Windows 7 to be shipped in Europe sans IE

[PhreePhly]

@PhreePhly

MS is a monopolist. The EU foremost represents the EU customers, not so much other companies in this case. Maybe you should take a look in your own backyard and see what happens when there is no regulation. I give you a clue: "sub loans". Thank you very much

Actually, MS was a monopolist back in 1996, and was found to abused that position in 2001. The EU finally got around to going after MS in 2004. And I'm not necessarily against the fines imposed in 2004. They served their purpose, and changed how MS operates, just as intended. The last few actions have little bearing in reality and look to be purely vindictive. This last one is completely stupid. MS agrees with the EU, decides not to include IE, and now they want to continue the investigation. Total crap.

Ohh, and don't forget that plenty of your Central Banks knew about the "sub-loans" and still purchased them, even with all of your regulation. Seems regulation might not be the only issue, greed seems to play a pretty big part, also.

PhreePhly

 

[jimbo45]

Hi all

Perhaps we are all getting a little carried away here
After all MS can simply add the IE browser in a folder called EXTRAS on the Windows distribution DVD (or even as a separate supplemental DVD) and instruct the user to load the 2nd DVD / EXTRAS folder and install the browser like any other software.

Note that they could even offer OPERA / SAFARI etc on the disk as well -- but you have to be a little bit careful with some Open Source programs -- whilst the License might be FREE for home users there could be implications in using some of this alternative software in a commercial environment

For example MySQL is freely downloadable to home users but if you use it in a commercial environment you have to buy a commercial license to legally use it.

What irritates me beyond measure here is that the ruling also applies to the EEA which is technically OUTSIDE the EU so we should be exempt.

Why on Earth if I buy the product in Iceland for example should I be forced to get the same conditions as a country BELONGING to the EU.

In any case I'm sure 99% of people will either have the OEM pre-installed W7 package or will source the product from non EU sources.

As I posted previously -- totally WASTED court case which will be 100% ineffective. (Also if these Bozos from their nice shiny new HQ in Brussels try and insist on this stuff it will make me DETERMINED to install IE whether I want it or not just to prove how stupid they are).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Dwarf]

Rubbish, the only thing the EU represents is the loony unelected bureaucrats that run it.

+1 from me too. There is one thing I have to say though, and this is that we should not present loonies in this light. It is an insult for them to be associated in this manner. Having said that, we might get more common sense if the EU was run by bona-fide loonies.

 

[PhreePhly]

Hi all

Perhaps we are all getting a little carried away here
After all MS can simply add the IE browser in a folder called EXTRAS on the Windows distribution DVD (or even as a separate supplemental DVD) and instruct the user to load the 2nd DVD / EXTRAS folder and install the browser like any other software.

Note that they could even offer OPERA / SAFARI etc on the disk as well -- but you have to be a little bit careful with some Open Source programs -- whilst the License might be FREE for home users there could be implications in using some of this alternative software in a commercial environment

The only issue I have with this solution is that now the EU is dictating what MS must include in the release. How many browsers does MS add to the disk? There are probably 10 browsers available on Windows. Most of them have less than 1% share, but where do you draw that line. Making 1% that limit would keep Opera off that list, funny, but problematic. MS solved that problem by adding NO browser and leaving it up to OEMs.

What irritates me beyond measure here is that the ruling also applies to the EEA which is technically OUTSIDE the EU so we should be exempt.

Why on Earth if I buy the product in Iceland for example should I be forced to get the same conditions as a country BELONGING to the EU.

Well, Opera is from Norway, who is also not in the EU and a EEA member.

In any case I'm sure 99% of people will either have the OEM pre-installed W7 package or will source the product from non EU sources.

As I posted previously -- totally WASTED court case which will be 100% ineffective. (Also if these Bozos from their nice shiny new HQ in Brussels try and insist on this stuff it will make me DETERMINED to install IE whether I want it or not just to prove how stupid they are).

