Solved Win 7 copy corrupts Win XP filesystem

[Stuart CDS]

I have a new laptop, Win 7 Enterprise 64 bit. I have an old laptop Win XP SP3. I wanted to make a complete copy of my old hard drive to my new hard drive, so mounted the old laptop drive in an external USB enclosure and plugged it into the new laptop.

Using Win 7's explorer, I select all the files in the old drive, and copy them to a location in the new drive. Part way through I get the infamous "You need permission from the administrators to **make changes to this file**". The error itself is a whole separate thread, so we'll ignore that. The "making changes to this file"... I put it down initially to a poorly worded dialog box. I made several attempts over the weekend to make Win 7 do the copy, but all failed, including one attempt with the hidden admin account.

This morning I put my XP drive back into my old laptop and part of the XP install was corrupt. Win 7, performing a **read-only** operation, did in fact "make changes to this file". What exactly I'm not sure, but it broke XP. I had to use an OEM XP CD to do a repair.

The symptom was that every menu in XP displayed incorrectly. Start Menu, menu bars, Outlook, all broken.

I've done quite a lot of searching and can't find any discussion on this particular issue. I suspect Win 7's indexing helpfully updating the old hard drive, but am not sure how to prove this.
Update: I did not attempt the "take ownership" fix for the permissions, as I must not alter the old drive in any way.

So the question: how can I make a complete copy of my old XP drive onto my new Win 7 drive, without Win 7 corrupting the XP install?

...Stu

 

[seavixen32]

Welcome to Windows Seven Forums.

If you're wanting to dual boot XP and 7 it's best to install XP first. I'm sure you can't just copy the data in the manner you describe.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/8057-dual-boot-installation-windows-7-xp.html

 

[gregrocker]

Are you trying to copy your data into Win7, copy the XP installation onto your new Win7 HD to create a Dual Boot, or are you trying to overwrite Win7 with XP?

It needs to be clearer to give you the exact steps.

If you are trying to copy your data over this can be done over the network, via DVD or USB flash or external HD.

To Dual Boot you can shrink Win7 in Disk Mgmt to make a space to reimage your XP onto using Macrium Reflect, Paragon 11 freeware or the free versions of Acronis premium imaging app which come with a WD or Seagate HD. Macrium - Image your system. Then add XP to a Dual Boot menu using EasyBCD 2.02 from Win7.

 

[Stuart CDS]

Welcome to Windows Seven Forums.

Thanks.

If you're wanting to dual boot XP and 7

I am not.

 

[Stuart CDS]

Are you trying to copy your data into Win7, copy the XP installation onto your new Win7 HD to create a Dual Boot, or are you trying to overwrite Win7 with XP?

Your first item, copy my old data into my new machine, as I said in my original post. That includes user data, windows installation, everything.

It needs to be clearer to give you the exact steps.

I gave exact steps, unless you are looking for click by click steps? I didn't think that level of detail was necessary. Please give me an idea of what you think is missing.
Update: I still do not know what you think is missing. I have two explorer windows. I select all the files in the old drive in the first window, and copy them to the new location on the new drive in the second window.

If you are trying to copy your data over this can be done over the network, via DVD or USB flash or external HD.

I am using an external USB enclosure with my old laptop drive, as I said in my original post.

I am considering this:
- mount old hard drive on third machine, running XP
- make an exact copy to a network drive
- move exact copy from network to new laptop

That will insulate my original drive from whatever Win 7 is *writing* to the exact copy when doing a *read-only* copy.

What I'd really like to know is what is Win 7 writing to the old filesystem, why, and how do I shut it off?

 

[Stuart CDS]

Thanks all for your help.

 

[gregrocker]

You'll not get much help here exhibiting irritation and impatience with those trying hard to help you.

We are impertinent for not realizing that you are simply trying to copy your data in. Then in the next sentence you say this is to include your "windows installation" as though this is something which can be copied in like data.

A few paragraphs later you refer to creating an "image" to copy your data in, then "moving the image to the new laptop" which can only mean dual booting or overwriting what's on the laptop. This is why I asked you to be clearer.

An image is created to store and reimage the OS and any other selected partitions onto a Hard Drive overwriting whatever is on the target partition or HD, not to transfer data in.
Backup Complete Computer - Create an Image Backup
System Image Recovery

Copy data in by moving it piecemeal over the network, via external HD, USB flash or CD/DVD, or using a file transfer Wizard like Windows Easy Transfer from Win7.
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/115321-windows-easy-transfer-xp-vista-windows-7-a.html

Mounting your XP HD as an external USB will often throw up permissioning problems although they can be overcome by taking ownership of the files from User down: Take Ownership Shortcut. Other unexpected consequences can arise, as you found.

If you want any further help you'll need to be a lot nicer. We are volunteers here.

 

[Stuart CDS]

You'll not get much help here exhibiting irritation and impatience with those trying hard to help you.

I wondered if someone might read that into my post. I am not irritated or impatient but neither can I help what others infer from my words. In the cases where I pointed out that I'd already provided the information in my original post, I did so to answer queries.

