American ISPs to launch massive copyright spying scheme on July 12

[FuturDreamz]

So don't choose left, don't choose right, but choose the middle.
I think it's time for a third political party.

 

[seekermeister]

It doesn't matter how many wings that bird has, it will still end up the same. The only difference is that it might do a bit more gyrations along the way.

 

[FuturDreamz]

It doesn't matter how many wings that bird has, it will still end up the same. The only difference is that it might do a bit more gyrations along the way.

That's an odd metaphor.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Then again Canadian parties are always changing, so I could be biased.

 

[seekermeister]

No less odd than your response to it. I'm not talking about whether we have the right to make changes to the government, I'm saying that it doesn't really make any difference in the long run as to how things will add up. It seems obvious that you don't understand what I'm getting at, but don't ask for an explanation, because that would require me to break the forum rules...more than I already have.

 

[SIW2]

Statler and Waldorf spring to mind.

 

[FuturDreamz]

No less odd than your response to it. I'm not talking about whether we have the right to make changes to the government, I'm saying that it doesn't really make any difference in the long run as to how things will add up. It seems obvious that you don't understand what I'm getting at, but don't ask for an explanation, because that would require me to break the forum rules...more than I already have.

Well that's a depressing way to look at life, saying that any changes would be meaningless.

Then again, there is that little roadblock where the media has the right to broadcast whatever they want, no matter how dishonest... Because of this, the parties are capable of purchasing media companies such as FOX to broadcast messages that promote their party at the expense of others, and any new entreat would be hit with an avalanche of bad media, effectively making them DOA. Part of this probably stems from the war propaganda of the World Wars, which trained the masses to be afraid of whatever the media told them to. Even then you still have many voters who believe the official party line without question. While you see both parties to be Yin and Yang and together achieve a happy medium, in reality they both act the same and only exaggerate the minor differences between them.
You use the metaphor of the left wing and the right wing as beating in alternate to make the bird fly, but what is the destination? What is all this flapping leading to? Is the bird truly flying? Or is it falling from a great height, unable to see the oncoming ground because it has it's eyes closed?

 

[seekermeister]

It is only depressing if you don't understand what follows the birds. There will come a time when these birds will become extinct, and things become the way that they should have been long ago. As to the manner of the bird's flight, it is very difficult to accurately describe. However, they have been aloft for a very long time. Some may mourn their passing, but not I.

 

[FuturDreamz]

I never said I would. The internet changed everything, and now everything changes.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Fortunately Politicians are either too busy feathering their own nests or are total technophobe Lawyers --so by the time any of this type of legislation could actually be brought into practice the whole concept would be out of date.

Even the latest Fibre Optic cable systems won't be around for all that much longer --in 20 years or even less we'll ALL be doing out internet via direct SATELLITE links - no cable, no ISP's etc etc. And monitoring ZILLIONS of transmissions from satellites --- well forget it.

Look at the rediculous measure the Movie and Music industries took to try and combat piracy --- 1) CSS DVD encryption so initially they thought DVD's weren't playable on computers -- VLC player soon made that piece of encryption redundant

2) Regional encoding -- VLC again to the rescue as is LEGAL software from Slysoft etc -- AnyDVD for example

3) "Un rippable" audio CD's -- didn't stand a hope - especially after Apple launched iTunes and the iPOD (whether or not you like iTunes --I don't BTW) ripping / mp3 playing and portable music became mainstream.

4) Fast internet so films etc can be watched anywhere without the need for a DVD release at all.

5) Preventing acces to Torrent sites -- doesn't work because as soon as you shut down one loads of others appear -- sometimes under total different guises where files are encrypted as well.

Etc etc.

The only thing you can do is to make the product cheap enough so Piracy isn't really worth the hassle.

I know plenty of people who have downloaded music from a "site" -- and then decide they want the original CD quality so they have actually BOUGHT the music -- They would never have heard of it otherwise !!

Look how much money Hollywood etc made last year alone. This year they are producing so much RUBBISH I doubt if Piracy will be a problem in any case this year whatever the laws passed.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[seekermeister]

Even the latest Fibre Optic cable systems won't be around for all that much longer --in 20 years or even less we'll ALL be doing out internet via direct SATELLITE links - no cable, no ISP's etc etc. And monitoring ZILLIONS of transmissions from satellites --- well forget it.

The plans of mice and men...

 

[jimbo45]

Even the latest Fibre Optic cable systems won't be around for all that much longer --in 20 years or even less we'll ALL be doing out internet via direct SATELLITE links - no cable, no ISP's etc etc. And monitoring ZILLIONS of transmissions from satellites --- well forget it.

The plans of mice and men...

Technology moves far faster than we normally predict it.