Cheers
jimbo

Agreed. Again, I have no problem with the EU regulating monopolistic behavior. I'm not sure MS is the same monopoly it was 10-15 years ago. Linux, Firefox, Apple, even Novell, etc. have made MS less of a necessity. Much of that has to do with the actions taken by the EU and the US.gov.

PhreePhly

 

[SIW2]

This has some relevance :

Sanity check: Have we now entered the post-OS era? | Tech Sanity Check | TechRepublic.com

 

[Night Hawk]

The one thing the article lacks is the fact that Jobs introduced the first desktop system while BG introduced the first graphical user interface with the introduction and presentation of the 1.0 beta back in 1983 to be seen out 2yrs. later. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/WinHistoryDesktop.mspx

Another article by the same author however brings up some interesting points or predictions made in early 2008 on how MS will be making some changes to some extent.

"To be clear, I am not predicting that Microsoft will do a quick-and-massive overhaul of Windows Vista in the next 12 months. Instead, I think we’ll see Microsoft do the following:

• Strip out or minimize some of Windows Vista’s clunkiest features — especially User Account Control
• Simplify the interface back to something closer to Windows XP
• Reduce backward compatibility in order to streamline the code base
• Work much harder with vendors to ensure driver and software compatibility with new hardware and applications
• Reduce the cost of Windows in retail boxes in order to generate goodwill and undercut Mac OS X (meanwhile, this will have little effect on the price of enterprise licensing, which is already much cheaper than retail)
• Learn from the long delay of Windows Vista and move to an incremental release model with a subscription and at least one major update per year. Financially, most IT departments are already on a subscription plan. Now look for Microsoft to move consumers in this direction.
• Release Windows 7 by the end of 2009 and market it as the simplest and easiest Windows ever" Prediction: Microsoft will leapfrog Vista, release Windows 7 early, and change its OS business | Tech Sanity Check | TechRepublic.com

Items #1, #4, #5, #6, #7 seem to hit the mark there. Backward compatibility #3 seen with 7 so far hasn't been lost since I have a few things running here that ran on 98-XP! As for item #2 we've all seen the enhancements with the new taskbar over both XP and Vista alike with 7 also featuring the Flip 3D introduced with Vista.

The latest EU issue simply reflects how long MS has been accused of monopolizing their OS by simply providing a newer version of the same browser with each new version of Windows. On the OS doesn't matter part I think some will still hesitate to agree on that one!

Despite the cross platform support slowing seeing a long awaited improvement with virtualization and even using a live Linux distro for a data recovery tool on a Windows machine which OS do you generally most running?

The thing that will get most however is going to install 7 and seeing the options for downloading updates or avoiding updates during the installation process, choosing the network setting of home, business, other, and then finding no browser installed. For direct downloads from Microsoft for the most part you still need IE there for any MS downloader to work.

 

[petrossa]

First of all, ActiveX was not developed to kill Java, it was developed to provide a better framework for OLE/COM. It was meant to interact with not just IE but Office apps, Media Player, Visual Studio, etc.
PhreePhly

Since Javascript was already available to do what Activex did poorly afterwards, the inclusion of activex in HTML scripts was pointless, other then to stifle the adoption of java in browsers. A normal player on the market would have stepped in and helped push java further along faster.

A monopolist would see it as a threat to their monopoly and fight it hand, tooth and nails.

Furthermore the EU is not dictating what to put in (yet) but just not to make competition virtually impossible.

Should the EU dictate what to put in, then MS can either decide to put it in, or decide to loose their largest paying customer. To my mind MS's shareholders would have a dim view of the latter.

Lastely, one should inform oneself of the facts before making remarks about 'looney' burocrats. If it weren't for those 'looney' burocrats member countries could impose stringent anti-piracy laws as proposed by Napoleon Sarkozy. And that includes the UK who had a very open ear to Sarky's ridiculous law proposal.

Also they protected you from your governments desire to invade and control your privacy on the net, not in the least by making internet a basic necessity of life equal to electricity, water.

The list of good things is longer then the bad things.

