New rig + Radeon 6950 = trouble

[RLapin]

As per title, getting nothing but trouble from this card.
The rig details should be in my profile (hopefully), I didn't analyze anything in-depth but it seems like all components are in place and compatible.

Issue(s):
Initially was getting BSODs on Windows login, fixed that with the 10.12a hotfix (apparently the only one that supports 6950 and it's not even listed on the XFX site).
Now BSODs are rare (I can still get them but it takes some effort) however that doesn't mean the GPU is working. Driver failures are still pretty common, although Windows does catch them and recovers.
Running any serious video app is impossible - Furmark won't even show a screen or window, just freezes everything permanently, some games "load" but "run" at less than 1 fps

What I did so far:
Reinstalled OS (at some point)
Reinstalled drivers (full clean before etc, etc)
Reseated GPU, tried connecting the monitor to either DVI out, tried putting the card into the second x16 slot on the mobo, no changes from either of those
Updated all other drivers (I think)
Played around with overvolting/overclocking to no avail (although flashing GPU BIOS to a 6970 and overclocking to that level made the system a lot more stable for some reason)
Ran Memtest and a cpu stress test (no problems)
Contacted XFX support, their current suggestion is to change RAM voltage to 1.6 from 1.5 (tried, useless).
Unfortunately I can't put this into another computer without taking out the PSU as well (which I really don't want to do) but I guess I could give it to a friend/co-worker to try out sometime this week.

Current leaning: Bad card, possibly some horrendous incompatibility to do with drivers but seems unlikely. Will wait for a day or two more, see if anyone comes up with anything smart and then either RMA or just return to Newegg for refund (then comes the choice of getting the same card or switching to nvidia)

I'm not sure if I actually got the old BSODs in this archive but will post it anyways, they were all the same, citing atikmpag.sys as the cause (although I might have accidentally deleted the dumps while cleaning)
Appreciate any input =)

 

[Johnathan Lyman]

Since it looks like you've tried almost everything.. have you installed the graphics drivers WITHOUT the Catalyst Control Center? atikmpag.sys is a CCC system file, very specifically and has no effect on the graphics drivers themselves. atikmpag.sys also runs in kernel mode (which is odd given Windows runs in user mode natively) and has been known to cause problems.

If not, I'd RMA it for a replacement first and see if your problem goes away. If it does, it was a bad card. If not, possibly something up with your motherboard or your PSU isn't giving enough clean power to your card.

 

[RLapin]

Edit: Turned on Aero just for kicks and got a ton of BSODs, here's the fresh info.

In regards to the driver install, I could try that, will have to fiddle with their installer.

 

[Johnathan Lyman]

Edit: Turned on Aero just for kicks and got a ton of BSODs, here's the fresh info.

In regards to the driver install, I could try that, will have to fiddle with their installer.

Here's a head start: https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/10-12_vista64_win7_64_dd.exe

Just the display driver.

I could also go into detail about tweaking Windows to give the GPU more time to respond throug the driver (default 2 seconds) and also give it more time for all threads to leave the driver (5 seconds) and if after 5 seconds all threads aren't gone it BSODs. But We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Unless you feel adventurous... (at your own risk) http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/display/wddm_timeout.mspx

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers
TdrDelay - delay time for GPU to respond
TdrDdiDelay - delay time for all threads to vacate the driver

 

[RLapin]

Well, installed just the driver, got a driver freeze within 5 minutes so it didn't help. I guess I could turn on Aero and see what happens...but unless it can help I see no point in doing it again, after all, it might not BSOD but still doesn't work properly...

 

[Johnathan Lyman]

I was discussing a similar situation with someone and their graphics card here and I think I'm coming to the same conclusion in your case as well (although they had a different card).

If you can, I'd RMA your graphics card since it's pretty new and shouldn't be past the warranty period, yet. There isn't anything else I can think of that could be causing the problem besides hardware.

 

[sygnus21]

Can you post a link to your RAM specs? And have you manually set the RAM to it's stated specs in the BIOS?

Let me know.

