Windows 7 to be shipped in Europe sans IE

[petrossa]

Honestly, MS should tell the EU to take a flying ****, ship the non IE version. There, no browser......deal with it. MS should NOT be forced to help their competition in any way. Just like if I ran a company, why and the hell would I want to help the competition. let em fail....more $$ for me.

And by looks of things, thats what MS is gonna do, no IE, good on em.....

I am glad that whole EU thing is working out so well for ya.

snipsnipsnip:

But the commission, in a statement, dismissed the offer, saying the move would not further its goal of promoting browsers that compete with Internet Explorer.

Instead, Microsoft and European authorities appear on course for another legal collision over the software maker’s bundling of major applications into Windows, which, according to the research firm Gartner, runs more than 95 percent of computers in the world.

One reason for the quick rejection, according to competition lawyers in Brussels and a commission spokesman, is that the European Commission did not want to repeat a mistake of the first Microsoft case, when it ordered the software maker in 2004 to sell a version of Windows in Europe without its media player.

Microsoft responded by selling its so-called N version of Windows for the same price as its full version, and consumers rejected the stripped-down system. The remedy also did not significantly improve the lot of competing media players. Microsoft said it sold only a few thousand copies of the N version.

This time, the commission has indicated it may want Microsoft to distribute Windows with competing Web browsers preinstalled and then allow retailers and computer makers to decide from a “ballot screen” menu which browsers to install. About 95 percent of computer operating systems are sold preinstalled on new computers.

 

[petrossa]

You wouldn't want to tangle with her from the sound of it :shock:

you ain't kidding:

EU's Kroes says E.ON, GDF breaches were serious | Industries | Industrials, Materials & Utilities | Reuters

 

[Zidane24]

snipsnipsnip:

But the commission, in a statement, dismissed the offer, saying the move would not further its goal of promoting browsers that compete with Internet Explorer.

Instead, Microsoft and European authorities appear on course for another legal collision over the software maker’s bundling of major applications into Windows, which, according to the research firm Gartner, runs more than 95 percent of computers in the world.

One reason for the quick rejection, according to competition lawyers in Brussels and a commission spokesman, is that the European Commission did not want to repeat a mistake of the first Microsoft case, when it ordered the software maker in 2004 to sell a version of Windows in Europe without its media player.

Microsoft responded by selling its so-called N version of Windows for the same price as its full version, and consumers rejected the stripped-down system. The remedy also did not significantly improve the lot of competing media players. Microsoft said it sold only a few thousand copies of the N version.

This time, the commission has indicated it may want Microsoft to distribute Windows with competing Web browsers preinstalled and then allow retailers and computer makers to decide from a “ballot screen” menu which browsers to install. About 95 percent of computer operating systems are sold preinstalled on new computers.

But of course (and with each decision by the EU's commission this is getting worse) allowing people to choose their browser is fine....except that "commom" computer users might experience consumer fright at a choice of a browser from a list of them. There would have to be explanations and still then people would be skeptical at making such a choice...of course Microsoft could include browsers pre-installed but that adds bloat to the OS and would be unfair to IE because they would be eliminating its chance to be competitive with the other browsers in the list or preinstalled. No matter what EU decides...they have just created a complete mess and the only people it is hurting is the populace of the EU. I wish they would get off their personal vendetta against Microsoft and just let people use the OS as it was meant too

 

[Night Hawk]

But of course (and with each decision by the EU's commission this is getting worse) allowing people to choose their browser is fine....except that "commom" computer users might experience consumer fright at a choice of a browser from a list of them. There would have to be explanations and still then people would be skeptical at making such a choice...of course Microsoft could include browsers pre-installed but that adds bloat to the OS and would be unfair to IE because they would be eliminating its chance to be competitive with the other browsers in the list or preinstalled. No matter what EU decides...they have just created a complete mess and the only people it is hurting is the populace of the EU. I wish they would get off their personal vendetta against Microsoft and just let people use the OS as it was meant too

When do you think "common sense" will play a role in all of this? NEVER! is just one simple word! Aristocratic Burocratic "erragance" would be one definition that some would apply to the EU!

Like any other global competitor taking on a union this will have it's own life for years to come. Apparently the EU's idea is to have a Windows that comes with nothing in it besides a bare OS where European software companies can then sell separate programs in each catagory. Plus the EU gains a control over the average user in a sense.