 

[Boris]

Ohh, and don't forget that plenty of your Central Banks knew about the "sub-loans" and still purchased them, even with all of your regulation. Seems regulation might not be the only issue, greed seems to play a pretty big part, also.PhreePhly

Agreed, I was just pointing at the root of the problem.

I think we could go on forever discussing this topic. Seems people like to blame the EU or Opera, but have limitless faith in MS.

I wish people would take a bit more time to look at all sides of the problem. One more click on installation is not much to ask if you get more open standards in return, is it?

 

[ian1983]

As there is no option to upgrade from xp or vista with Windows 7e most ppl installing will have the technical knowledge to download a browser setup.

For the others that take it to the local pc shop im sure the staff would just put on a browser after install.

 

[Dwarf]

That is not the point. What is the point is this: Why should those of us who are unfortunate enough to reside in Europe have to go through the rigmarole of having to separately install a browser just because a bunch of EU dictats decree that MS (a US-based company) should only release W7 without a browser in this part of the World?
:mad2:

 

[wwoods]

That is not the point. What is the point is this: Why should those of us who are unfortunate enough to reside in Europe have to go through the rigmarole of having to separately install a browser just because a bunch of EU dictats decree that MS (a US-based company) should only release W7 without a browser in this part of the World?
:mad2:

Because, youre counties elected officials decided joining the EU was in your alls best interest....

I am sorry that you are all getting the shaft, but as a American, I cant help but smile a bit after your countries laughed at us for the last few years.

 

[Dwarf]

Because, youre counties elected officials decided joining the EU was in your alls best interest....

I seem to recall our current government, in their election manifesto, promising us a referendum on the issue of EU membership should they be elected. Surprise, surprise. They've been elected and reneged on this issue. Perhaps they knew that the overwhelming concensus of the population would be to withdraw from this dictatorship.

See http://www.sevenforums.com/chillout-room/15627-eu.html

 

[manosdoc]

IE will be provided as an Optional Update on Windows Update at Windows 7 E Versions around GA time.

 

[Night Hawk]

Now what was that you were saying? Check off the download updates option during the installation. It seems to me the optional updates might just happen to include... ? despite all the EU grumbling! right under their noses!

 

[pestbest]

I just want you guys to remind yourselfs that it was Microsoft who made the decision to remove IE from Windows 7. EU's idea was to create a ballot screen. But that doesn't change the fact that EU fails.

 

[SIW2]

I don't know how you work that out.

IF the oem's bundle a fair choice, or at least a wider choice of browsers - that can only be a good thing for consumers.

The monopolies commission would have achieved something - if not exactly what they wanted.

 

[petrossa]

It ain't over till the fat lady sings......

The EU hasn't yet put out their final decision. Sure as hell they don't care much for the Sans IE option so that's a non starter. Probably why MS is backpedalling on the Win 7 E version.

Will see what our wise and distinguished members of the Committee will do. I have full confidence being Dutch and the chairperson is a Dutch version of Margaret Thatcher on steroids

 

[SIW2]

the chairperson is a Dutch version of Margaret Thatcher on steroids

You wouldn't want to tangle with her from the sound of it :shock:

 

[wwoods]

It ain't over till the fat lady sings......

The EU hasn't yet put out their final decision. Sure as hell they don't care much for the Sans IE option so that's a non starter. Probably why MS is backpedalling on the Win 7 E version.

Will see what our wise and distinguished members of the Committee will do. I have full confidence being Dutch and the chairperson is a Dutch version of Margaret Thatcher on steroids

Honestly, MS should tell the EU to take a flying ****, ship the non IE version. There, no browser......deal with it. MS should NOT be forced to help their competition in any way. Just like if I ran a company, why and the hell would I want to help the competition. let em fail....more $$ for me.

And by looks of things, thats what MS is gonna do, no IE, good on em.....

I am glad that whole EU thing is working out so well for ya.

 

[Night Hawk]

No IE elements at all acccrding to the EU's wishes? Gee that means you have to reinstall Windows every 30 days since the IE core elements used for activation would also have to be removed. Good thinking EU!