(although flashing GPU BIOS to a 6970 and overclocking to that level made the system a lot more stable for some reason)

tsk tsk tsk.... Always make sure an item is stable before overclocking or tweaking. This way you know it's not something you did.

 

[RLapin]

Can you post a link to your RAM specs? And have you manually set the RAM to it's stated specs in the BIOS?

Let me know.

(although flashing GPU BIOS to a 6970 and overclocking to that level made the system a lot more stable for some reason)

tsk tsk tsk.... Always make sure an item is stable before overclocking or tweaking. This way you know it's not something you did.

It was worse before the flash, became better after...I can always flash it back and enjoy three times the driver crash rate =)

I think my RAM was the 7-7-7 2*2Gig set, check newegg.com, DDR3

@John: Now comes the dilemma, stay with 6950 or move to nvidia...I love the flashable BIOS and price but it seems like ATI is generally less reliable.

 

[sygnus21]

I think my RAM was the 7-7-7 2*2Gig set, check newegg.com, DDR3

Actually you need to check as you need to know exactly what those settings are supposed to be.
And to be honest Newegg isn't exactly a reliable place to get such important info on your memory. You need to get this from the manufacturer!

Just trying to help you.

 

[Johnathan Lyman]

Can you post a link to your RAM specs? And have you manually set the RAM to it's stated specs in the BIOS?

Let me know.

(although flashing GPU BIOS to a 6970 and overclocking to that level made the system a lot more stable for some reason)

tsk tsk tsk.... Always make sure an item is stable before overclocking or tweaking. This way you know it's not something you did.

It was worse before the flash, became better after...I can always flash it back and enjoy three times the driver crash rate =)

I think my RAM was the 7-7-7 2*2Gig set, check newegg.com, DDR3

@John: Now comes the dilemma, stay with 6950 or move to nvidia...I love the flashable BIOS and price but it seems like ATI is generally less reliable.

This may be my personal opinion but I have a Radeon 6850 from HIS and I haven't had a single issue with it, whatsoever. For the $179 I paid for it (in comparison to the majority of the 6850s costing $200+) I didn't expect much but it performs like a champ. Borderlands maxed out, Far Cry 2 maxed out, WoW maxed out, Fallout: New Vegas maxed out (all on a 20" LCD 1600x900).

I wouldn't count ATI cards out completely just because you have one (possibly) bad card. You could easily have troubles like this with an nVidia card.

 

[sygnus21]

You are very correct JL, especially if the issue is elswhere.

 

[RLapin]

PC3-10660(10666) 1333MHz C6, C7 & C9 BLACK DRAGON DUAL CHANNEL - Products - GeIL Memory
There it is, I actually did not change anything in the BIOS, just let the MoBo deal with it, should I really be worried about setting everything to factory specs?
I think it's now running at 1.8V or so, so a bit over reqs.

 

[sygnus21]

OK, to be specific - you need to manually set the memory to run at whatever is posted on the modules.

Example: My Corsair modules are rated to run at 1600MHz, 8-8-8-20, 1.65v. Now, if I let my motherboard have it's way, the RAM will auto set to 1066MHz, 8-8-8-24, 1.50v!

Now, because my RAM use XMP (performance profiles built into the RAM) and my motherboard supports XMP, I can just hit a BIOS setting and the RAM will run at it's supposed specs, or I can manually set the specs, which I do because that's my preference.

Anyway back to your situation - if your RAM and MB supports XMP you can use that to set the RAM to it's optimized settings (I don't recommend XMP for overclockers) or you can manually set them.

You need to set the RAM to the specs printed on the modules, or use the info from the manufacturer.

After that, have a look at the BIOS to see what the RAM is running at, and also CPU-Z as shown in the Memory tab...

View attachment 132920

Not that this tab shows my memory running at 1600 (DDR 2 & 3 is dual channel memory so 2 x 800 = 1600), and also shows the timings used - 8-8-8-20-1

If we click on the SPD tab....

View attachment 132921

This shows the various ways the memory can be run with the appropiate timings and voltages. Notice for 1600MHz, 8-8-8-24, the voltage is 1.65 but the other volts are 1.50!

