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Windows 7: Permissions

08 Dec 2010   #1
tucansam

win7
 
 
Permissions

I've been a Windows user since Windows 2.0 and have been using Win7 for about three weeks, so I will probably be posting a ton trying to get help as I slowly re-learn an OS that I have used for decades. Win7 is very, very different...

I am having major issues with drive mapping and permissions.

Re: drive mapping. I have the same user account with the same password on three XP and one Win7 system; this user is a member of each computer's administrators group. All computers are part of the same workgroup. XP can map drives to XP easily. Win7 cannot map drives to XP, and XP cannot map drives to Win7. I am used to the "net use z: \\machine\c$ /user:administrator" syntax and this has worked for me for many years. I am struggling to get this to work with Win7. I have read a dozen articles online but nothing I have seen works. Suggestions?

Re: permissions. This is *my* system. I wrongly assumed Win7 would trust me enough to give me complete control over *my* computer. Sadly, it does not. I popped in an old SATA disk drive with some data on it, and couldn't even access it. Had to change ownership, change permissions... What a pain in the rear that was. Really? How is this forward thinking? Secondarily, I can't copy files into certain directories (c:\, c:\program files, c:\windows etc) because they are "protected." Again, I took ownership recursively of my entire system disk (amazing that this was even necessary....) and changed permissions to give me 'full control' over everything, recursively. Still having trouble with Win7 trusting me enough to let me put files where I want to put them. Is there a solution? Is this *my* computer or not? Last time I checked, my house didn't have a sysadmin with whom I had to get permission to change stuff on my PCs....

Thanks.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
08 Dec 2010   #2
xarden

Windows 7 Enterprise
 
 

Use "net use z: \\machine\c$ /user:machine\administrator"
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 Dec 2010   #3
Dzomlija

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tucansam View Post
I've been a Windows user since Windows 2.0 and have been using Win7 for about three weeks, so I will probably be posting a ton trying to get help as I slowly re-learn an OS that I have used for decades. Win7 is very, very different...

I am having major issues with drive mapping and permissions.
Windows 7 is not so much different from it's predecessors Vista and XP to make it unusable. Sure, most things have changed for the better, but the basic remain the same.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tucansam View Post
Re: drive mapping. I have the same user account with the same password on three XP and one Win7 system; this user is a member of each computer's administrators group. All computers are part of the same workgroup. XP can map drives to XP easily. Win7 cannot map drives to XP, and XP cannot map drives to Win7. I am used to the "net use z: \\machine\c$ /user:administrator" syntax and this has worked for me for many years. I am struggling to get this to work with Win7. I have read a dozen articles online but nothing I have seen works. Suggestions?
The reason being for this is that on Windows 7, the built-in user account "Administrator" is hidden and turned off. You should be using an account with another name anyway, one that you specifically created when you installed Windows 7.

The pre-configured root share C$, as found in XP and earlier systems, was never really protected very well. I remember in my LAN days how I used to use it to gain access to friends computers (even if they didn't have any shared folders), and have a look around their stuff that they thought no-one has access to.

With Vista and Windows 7, the C$ share is more protected by not allowing "Administrator" access, and permissions cannot be changed.
Permissions-image1.jpg


You ask for suggestions?

Share only those folders that you need to have shared, and grant appropriate access permissions to those shares.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tucansam View Post
Re: permissions. This is *my* system. I wrongly assumed Win7 would trust me enough to give me complete control over *my* computer. Sadly, it does not. I popped in an old SATA disk drive with some data on it, and couldn't even access it. Had to change ownership, change permissions... What a pain in the rear that was. Really? How is this forward thinking? Secondarily, I can't copy files into certain directories (c:\, c:\program files, c:\windows etc) because they are "protected." Again, I took ownership recursively of my entire system disk (amazing that this was even necessary....) and changed permissions to give me 'full control' over everything, recursively. Still having trouble with Win7 trusting me enough to let me put files where I want to put them. Is there a solution? Is this *my* computer or not? Last time I checked, my house didn't have a sysadmin with whom I had to get permission to change stuff on my PCs....

