE, there is an item labelled Control Centre in the Start Menu.

In general, the right click Context menu is your friend.
Right click "everywhere" and check out the options.

I think I'd have to choose fairly early on which path to take:

1: Install Mint, then attempt to use open-source apps as replacements for most or all Windows apps.
2: Install Mint, then use a Windows VM in at least certain cases.
3: dual boot Mint and Windows.

Choice 2 seems most likely for me.

Choice 2 would be the easiest option.
I dual boot W7 & LM17.2 (I also have Windows and Linux VMs).

If you choose Choice 3 remember to install Windows first and then Linux Mint.
If you plan to install multiple versions of Windows install them in order of their release (i.e. XP > Vista > W7 > W8 > W10).
I've never had any issues with that method.
Note
I always eliminate the Windows System Reserved partition before installing Linux.
When I was triple booting XP, W7 and Linux, the presence of XP prevented W7 from creating the System Reserved partition.

I have a critical Excel file that wasn't right when opened in Libre Calc, so Excel is a VM candidate. Photoshop is also as I hear GIMP isn't an easily learned replacement---even though I'm not a Photoshop power user. Maybe I'll gain more confidence in the replacements as time goes on.

I have seen comments stating that Libre Office can't exactly replicate the behaviour of MS Office (one reason I suggested using a Windows VM).

Personally I find GIMP easier to use than Photoshop (IMO, Adobe GUIs are mostly awful).
IMO, you need to select Single Window mode in GIMP, unless you have multiple monitors.

Photoshop has more tools and tutorials available for it.

I'll be blunt and say that I'm not much of a fan of Ubuntu nor other trendy GNU/Linux distributions. They're more hype than substance and can give a bad name to the GNU/Linux desktop environment, in my opinion. But, to each their own, of course.

My friend, who uses Arch Linux, hates Ubuntu (he's not a fan of Linux Mint either).

 

[Wrend]

...

I'll be blunt and say that I'm not much of a fan of Ubuntu nor other trendy GNU/Linux distributions. They're more hype than substance and can give a bad name to the GNU/Linux desktop environment, in my opinion. But, to each their own, of course.

My friend, who uses Arch Linux, hates Ubuntu (he's not a fan of Linux Mint either).

Yeah, people can get very opinionated about the distributions that they prefer for various reasons. I'm mostly just not a fan of people stopping at the showroom models without seeing what's under the hood. The trendy and popular variants aren't really something I'm personally looking for in an OS. These are just opinions though, so take it with a grain of salt.

Best detached, neutral advice I could give is for people to have a look around and to see what the options and differences in the various distributions and desktop environments are.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Well, let me eat my own words about using a VM.

I just ordered a 60 GB SSD (under $40) and will be dual booting, Windows on a separate SSD.

Why? Partially impulse buying and partially because I spent an hour fiddling with Mint in Virtualbox on Windows 7 and got absolutely nowhere. I assume that's due to my inexperience with VMs, but I decided rather than climb that learning curve, I'd be better off spending $40 and remaining old fashioned.

I just made a Rufus USB installer for Mint and confirmed that it boots. No reason I can't look at Mate as well.

 

[ThrashZone]

Best thing I ever bought was a ez swap evo dual ssd/ hdd panel
I have no idea how I lived without it before
This keeps all boot loaders separate especially 8.1 & 10
Amazon.com: Vantec 2.5-Inch Dual Bay Trayless SATA III - 6G Mobile Rack (MRK-225S6-BK): Computers & Accessories

 

[Layback Bear]

I use the same type of hardware just a different brand.
Hot swapping ssd works well for me.

 

[Adams Seven]

ignatzatsonic, I'm sure you had bad luck with Mint in a Windows 7 VM. I'm the one who recommended that route for an experiment, so I can't help feeling responsible.

It do think it's a nearly foolproof way of taking a dip into Linux, though. Worst case scenario: uninstall VirtualBox.

It now looks like I'm leaning hard toward the Linux fork in my personal computing road, and plan to have at my original Win 7 boot disk by freeing up some space with diskmgmt.msc, then letting Linux Mint configure itself as a dual-bootable OS. I wouldn't do that if I weren't pretty sure I'll be mostly a Linuxer from here on in. I'll post any interesting results.

 

[ThrashZone]

I use the same type of hardware just a different brand.
Hot swapping ssd works well for me.

Yep I had no luck finding your model Jack
I did need one with a lock/ key so kids would not get injured ejecting by curiosity and of course me by accident