 

[Zidane24]

When do you think "common sense" will play a role in all of this? NEVER! is just one simple word! Aristocratic Burocratic "erragance" would be one definition that some would apply to the EU!

Like any other global competitor taking on a union this will have it's own life for years to come. Apparently the EU's idea is to have a Windows that comes with nothing in it besides a bare OS where European software companies can then sell separate programs in each catagory. Plus the EU gains a control over the average user in a sense.

You know with all of the hardships Microsoft has dealt with when dealing with the EU...I would (and please forgive me all of my fellow friends here on Win7Forums who are under their leadership), if I was Microsoft, have pulled Windows out of the EU. The only thing keeping them there is the sales and userbase. Microsoft has paid out their ass in "fines" to them regarding cases involving Monopolies, WMP, IE...If they did indeed pull Windows out of there than I am sorry all of you guys who live in the EU and as far as their "commission" is concerned...go **** yourselves...I am tired of seeing you screwing the **** out of your people and I hope that if any reelection occurs than it ends with the door hitting you in the ass on the way out

PS I apologize for the excessive slang...I am not normally this way but it boils my blood to see organizations hurt the people to just further their own agendas'

 

[petrossa]

Do you all have stock in MSFT? They choose voluntarily to sell goods on the EU market. If you want to do that you have to follow the rules of that market. If you don't you get sanctioned.

The EU has it's eyes on MS since about 1999, gave them lot's of leeway, tried reasoning with them. Took them on their good faith in 2004 and got screwed as a result.

So now they've had enough and they put their foot down.
Play by the rules or suffer the consequences.

What's so hard to understand here?

 

[Night Hawk]

I think we all get the drift on that when simply looking at how long this has been going on to start with. The plight against MS could also apply to other softwares as well as other OSs when you stop and think that some of the more popular programs will have and note the "will have" a few more features then the next.

Does that mean one software company that sells a dvd burning program with a few additional features is next in line? "Gee? if you include the photo snap option in ... blah blah blah we will fine the living daylights out of you!" bunk from EU!

The best description probably goes as "software dictatorship"! The big fuss is over one company and "their own" operating system that "just happens to be" note widely used being the target for all this. You don't the EU screaming at the ubuntu people for including FireFox or the Knoppix people for including the Konqueror and Ice browsers now do you?

"Well that's iopen source!" No the EU just can't make money through fines from the open source people! But behind closed doors in the EU a subtle whisper goes: "and yes with all the money MS has we can dip our hands into the till... by fines and other..." :sarc:

 

[Zidane24]

Do you all have stock in MSFT? They choose voluntarily to sell goods on the EU market. If you want to do that you have to follow the rules of that market. If you don't you get sanctioned.

The EU has it's eyes on MS since about 1999, gave them lot's of leeway, tried reasoning with them. Took them on their good faith in 2004 and got screwed as a result.

So now they've had enough and they put their foot down.
Play by the rules or suffer the consequences.

What's so hard to understand here?

Ok...where is the reason in targeting one Manufacture for bundled products and no other? But that's fine...I would toast to Microsoft tomorrow if they pull Windows out of the EU and concentrate on more important matters at hand. This whole deal with the EU has been a phenomenal waste of time (and money based upon suits), lets see their "commission" go cry their asses off on that one

and petrossa...take this as no insult/attack towards yourself

 

[petrossa]

and I hope that if any reelection occurs than it ends with the door hitting you in the ass on the way out

No luck there mate. We've just had elections and center/right won overwhelmingly.
Kroes belongs to the liberal corner, so......

 

[petrossa]

"Well that's iopen source!" No the EU just can't make money through fines from the open source people! But behind closed doors in the EU a subtle whisper goes: "and yes with all the money MS has we can dip our hands into the till... by fines and other..." :sarc:

There's a vast gap of knowledge here:

Complaints against EU open source agenda may overlook a policy breakthrough | Tech Policy & Law News - Betanews

 

[Zidane24]

I think we all get the drift on that when simply looking at how long this has been going on to start with. The plight against MS could also apply to other softwares as well as other OSs when you stop and think that some of the more popular programs will have and note the "will have" a few more features then the next.

Does that mean one software company that sells a dvd burning program with a few additional features is next in line? "Gee? if you include the photo snap option in ... blah blah blah we will fine the living daylights out of you!" bunk from EU!