Thanks.
You have rightly discovered that "C:\Program Files", "C:\Program Files (x86)" and "C:\Windows" are protected folders. You are wrong, however, in having taken ownership and granting yourself full access to those folders, and you've achieved nothing but opening a pandora's box of problems that you may not have encountered yet. The protection of the aforementioned folders is there to help prevent unwarranted changes to the system by virus and malware programs.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

09 Dec 2010   #4
xarden

Windows 7 Enterprise
 
 

Agreed. Never share system folders. Best practice not to use Administrator account.
Furthermore, user machine\administrator is different to machine2\administrator so credentials administrator will simply not work.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Dec 2010   #5
James Colbert

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tucansam View Post
because they are "protected." Again, I took ownership recursively of my entire system disk (....) and changed permissions to give me 'full control' over everything, recursively.
Thanks.
As has been mentioned, this condition exposes your system to serious risk. A System Restore pre-dating the changes is expedient (and beneficial, mildly put...), IMO.


James
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Dec 2010   #6
Lee

Win 7 Pro x64, VM Win XP, Win7 Pro Sandbox, Kubuntu 11
 
 

tucansam, realizing you are new to Win 7, the best thing for you is to get out of the XP frame of mind. Yes there are some similarity to XP an 7, but they are also very different. Like a great many of the folks here on the Seven Forums we started working with 7 in the early beta period (before the public release), and we have learned the importance of the permissions set up my MS, and we have learned the problems that can be caused by removing said permissions.

The permissions were not put in to take away your right to control your computer's OS, but to strengthen the OS from outside attacks. These are thing that the beta testers brought to the for front, also businesses (large and small) were looking for ways to stem the possibilities of outside attacks from virus and malware, hence MS put in the permissions, thus establishing tighter security.

There is nothing saying you cannot control who gets permission to change things on your computer, however before you start changing the permissions ask yourself how important is it for these changes? What could happen if I make them?

Just some information that will hopefully help you in the future. . .Good Computing.

BTW, "Welcome to the Seven Forums." . . .
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Dec 2010   #7
Dzomlija

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by James Colbert View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by tucansam View Post
because they are "protected." Again, I took ownership recursively of my entire system disk (....) and changed permissions to give me 'full control' over everything, recursively.
Thanks.
As has been mentioned, this condition exposes your system to serious risk. A System Restore pre-dating the changes is expedient (and beneficial, mildly put...), IMO.


James
It's worth a shot to Tucansam to try a System Restore, but S.R. only works with the Registry and important system files, not NTFS Permissions?

I've always used
Code:
ICACLS C:\Folder\* /save aclbackupfilename
and
Code:
ICACLS C:\Folder\ /restore aclbackupfilename
to backup and restore security settings.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Dec 2010   #8
chev65

Windows 7 Ult, Windows 8.1 Pro,
 
 

The User folders are the ones you want to move files too, plenty of folders to choose from with predefined catagorys. Those are protected system files you were messing with and they aren't to be messed with.

And why on earth anyone would want to mess with remembering file access codes when you have an easy to use GUI for setting file permissions?

For full drive sharing you need to go into the Security tab and add Everyone to the permissions list. Although it's much safer from a security stand point to share the entire User folder these days. If you do that you won't even need to map the drive.

https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...ns.html?filter

How to map drives with Windows 7 tut below.

Map Network Drive and Disconnect Network Drive - Add or Remove
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Dec 2010   #9
James Colbert

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dzomlija View Post
It's worth a shot to Tucansam to try a System Restore, but S.R. only works with the Registry and important system files, not NTFS Permissions?

I've always used
Code:
ICACLS C:\Folder\* /save aclbackupfilename
and
Code:
ICACLS C:\Folder\ /restore aclbackupfilename
to backup and restore security settings.
Good point. I assumed that permissions were included. A search didn't turn up solid info, but the implication was no, SR won't restore permissions. In the process, I did find the links below that pertain to this issue:

Resetting NTFS files security and permission in Windows 7 lallous’ lab

How to use Xcacls.exe to modify NTFS permissions


Good call, Peter. When time permits, I'll be perusing those links myself.