If you're overclocking and want to run your RAM at 1600MHz, you need to make sure the voltage supports that mode!

Again, manually set your memory to the manufaturer's specs!

Good luck.

 

[Johnathan Lyman]

This reminds me. I need to check my RAM. I don't think it's running at suggested speeds.

 

[RLapin]

OK, to be specific - you need to manually set the memory to run at whatever is posted on the modules.

Example: My Corsair modules are rated to run at 1600MHz, 8-8-8-20, 1.65v. Now, if I let my motherboard have it's way, the RAM will auto set to 1066MHz, 8-8-8-24, 1.50v!

Now, because my RAM use XMP (performance profiles built into the RAM) and my motherboard supports XMP, I can just hit a BIOS setting and the RAM will run at it's supposed specs, or I can manually set the specs, which I do because that's my preference.

Anyway back to your situation - if your RAM and MB supports XMP you can use that to set the RAM to it's optimized settings (I don't recommend XMP for overclockers) or you can manually set them.

You need to set the RAM to the specs printed on the modules, or use the info from the manufacturer.

After that, have a look at the BIOS to see what the RAM is running at, and also CPU-Z as shown in the Memory tab...

View attachment 132920

Not that this tab shows my memory running at 1600 (DDR 2 & 3 is dual channel memory so 2 x 800 = 1600), and also shows the timings used - 8-8-8-20-1

If we click on the SPD tab....

View attachment 132921

This shows the various ways the memory can be run with the appropiate timings and voltages. Notice for 1600MHz, 8-8-8-24, the voltage is 1.65 but the other volts are 1.50!

If you're overclocking and want to run your RAM at 1600MHz, you need to make sure the voltage supports that mode!

Again, manually set your memory to the manufaturer's specs!

Good luck.

That's a good point although currently everything is at stock so slight over-volting shouldn't hurt anything. I don't think this would help my problem though, would it? =)

 

[sygnus21]

Yeah this is easily overlooked by a lot of users. And one of the biggest mistakes inexperienced overclockers run into. Most assume the RAM will run at "rated" speed.

The problem is that almost all motherboards set "basic" requirements for "performance" RAM.

With today’s DDR2 memory specs it’s said anything above 1066MHz, 1.50 volts (i7 systems) is considered "performance" RAM. Since performance is considered overclocked, the BIOS won’t "automatically" set a overclocked condition unless you tell it, so it will use the old generic standards.

I'm not an expert here but this has something to do with the old memory standards most BIOS use today. That's one of the reasons for XMP profiles built into some RAM modules. If you have a BIOS that's able to read these profiles (XMP setting) once enabled, it will adjust the modules automatically to their performance settings. If not, you have to do it manually.

That’s why a lot of users are confounded as to why their 1600MHz RAM is running at 1066. It’s because the BIOS see the RAM as overclocked (since it’s not the standard) and won’t set it that way unless you tell it!

Also when you overclock and "force" the RAM to run at higher frequencies (higher than 1066) it will fail due to lack of voltage because it was set too low by the BIOS to begin with – again, above a certain voltage is considered overclocked.

That’s why I ask about the RAM when I see high overclocks and BSOD’s.

The best tool to use to see what your RAM is doing is CPU-Z - Not only will it tell you what the RAM is capable of doing (SPD Tab), it will show you what it’s running at (Memory Tab)

Hope my info helps.

 

[RLapin]

Thought I'd post in this thread so I don't have to make another one...
I just realized that I have a perfectly good GPU...in my laptop. It's one of those $2k laptops so I can take out every component. Now google didn't seem too enlightening but could I put that GPU into my desktop? I think it was a GTX8800M or smth like that.
The cooling in my case should be good...so it's a question of compatibility.

 

[Johnathan Lyman]

This is what the GeForce 8800M GT looks like:

In other words... won't work.

 

[RLapin]

Seems like I could stick it into one of the slots

 

[sygnus21]

This is what the GeForce 8800M GT looks like:

In other words... won't work.

Seems like I could stick it into one of the slots

You could try..... and destroy the card..... or damage your MB