We are impertinent for not realizing that you are simply trying to copy your data in.

No one's impertinent. I wasn't clear enough.

Then in the next sentence you say this is to include your "windows installation" as though this is something which can be copied in like data.

XP's C:\WINDOWS can be copied in, all files are merely data. That's exactly what I want; I am not overwriting or dual-booting or installing. Just making a copy of the old drive.

To attempt a crystal clear explanantion:

Old XP drive, 2 partitions:
C:\<all C: stuff>
D:\<all D: stuff>

copies to

new 7 drive, 1 partition:
C:\Old drive\C\<all C: stuff>
C:\Old drive\D\<all D: stuff>

without altering the old drive in any manner. Every OS I've ever used can accomplish this, except Win 7.

A few paragraphs later you refer to creating an "image" to copy your data in, then "moving the image to the new laptop" which can only mean dual booting or overwriting what's on the laptop. This is why I asked you to be clearer.

In my lexicon an image is simply an exact copy. Yes, images can be used to take a hard drive from blank to working, that's not my intent.

An image is created to store and reimage the OS and any other selected partitions onto a Hard Drive overwriting whatever is on the target partition or HD, not to transfer data in.

Okay, so we have different understandings of the word image. I will adapt to you. Please read "exact copy" wherever I have said image. If I can I will go back and edit my posts. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
Update: Previous posts edited for clarity.

Copy data in by moving it piecemeal

Piecemeal is going to take too long, and probably miss some configuration data.
Update: Background of what I'm trying to do: I need to reinstall a large number of apps, some quite old, on the new laptop, which is Win 7 64 bit Enterprise. This is going to take a while. In the meantime, I need my old laptop to remain functional. My plan:
- make an exact copy of the old hard drive somewhere on the new hard drive
- continue using old laptop
- in the meantime, work on setting up apps on the new laptop
- when the new laptop is ready to become my primary machine, repeat the exact copy
- use new laptop as primary
- wipe and reinstall the old laptop and repurpose it

Piecemeal copying of data is likely to miss something vital, given the apps I have installed. Anything missed will be lost in the wipe.

My problem is that when Win 7 makes the exact copy of the old hard drive, it writes something to it which breaks the XP installation on it.

Mounting your XP HD as an external USB will often throw up permissioning problems although they can be overcome by taking ownership of the files from User down: Take Ownership Shortcut. Other unexpected consequences can arise, as you found.

Taking ownership of the old files *writes* to the old filesystem. I need a copy, which is a *read-only* operation.

If you want any further help you'll need to be a lot nicer. We are volunteers here.

I'm sorry you read my posts as unnice. I hope I've improved.

 

[SIW2]

Interesting - I haven't needed to do that myself.

Did you make the folders on your win 7 partition - then use xcopy to do the job?

I assume you are wanting to copy just the folders - and not all the used sectors.

 

[Stuart CDS]

Did you make the folders on your win 7 partition - then use xcopy to do the job?

I made the folders, then used explorer's gui to effect the copy. I haven't tried xcopy or robocopy on the assumption that whatever is altering the old filesystem is in the windows kernel that is shared by explorer, xcopy and robocopy. That might not be true, but if it is, it means another XP repair for me so I am not testing that option unless I have to.

I assume you are wanting to copy just the folders - and not all the used sectors.

I want to copy the folders and files, all data in use. I don't need a dd-level copy where I get the unused tail portion of sectors, or unused sectors.

 

[Stuart CDS]

I never did figure out the answer to my original question; how can I force Win 7 to make a copy of the old drive without writing to the source and thus breaking it.

What I've resorted to is making a complete second backup drive via our IT's backup software, and using that as the source for the copy to the Win 7 drive. That way any (illegal) writes to the source won't affect my original laptop. Annoying but true.

Also, a few items like "\System Volume Information" required me to add Admin as Full Control before it would copy. I suspect this is an equivalent-effect operation as the take ownership workaround I've seen posted.

Also, I was wrong. It turns out XP also can't make a complete image of its own drive, due to attempting to obey NTFS file permissions. So Win 7 is the second OS that can't make a complete image of an old hard drive. (The last time I tried that with Win XP, it was from Win 98 to Win XP, and I don't think Win 98 had the NTFS file permissions.)

I don't know why this is such a hassle in Windows. Under Linux, when you're root you can do what you want, making these sorts of hard drive copies is a single command.

Thanks all for the help.

 

[Layback Bear]

Your question.
I never did figure out the answer to my original question; how can I force Win 7 to make a copy of the old drive without writing to the source and thus breaking it.
Answer.
You don't force Windows 7 to do anything you work with it and others.

 

[Stuart CDS]

Disagree.

What I want is perfectly reasonable and well within the capability of Win7.

What Win7 gives me is what Microsoft *thinks* I want, which isn't the same thing at all.

Therefore, I must force it to do what I want.

 

[Britton30]

When I've mad a backup/image with Windows 7 built-in tools (Backup) I always use a different destination than the source. Works better.