The best description probably goes as "software dictatorship"! The big fuss is over one company and "their own" operating system that "just happens to be" note widely used being the target for all this. You don't the EU screaming at the ubuntu people for including FireFox or the Knoppix people for including the Konqueror and Ice browsers now do you?

"Well that's iopen source!" No the EU just can't make money through fines from the open source people! But behind closed doors in the EU a subtle whisper goes: "and yes with all the money MS has we can dip our hands into the till... by fines and other..." :sarc:

I agree whole heartedly...The fact that Microsoft has deep pockets is why this is continued so far. The EU only hurts their people through this money making agenda of theirs. If it really was because "they violated their rules" than where is the ****ing lawsuit against Apple or anyone else who bundles apps with their software? Till I see one...**** off EU.

PS I am not a MSFT fanboy...but really this whole battle going on because of a damn browser being included is ridiculous

 

[Zidane24]

No luck there mate. We've just had elections and center/right won overwhelmingly.
Kroes belongs to the liberal corner, so......

unbelievable...they must do other things correctly or the alternative choices weren't that great. Was the election public?

 

[Night Hawk]

Even with IE included in Windows one question still comes up! What do you see when going to install yes easily install another browser on Windows?

The answer to that one as well as when first opening up WMP is quite simple. "Do you want ? to be the default ? browser?, media player?"! If you install that media player with a big "I" in front of the T for unes that will also ask if you want that to be the default player.

So I guess the question is where has MS monopolized Windows by simply including IE when you can simply right click on the IE icon to send that on it's way and run any other Windows compatible browser by choice? Simply because it's there?

 

[z3r010]

I hope that if any reelection occurs than it ends with the door hitting you in the ass on the way out

The problem with that is that the EU is a bureaucratic dictatorship with only a puppet Parliament to give it the look of democracy.

 

[petrossa]

I agree whole heartedly...The fact that Microsoft has deep pockets is why this is continued so far. The EU only hurts their people through this money making agenda of theirs. If it really was because "they violated their rules" than where is the ****ing lawsuit against Apple or anyone else who bundles apps with their software? Till I see one...**** off EU.

PS I am not a MSFT fanboy...but really this whole battle going on because of a damn browser being included is ridiculous

I don't know how often i have to post this:

MS has been determined to be a monopolist. They fought it in court and lost. So to all intents and purposes they are by EU rules a monopolist.

As soon as Apple or anyone else becomes a monopolist and decides to use it's position to leverage it's own products will be treated likewise.

a) The fines levied are redistributed over the memberstates per ratio of their contribution.
b) The courtcases have to be paid out of the regular EU budget
c) Currently the EU budget hovers around 1% of the total BNP of the memberstates, so it is about 113.000.000.000 euro.
d) presently the EU has around 500.000.000 inhabitants against 300.000.000 in the US making the EU a very important market indeed.

 

[petrossa]

unbelievable...they must do other things correctly or the alternative choices weren't that great. Was the election public?

Yes, very. Even far right got more seats, left lost a lot.

 

[petrossa]

So I guess the question is where has MS monopolized Windows by simply including IE when you can simply right click on the IE icon to send that on it's way and run any other Windows compatible browser by choice? Simply because it's there?

No it's not a question anymore. The courts have ruled that the EU was right in deciding MS is a monopolist.

So thats a fact of life MS has to live with or as others suggested take it's business elsewhere.

But if i was shareholder i would kick out the Board immediately if they where to just throw a major part of their revenues away.

How things will turn out in the end, we'll see. The EU has no timelimit on when to impose their decision, but when it is it will be retroactive.

I'd seriously tone down if i were MS

 

[petrossa]

The problem with that is that the EU is a bureaucratic dictatorship with only a puppet Parliament to give it the look of democracy.

Yep, truer words were never said. But, they are there. I voted NO on the EU constitution as did the majority of French,Dutch,Irish.

Still it's implemented in stages which are not put up for vote by the member states.

But as the saying goes, if you're being shaved better sit still

 

[z3r010]

At least you got a vote

 

[Night Hawk]

I guess some people don't take that into account. Not everyplace had/has that option and will suffer through all this. But the EU fails to take into account the time when Windows lacked a browser any browser before all this originally came up. Simply go back before the 9x family to see that.