James
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Dec 2010   #10
tucansam

win7
 
 

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I probably should have started using 7 during the RC, but I resisted because 2k and XP were getting the job done at the time, and under XP in particular, I was terribly efficient. My only problem was running out of RAM (with the 32-bit limit), otherwise I'd still be on XP today (I've read too many things about driver issues to consider XP 64, if it was a better build, I'd be running it)

Win7 was a necessary evil in order for me to enjoy huge amounts of RAM. Under XP, I never used pre-defined folders, the very first thing I did on any new system install was dump all the bloat and set things up the way *I* wanted them. I never used "My Documents" or "My Music" or "My Videos." I put stuff where I wanted it after creating a file structure that made sense to me, not some Redmond software engineer who thinks he can anticipate how I want my system configured. I realize that this is a business building a product for the lowest common denominators -- home and corporate users -- and that for 99% of their customers, Win7 as it stands now will work perfectly. But not for me. Win7 has crippled my efficiency, even something as simple as explorer.exe's file manager (which was perfect in XP) has changed, for the worse (how could you screw something up so simple, anyway?)

As far as locking down my system, fine, I understand the new features that salesmen can brag about in this day and age of spyware and other stuff. But I've been connected to the internet since before there was an internet, playing Interstellar Annihilation and using netmail at 300 baud, and have suffered exactly *zero* viruses and *two* "malware" programs that were easily cleaned with essentially no ill effects to the system other than a temporary annoyance. I do not use peer-to-peer file sharing, I don't download shareware, I am not addicted to torrents and porn sites, I don't play online games. My online habits are such that I feel relatively safe, and between twelve years of network admin and system admin work up until a recent career change, I feel pretty confident in securing my home network and systems. I appreciate Microsoft helping the average home user, but I'd like a little more freedom. Maybe I'm using the wrong product.

I have three desktops and a laptop, a media server, and a file server & camera controller. All I want is to have every machine see the disks of every other machine so I can manage files from any system in the house and automate backing up system images and sync files using scripts that I write to do so. I don't have a hundred employees to worry about, I don't need roaming profiles and fancy sharepoints (wth is a "library" anyway), I am not a corporation, and I'm not sharing a computer with a wife, six kids, the neighbor, a mother-in-law, and the dog. I also don't want my files to be lumped under some pretty 3D icon sitting on my desktop. I don't create folders for my files, I create DIRECTORIES. I want 100% control over my systems. Unhide hidden OS files. Show me file extensions. Windows classic theme with full path in the title bar. No retarded 3D effects on my desktop, this is a tool, not a toy. An easily accessible command prompt. 99% of my networking is done from the command line. I don't do well with GUIs, keyboard shortcuts are muscle memory and quickly become the faster, more efficient method. Windows 7 has taken away nearly all of my efficiency. Stuff doesn't live where it used to live. Major configuration options are gone. It takes twenty clicks to get somewhere where, under XP, I could get in three.

Give me XP with the ability to address 16GB RAM and I'd be happy, as long as I don't lose my hair trying to make drivers work. I just don't think I'm cut out for this Windows 7 thing. Using my computer for the last month has been an excruciating and aggravating experience every single day, not an enjoyable one. In fact, I've spent more time on my older (and much, much slower XP systems) than I have this fancy new system.

There are things I like, and things I hate. Right now the hate list is longer, but after resisting for so long, at least I'm giving it a chance. For now I'll keep plugging along until the "next big thing" rears its head. Then I'll probably be here posting the same exact questions all over again, after "they" attempt to fix what wasn't ever broken to begin with.

I'll see about restoring permissions, but as soon as Windows decides it won't let a member of the administrator group do something on a system that *I* own, I'm probably gonna be right back here pitching a fit again, heh.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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