Who would have thought even in a few years CD's DVD's and even BLU Ray's are out of date with decent internet connection.

However not all old technology disappears -- for example even though the automobile has displaced horses we still ride them for fun and old VINYL records seem to be bucking the trend and are coming back into fashion.

However one piece of "Dinosaur" technology that would be impossible to police 100% or even partially is old fashioned "Snail Mail" --people could still send and exchange files change that way.

Email also is pretty near impossible to track globally especially if attachments were scrambled or even converted to scrambled ASCII text and converted back again by the receiver.

We used to do this back in the old days Mainframe days when old email systems (such as IBM's PROFS - PROFESSIONAL OFFICE SYSTEM) couldn't send binary data for example -- EXCEL spreadsheets and the like --EXCEL had just started back then and even from day 1 was incredibly popular compared with a predecessor known as 1-2-3 and later became Lotus gobbled up by IBM with LOTUS'S only surviving product --probably the worst piece of groupware on the planet - - LOTUS NOTES. !!

The sheer volume of email to police would probably require the entire population of the UNIVERSE to work on it !!!.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[lehnerus2000]

Fibre Optics are superior

Even the latest Fibre Optic cable systems won't be around for all that much longer --in 20 years or even less we'll ALL be doing out internet via direct SATELLITE links - no cable, no ISP's etc etc. And monitoring ZILLIONS of transmissions from satellites --- well forget it.

Fibre Optic links are far superior to satellite links (except for ease of coverage).

They are unaffected by:

• Solar Flares.
• Lightning.
• Radio interference.

Fibre Optic cables don't have to be replaced every few years like satellites.
Also, the data transmissions are harder to intercept.

Of course the Government could mandate the use of satellite links (for ease of spying).

Email also is pretty near impossible to track globally especially if attachments were scrambled or even converted to scrambled ASCII text and converted back again by the receiver.

All they have to do is ban encrypted email (e.g. any encrytped email packets are simply dropped by ISP firewall programs).
The US Government already restricts the level of encryption that you are legally allowed to use.

 

[FuturDreamz]

Even the latest Fibre Optic cable systems won't be around for all that much longer --in 20 years or even less we'll ALL be doing out internet via direct SATELLITE links - no cable, no ISP's etc etc. And monitoring ZILLIONS of transmissions from satellites --- well forget it.

Communicating With neutrinos | Neutrino Communication

 

[tootal2]

how are they going to stop people from renting a dvd from redbox for a 1$ and making a copy of it?

 

[jimbo45]

Even the latest Fibre Optic cable systems won't be around for all that much longer --in 20 years or even less we'll ALL be doing out internet via direct SATELLITE links - no cable, no ISP's etc etc. And monitoring ZILLIONS of transmissions from satellites --- well forget it.

Fibre Optic links are far superior to satellite links (except for ease of coverage).

They are unaffected by:

• Solar Flares.
• Lightning.
• Radio interference.

Fibre Optic cables don't have to be replaced every few years like satellites.
Also, the data transmissions are harder to intercept.

Of course the Government could mandate the use of satellite links (for ease of spying).

Email also is pretty near impossible to track globally especially if attachments were scrambled or even converted to scrambled ASCII text and converted back again by the receiver.

All they have to do is ban encrypted email (e.g. any encrytped email packets are simply dropped by ISP firewall programs).
The US Government already restricts the level of encryption that you are legally allowed to use.

How can you ban "Encrypted email" -- you'd have to intercept and analyse every single email -- not really possible.

In any case a Plain text email in Icelandic or Cantonese for that matter might appear as "Encrypted" to some servers anyway.

What about the "One time pad" method -- the encrypted text can look just like a piece of Bog standard English too.

Here's an explanation -- warning an irritating advert pops up midway but click the skip this advert popup to carry on reading.

What is one-time pad? - Definition from Whatis.com

Intercepting every possible email won't work in any shape or form either.

cheers
jimbo

 

[ignatzatsonic]

But the media is by law supposed to be truthful

Really?

Tell me more about this law.

Then tell me why the media should obey it.

Everywhere I look, the media is as culpable for the decline and fall as the government or any politician or political party you care to name.

 

[pparks1]

failure to respond to this type of situation will lead the music/movie industry to believe that they have won this round of the battle and embolden them to go this direction again at will.

So, the argument is that people should just continue to take this content free of charge from the web, or via whatever method they currently use?

No different for the idea that eBooks should need to be repurchased by libraries every 25 loans

I have not heard this argument nor do I understand it either. It's just like video rentals, the store purchases, and can rent till the disc is damaged, stolen or not wanted.

Lets look at new releases of eBooks for example.....Hardback book $20 - $25, paperback $8 - $15, eBook about $1 less than the printed book....there is no excuse for this practice considering the cost savings for not printing it or shipping it, but it is getting worse all the time.....just check on books that you would like to read and you will see this trend accelerating.

With respect to ebooks, you still have to pay the author, you still have to pay the editor, you still have to have legal representation..thus there are still significant costs to ebooks. For me personally, I buy ebooks and it's the convenience of having to not store physical copies and being able to carry dozens, hundreds or thousands of books on my Kindle wherever I go. Also, with multiple Kindles on my account, we can have multiple family members reading the same book if we want, without having to purchase physical copies.

This viewpoint that all bittorrenting is bad is way off.

Nobody said all bit torrenting was bad. As you stated, Linux distros and such are almost always downloaded via torrents. it's the best way to go. But to try to pretend that torrenting is not used as a mechanism for mass piracy is just plain silly. It's very heavily used to transfer and distributed content that otherwise costs people money and that's the problem.

I had my ISP throttle my bandwit before... and i really don't want to be affected by this again just because the industries are so paranoid.

I don't want to be throttled either. But it's the people who horde and pirate all of this content that are really to blame. I'm not sure how you can call the industries paranoid, obviously they want to make money. Why should some people be able to so easily just take this content without paying anything for it? If you don't feel a movie or music is worth the price, just skip it. Taking it for free, is not a reasonable solution.

The only thing you can do is to make the product cheap enough so Piracy isn't really worth the hassle.

I don't think there is a cheap enough price point? CD's used to be over $20, now they are about 1/2 that price, but piracy is still a problem. Music tracks can be had for $0.99 at iTunes, but yet people still download some of this music from free sites because they would rather save $1. Who wants to spend any amount of money if getting it free is so easy. That's the whole point of measures such as these, make the process more difficult and troublesome so that people get irritated with the process and instead simply buy the content.

I know plenty of people who have downloaded music from a "site" -- and then decide they want the original CD quality so they have actually BOUGHT the music -- They would never have heard of it otherwise !!

That's the classic argument. But I think I know more people who downloaded music for free and simply listened for free forever because they didn't see a point in buying.

Look how much money Hollywood etc made last year alone. This year they are producing so much RUBBISH I doubt if Piracy will be a problem in any case this year whatever the laws passed.

how are they going to stop people from renting a dvd from redbox for a 1$ and making a copy of it?

The way I look at that scenario is that RedBox bought that movie. And you paid the $1.xx to rent the movie. Making a copy of your own and giving it to friends or putting it into your collection so you never again have to rent it or buy it, is taking advantage of the system. However, I think downloading it outright without going through Redbox or a rental store is worse as you really are taking it for nothing.

 

[FuturDreamz]

But the media is by law supposed to be truthful

Really?

Tell me more about this law.

Then tell me why the media should obey it.

Everywhere I look, the media is as culpable for the decline and fall as the government or any politician or political party you care to name.

Fox News' Lies Keep Them Out of Canada
Note that this is an American article, which is why the language isn't neutral.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Fox News' Lies Keep Them Out of Canada
Note that this is an American article, which is why the language isn't neutral.

Thanks for that link. I had not heard of this Canadian law.

A quote from that link:

Canada's Radio Act requires that "a licenser may not broadcast ... any false or misleading news."

Hmmmm...........Gee, I wonder who decides what is "false and misleading"? Hmmmm.......let me think about that. Hmmmm......

Has anyone been locked up for violation of this law?

The law would be a requirement for tyranny, so I can understand why it has its supporters.

For the sake of Canadians and democracy, I would hope it is widely ignored.

 

[FuturDreamz]

Fox News' Lies Keep Them Out of Canada
Note that this is an American article, which is why the language isn't neutral.

Thanks for that link. I had not heard of this Canadian law.

A quote from that link:

Canada's Radio Act requires that "a licenser may not broadcast ... any false or misleading news."

Hmmmm...........Gee, I wonder who decides what is "false and misleading"? Hmmmm.......let me think about that. Hmmmm......

Has anyone been locked up for violation of this law?

The law would be a requirement for tyranny, so I can understand why it has its supporters.

For the sake of Canadians and democracy, I would hope it is widely ignored.

To be fair, the law specifies "... knowingly broadcast any false or misleading news"
Last I checked the CRTC is the regulator that enforces this rule, and has the ability to revoke a news company's right to broadcast. I'm not aware of any incident where the CRTC had actually invoked this ability. Probably because the beauty of this law is that major lies would get caught fairly quickly, so no use trying.

Such a law in the USA (properly followed and enforced) would make a night and day difference in politics. Ironically, such a law would have a snowball in hell's chance of being passed in the USA.